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Pastor Shot During Church Service

Huck

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Mar 27, 2008
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Evanston, Wyoming, USA
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Still,so many pastors and church members continue to insist on being naive, ignorant or in denial -- and therefore unarmed. And even if SOME FEW members actually do carry, the vast majority of the other church members do not, still refusing to take personal responsibility for their own protection and unfairly expecting other (armed) members to step in harm's way to protect them...THAT is not right, either. Shame on them.

Sadly, alot of people are like that. They wont take responsibility for their own safety.

And frankly IMO, those who will not defend themselves deserve the results...I have no sympathy for anyone who won't take responsibility fortheir own defense or at least makean effort to do so...rather than just HOPE something bad won't happen (leave that to the liberals as it is one ofTHEIR characteristic traits, as is leaving their protection up to others).

And if a armed citizen was to save the life of a lib I guarentee you that the lib would attempt to villanize his benefacter. That's another of the lib'scharacteristic traits. Look athow the lib media attempted to villianize Jeanne Assam.

...when my wife first became aware I carry a .45 to church, she was "righteously indignant"..."I believe that GOD can take care of trouble at HIS CHURCH", she delivered....I replied "He sure CAN, and He'll use good men armed with guns to do it!!!"...nothing remotely faithless or un-Christian about being willing and prepared to stop evil wherever it rears its ugly head....

Amen to that! God helps those who help themselves. David had God on his side when he fought Goliath yet he still needed that sling to do the job.
 

jhow1nm2

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I legally concealed carry in NM in a church two sundays ago (sick the next two). I don't have my concealed carry permit yet....it's in route. I had my smart carry holster, G27 in one pocket of the holster, and a loaded mag. in the other. The shooter would have been full of holes in less time than it would have taken someone to call 911 inside the building. In NM, you can legally carry concealed (if your gun is not loaded), into most places (some exceptions, but churches are not forbidden). With God's help to steady my hand and my eye, this will not happen on my watch where I attend.
 

MI-copperhead

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More proof that Gun Free Zones are are a murder's best friend. Another Suicide Bangman strikes but only one victim because his gun jams. I wonder how many others he would have killed had it not. All the more reason Michigan's legislature need to act on pending legislation to recind the GFZ's at the veryleast for concealed holders.
 

6L6GC

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as a christian and preacher of the gospel since 1980 I have been amazed at the head in the sand approach most christians have about self defense. Jesus was not the limp wristed, milque toast "pacifist" that most make him out to be.

He twice DROVE the money changers from the temple with a whip and in Luke 22:36 he taught his followers that it was more important to be armed than to have a coat to protect one from the elements.


edited to correct one of the typos
 

Hammer

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The more I think about this, the more it adds to the pro-gun position. "If" IL had right to carry law, this could have been prevented. Without it, it could NOT have reasonably been prevented. A gun jam limited the shooter's terror. That said, it is very doubtful Obammie's home turf is likely to change their position.
 

Decoligny

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Dahwg wrote:
I am the Senior Associate pastor at my church and I'm ALWAYS carrying. When I'm not preaching, I position myself tactically- ready to protect the sheep (not a derrogatory term when used to refer to the congregants). When it's my turn to preach, nothing changes- I'm armed and ready.

There is absolutely no theological or ethical disassociation with being a man of God and being armed. The commandment thou shall not murder Ex 20:13 "Thou shall not murder"actually requires every lawful means of preserving life and does not enjoin the believer from taking a life when justified. Taken to its logicalconclusionit can be argued that failure to stopa violent criminal would be sinful.
Shortly after the 10 Commandments is the following scripture: Exodus 22:2 "If a thief be found breaking in, and he be smitten so that he dies, there shall be no bloodguiltiness for him."

The most valuable thing that God has given is life. For anyone to try to steal itmakes them a thief.If I catch someone trying to take my life, and I smite him with a high velocity hollow point round, and they just happen to die because of it, God holds me guiltless of thier death.

I will take whatever verbal abuse/insult (slap)someone throws my way for the sake of the Gospel, and I will turn the other cheek. I will not however sit idly by and let them steal my life.

Decoligny, Ordained Minister of the Gospel of Christ
 

Dustin

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Lake Charles Area, Louisiana, USA
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Decoligny wrote:
Dahwg wrote:
I am the Senior Associate pastor at my church and I'm ALWAYS carrying. When I'm not preaching, I position myself tactically- ready to protect the sheep (not a derrogatory term when used to refer to the congregants). When it's my turn to preach, nothing changes- I'm armed and ready.

There is absolutely no theological or ethical disassociation with being a man of God and being armed. The commandment thou shall not murder Ex 20:13 "Thou shall not murder"actually requires every lawful means of preserving life and does not enjoin the believer from taking a life when justified. Taken to its logicalconclusionit can be argued that failure to stopa violent criminal would be sinful.
Shortly after the 10 Commandments is the following scripture: Exodus 22:2 "If a thief be found breaking in, and he be smitten so that he dies, there shall be no bloodguiltiness for him."

