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Thread: Scratched off ID number on Gun!!

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    Scratched off ID number on Gun!!

    Hey my older brother who's 26 can go into a gun shop and buy a gun with out a problem, but he found a great deal on a GLOCK40 for like $275 some guy was selling, so he just got that one, and this past week he notice where the ID number's were scratched off of it, he called the guy about it and he said he never notice it, because he had got it from one other guy. But what can he do about it as far as putting it in his name, IF YOU CAN HELP Please DO!! or if you have any idea's..

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    fire_man2340 wrote:
    Hey my older brother who's 26 can go into a gun shop and buy a gun with out a problem, but he found a great deal on a GLOCK40 for like $275 some guy was sailing, so he just got that one, and this past week he notice where the ID number's were scathed off of it, he called the guy about it and he said he never notice it, because he had got it from one other guy. But what can he do about it as far as putting it in his name, IF YOU CAN HELP Please DO!! or if you have any idea's..
    I'm sure someone with more knowledge can answer this more thoroughly.

    My quick glance at the Code of Virginia showed me that it is illegal to remove or deface the serial number on a gun, but I couldn't find any law against possession or ownership of a gun that had a defaced serial number.

    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...cod+18.2-311.1

    Surely you must realize that no good can come of this. It doesn't exactly take a rocket scientist to figure out that there is bound to be bad news associated with this firearm.

    IANAL, but you should probably talk to one to see how best to handle this situation!

    TFred


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    I would turn it into the police department and prepare for questions about who I got it from and potentially where I was at what time and date, and yeah.. consult with a lawyer first.

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    fire_man2340 wrote:
    Hey my older brother who's 26 can go into a gun shop and buy a gun with out a problem, but he found a great deal on a GLOCK40 for like $275 some guy was sailing, so he just got that one, and this past week he notice where the ID number's were scathed off of it, he called the guy about it and he said he never notice it, because he had got it from one other guy. But what can he do about it as far as putting it in his name, IF YOU CAN HELP Please DO!! or if you have any idea's..
    when you say "sailing", you mean "selling", right?

    because for a second there, I thought maybe your brother got it from a Sailor.

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    A Glock for $275 with a serial # removed? Turn it in. Lawyer up first.
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

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    This is a problem, yes. It's a federal crime (and probably a state one everywhere also) to be in possession of a firearm with a defaced/obliterated serial number - q.v. sec 478.34 USC.

    -ljp

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    yea i mean "selling" lol

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    Legba wrote:
    This is a problem, yes. It's a federal crime (and probably a state one everywhere also) to be in possession of a firearm with a defaced/obliterated serial number - q.v. sec 478.34 USC.

    -ljp
    Ah thanks, I couldn't find anything like that in the Code of Virginia.

    Here is the text:

    § 478.34 Removed, obliterated, or altered serial number.

    No person shall knowingly transport, ship, or receive in interstate or foreign commerce any firearm which has had the importer’s or manufacturer’s serial number removed, obliterated, or altered, or possess or receive any firearm which has had the importer’s or manufacturer’s serial number removed, obliterated, or altered and has, at any time, been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce.

    [T.D. ATF–313, 56 FR 32508, July 17, 1991]
    They are using the Interstate Commerce clause here again. How many laws would suddenly become null and void if that clause were removed?

    Now here's a question... I know some firearms have a second copy of the serial number in a less conspicuous place, if that second copy is still there, does this federal law apply? How does one find out where this second copy is, so they can check for it?

    TFred

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    So the only thing he can do is turn it in to the police, and wait. would he beable to get it back from them after they get done doing what ever they have to do with it,or is he just out of the money and the gun?

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    fire_man2340 wrote:
    So the only thing he can do is turn it in to the police, and wait. would he beable to get it back from them after they get done doing what ever they have to do with it,or is he just out of the money and the gun?
    What part of "It's a Federal crime to possess a gun with a defaced serial number" isn't making sense?



    TFred

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    when he first bought the glock he sine a number on the side whereit discharger's the shell's , that's what he thought was the serial #, but then you look on the side of the gun you can see where it was Scathed Off, this is his 1st gun he really dont know any thing.

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    Glocks have three locations for their serial numbers: the barrel, the slide, and the frame. Check them all.


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    I think Glock triple-stamps serial numbers - one on the barrel, one on the slide,and one on an aluminum tab on the underside of the frame by the muzzle. Still, I would wager that ATF would interpret defacing of any of them as a deliberate attempt to obscure the identity/origin of the firearm (you can change out the barrels and slides easily enough).

    The aforementioned federal law does say "knowingly," but I think you will find ignorance an unworkable defense (especially since acknowledging the condition of the gun in a public forum). If you turn it over to the cops, they will keep it and not pay compensation. If you get caught with it, you're liable tobe prosecuted.

    I could call for a ruling from the feds, but they take enough of my weird legal/informational calls as it is. Call your nearest ATF branch for clarification, but I'm not hopeful that there's a way to legally sanitize this piece. Then again, I could be wrong - maybe you only need one intact. I certainly have franken-pistols with mixed and matched components. I think I record the number from the frame as the default serial, and note the others in my records elsewhere.

    -ljp

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    Regular Member Sonora Rebel's Avatar
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    I'd suggest 'eat' the $250... disassemble the pistol and toss the parts off several different bridges.Chalk it up as a lesson learned.

    Police contact at this point would be futile... and possibly put ya in the jackpot for a number of reasons. (Buying a handgun... no FFL... S/N obliterated... prob'ly a stolen weapon...) but you know that already. If a deal seems too good to be true... it prob'ly isn't.

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    IANAL, but IMHO

    If he did not have a sailor involved before, he needs to get one involved now, because unless he turns it in to the police with LOTS of explanationshe will need a sailor to help him "deep 6" this free ticket to prison.




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    fire_man2340 wrote:
    when he first bought the glock he sine a number on the side whereit discharger's the shell's , that's what he thought was the serial #, but then you look on the side of the gun you can see where it was Scathed Off, this is his 1st gun he really dont know any thing.
    You make it difficult to tell what actually happened.



    1) What exactly is "sine a number?"

    2) What is "Scathed Off?"
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

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    wrightme wrote:
    fire_man2340 wrote:
    when he first bought the glock he sine a number on the side whereit discharger's the shell's , that's what he thought was the serial #, but then you look on the side of the gun you can see where it was Scathed Off, this is his 1st gun he really dont know any thing.
    You make it difficult to tell what actually happened.



    1) What exactly is "sine a number?"

    2) What is "Scathed Off?"
    My guess is #1 is "seen a number"
    ---

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    "What is "Scathed Off?"


    Scratched or scrubbed off?

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    Fire_man2340,

    Based on what others have said, Glocks have the serial number in three spots. On the below the ejection port, on the chamber portion of the barrel (ejection port side), and on the frame in the dust cover area.

    Two of the serial numbers are readily visible in this picture.

    ETA: Which set of numbers are scratched off?
    ---

  20. #20
    Regular Member Sonora Rebel's Avatar
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    Doesn't matter how many numbers it has... This pistol had an attempted obliteration of a S/N. That in itself raises the RED Flag. The gun is most very likely stolen. 'Possibly used in a criminal act... up to and including murder. I would assume immediately that the gun is HOT. It was bought 'on the street'... which is another crime. Get rid of it! I mean... don't sell it... destroy it.(OR) Wipe your prints off it... put it in a baggie and mail it to the local cop shop from out of state somewhere. No Fed-Ex... use stamps 'n drop it in a mailbox. Wear gloves when handling the stampsand package. DO NOT KEEP THE GUN!

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    Sonora Rebel wrote:
    Doesn't matter how many numbers it has... This pistol had an attempted obliteration of a S/N. That in itself raises the RED Flag. The gun is most very likely stolen. 'Possibly used in a criminal act... up to and including murder. I would assume immediately that the gun is HOT. It was bought 'on the street'... which is another crime. Get rid of it! I mean... don't sell it... destroy it. (OR) Wipe your prints off it... put it in a baggie and mail it to the local cop shop from out of state somewhere. No Fed-Ex... use stamps 'n drop it in a mailbox. Wear gloves when handling the stampsand package. DO NOT KEEP THE GUN!
    'Bought on the street' is only illegal if a law exists to prohibit such. If this happened in VA, it would have been perfectly legal to conduct a private (non-commercial) transaction.

    But yeah, I'd have not bought it if I saw a SN was scratched off / obliterated.

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    Sonora Rebel wrote:
    It was bought 'on the street'... which is another crime....No Fed-Ex... use stamps 'n drop it in a mailbox. Wear gloves when handling the stampsand package. DO NOT KEEP THE GUN!
    What crime is involved in buying a firearm off of the street? Private sales are perfectly legal.

    Mailing a handgun in the US Mail is a federal crime unless you are an FFL dealer.


    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

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    Not too sure about following the advice of throwing it off a bridge either...

    How many times have you watched a crime documentary in which someone was tied up/connected to a crime by being seen throwing something into water? Not too sure that dropping it in a mailbox would be the best option either, being that it is a federal crime.

    Sounds like those two bits of advice would lead to even more suspicion on your brother about being involved with anything than if he lawyered up and came forward about how he really came to aquire it.

    I hope it's not just me that those ideas appear very sketchy to.

  25. #25
    Regular Member Sonora Rebel's Avatar
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    OK... buy whatever ya want... wherever ya want. Keep the pistol... great price... I don't freakin' care.

    Not somethin' I'd even consider if I was snotslingin', kneewalkin' drunk.

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