The most valuable thing that God has given is life. For anyone to try to steal itmakes them a thief.If I catch someone trying to take my life, and I smite him with a high velocity hollow point round, and they just happen to die because of it, God holds me guiltless of thier death.

I will take whatever verbal abuse/insult (slap)someone throws my way for the sake of the Gospel, and I will turn the other cheek. I will not however sit idly by and let them steal my life.

Decoligny, Ordained Minister of the Gospel of Christ
Amen
 

Decoligny

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markand wrote:
The meaning of important Bible passages has been twisted over the years to support all kinds of nonsense, and left-wing pastors have led the charge. I don’t know the biblical theology or doctrine of this pastor or church, only that they are of the Baptist persuasion. The last two Baptist pastors I have had have both encouraged me to carry my sidearm to church.

The sixth commandment (Exodus 20:13) is translated into English in the King James Version of the Bible as: “Thou shalt not kill.” Now that sounds pretty black and white. Don’t kill. Anything. Anytime. For any reason, even to save your sorry rear end, or your pastor’s life.

The Hebrew word translated in the King James translation of the Bible (KJV) as “kill” is actually a word that denotes the taking of life in an illegal, immoral or criminal manner. The meaning of the word “kill” in modern English is quite broad and does not necessarily indicate a criminal act (“The vegetarian killed a head of lettuce for his salad”). A more precise and correct translation of the sixth commandment reads in modern English: “You shall not murder” (New International Version, NIV, and other translations). The word “murder” in modern English is quite different from the word “kill.” Murder requires criminal intent, and is the criminal, willful, unjustified taking of a human life, something that is clearly wrong. “But if a man schemes and kills another man deliberately, take him away from my altar and put him to death (Exodus 21:14).” God apparently doesn’t have any problem with the death penalty for murderers, either.

In other passages, the Bible instructs us that killing in defense of self or our family is fully justified. “If a thief is caught breaking in and is struck so that he dies, the defender is not guilty of bloodshed.” (Exodus 22:2).

Nehemiah records that workers routinely carried weapons for protection during the rebuilding of the wall around Jerusalem. “…Those who carried materials did their work with one hand and held a weapon in the other, [suP]18[/suP] and each of the builders wore his sword at his side as he worked... (Nehemiah 4: 17 – 18).”

One of the most direct passages in the Bible supporting our right and duty to defend ourselves is found in Luke 22:36. Here, just before Christ was arrested, He told His disciples “He who has no sword should sell his coat and buy one.” This is no small instruction. Most people living in this time didn’t have closets full of coats and shoes and clothes like we do today. Telling someone to “sell his coat” could very likely have entailed a significant sacrifice, particularly for Christ’s disciples, who generally left behind everything they had to follow Him. Christ appears to be telling His disciples that having and carrying a sword, a personal weapon, a means of self-defense, is important enough that, if necessary, they should sell the clothes off their back in order to do so. It is perhaps equivalent to being told today to “sell your only car and go buy a gun”.

My prayers are with the pastor’s family, friends and congregation. An armed person in the congregation might or might not have had time to make a difference. But they would have had a chance.
One thing that a lot of people don't consider when reading this passage is that Judea was under Roman occupation at the time. The population of the lands under Roman occupation were not generally allowed to carry weapons of war (swords & spears). So Jesus was telling them to go out and buy weapons that were probably considered illegal "assault weapons".
 

MetalChris

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Source
Pastors Shocked by Illinois Church Shooting

Casey Ferrand

Created: March 8, 2009 09:13 PM
Modified: March 8, 2009 09:13 PM

A shooting at an Illinois church has some Shreveport pastors shocked and taking a look at security at their own churches.

Shreveport ministers Arron Dobynes and Larry Brandon say it's tragic to hear a fellow minister has been shot to death in front of horrified parishoners.

As a safety precaution both men say they have security installed in their Churches. Brandon also keeps a group of men he calls keepers of the temple nearby.

The Christian Security Network is a national organization that gives security planning and training to churches. A spokesman with the group says they have tracked 139 incidents in 31 states against christian churches, schools and ministries, in the first two months of 2009 alone.

The organization also issued a statement saying these incidents are not going to stop and can occur anywhere, at any time. The only recourse that churches have is to acknowledge that it can happen to them and to be prepared.
Those fancy security cameras will be able to capture the gore in high resolution! :celebrate

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :cuss: :cuss: :cuss: :cuss: :cuss:

Morons.
 

wylde007

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Jan 23, 2009
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Our value-packed programme will give you all of the tools you need to accurately and effectively document any and all homicides that occur in your church.

Indeed.
 

Dahwg

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Feb 22, 2008
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Tucson, Arizona, USA
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Any security plan is incomplete without at least one armed man (or woman) with the training and willingness to stop an active shooter.
 

Sonora Rebel

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Gone
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'Heard this Sunday morning.... 'Went to church that afternoon heeled (CC) first time in my life. 'Never thought it necessary... I was mistaken. :banghead: It's ALWAYS necessary. I'll never go to church unarmed again.
 
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