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Thread: City of Wayne Ordinance

  1. #1
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    Being new to the open carry movement, I have just started doing my own research. I thought the first logical step was start digging around in my own backyard. This is what I found.

    690.04 CARRYING CONCEALED WEAPONS.
    (a) No person shall carry a firearm or dangerous weapon on his or her person or within or upon any vehicle, concealed or otherwise, except as otherwise specifically provided for in this section, on any of the streets or other public places in the City or on any private property frequented or visited by the public for purposes of education, recreation, amusement, entertainment, sports or shopping, or providing or receiving services.

    (b) For the purpose of this section, "firearm" means any device or part of a device, by whatever name known, which is designed or readily converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive, expansion of gas or air, or escape of gas or air. "Dangerous weapon" means any article or device which is designed or reasonably adapted for use as an offensive, dangerous or deadly weapon.

    (c) The provisions of this section shall not apply to members of the Armed Forces, National Guard or other employees of the Federal Government, the states and their political subdivisions who are required to carry firearms as part of their official duties and who are engaged in the performance of their official duties, or to a person who possesses a duly authorized license or permit to do so.

    (d) This section shall not apply to the transportation of an unloaded weapon which is broken down, enclosed in a case, carried in the trunk of a vehicle or otherwise inaccessible from the interior of the vehicle.

    (Ord. 26-A-7. Passed 7-2-85.)

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but section "A" covering carry, would fall under Michigan pre-emption and therefore be unenforcable?


    I would also like some recommendations as to how i can bring this to the attention of my city officials, if indeed I have a point.

    Thanks, Ron

  2. #2
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    RPG wrote:
    Being new to the open carry movement, I have just started doing my own research. I thought the first logical step was start digging around in my own backyard. This is what I found.

    690.04 CARRYING CONCEALED WEAPONS.
    (a) No person shall carry a firearm or dangerous weapon on his or her person or within or upon any vehicle, concealed or otherwise, except as otherwise specifically provided for in this section, on any of the streets or other public places in the City or on any private property frequented or visited by the public for purposes of education, recreation, amusement, entertainment, sports or shopping, or providing or receiving services.

    (b) For the purpose of this section, "firearm" means any device or part of a device, by whatever name known, which is designed or readily converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive, expansion of gas or air, or escape of gas or air. "Dangerous weapon" means any article or device which is designed or reasonably adapted for use as an offensive, dangerous or deadly weapon.

    (c) The provisions of this section shall not apply to members of the Armed Forces, National Guard or other employees of the Federal Government, the states and their political subdivisions who are required to carry firearms as part of their official duties and who are engaged in the performance of their official duties, or to a person who possesses a duly authorized license or permit to do so.

    (d) This section shall not apply to the transportation of an unloaded weapon which is broken down, enclosed in a case, carried in the trunk of a vehicle or otherwise inaccessible from the interior of the vehicle.

    (Ord. 26-A-7. Passed 7-2-85.)

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but section "A" covering carry, would fall under Michigan pre-emption and therefore be unenforcable?


    I would also like some recommendations as to how i can bring this to the attention of my city officials, if indeed I have a point.

    Thanks, Ron
    There are a few threads on this subject. You are correct the ordinance in part is illegal. I recommend you send a letter to the city manager/mayor/clerk (from their website) and inform them that the ordinance is illegal and that you want them to repeal that section that is preempted by state law. Below is the basic format I use. Simple, I include the ordinance in question, the preemption statute summary and the court of appeals case.

    Dear Mayor xxxx:

    Looking thought your ordinances I discovered this one (below). Under the 1990 state preemption law this ordinance is unenforceable in regards to firearm possession and is misleading to the people of East Lansing and other citizens. I am requesting you amend this offending ordinance within 90 days. Failure to amend this ordinance would be considered an act of malfeasance as it willfully misinforms the public of what is and is not allowed in the city ofWayne.
    Thank You,

    Your name here

    In 1990, the Michigan legislature enacted MCL 123.1102 which provides, in pertinent part: A local unit of government shall not impose special taxation on, enact or enforce any ordinance or regulation pertaining to, or regulate in any other manner the ownership, registration, purchase, sale, transfer, transportation, or possession of pistols or other firearms, ammunition for pistols or other firearms, or components of pistols or other firearms, except as otherwise provided by federal law or a law of this state.

    THE[/b]MICHIGAN APPEALS COURTCONCLUDED:
    April 29, 2003
    9:10 am. v No. 242237 MCGRO vs Ferndale.

    In sum, we conclude that § 1102 is a statute that specifically imposes a prohibition on local units of government from enacting and enforcing any ordinances or regulations pertaining to the transportation and possession of firearms, and thus preempts any ordinance or regulation of a local unit of government concerning these areas. ][/b]

    [/b]Further, we conclude that the specific language of the 2000 amendments to MCL 28.421 et seq., particularly §§ 5c and 5o, which were adopted more than a decade after the enactment of § 1102, do not repeal § 1102 or otherwise reopen this area to local regulation of the carrying of firearms.17 Accordingly, we hold that the Ferndale ordinance is preempted by state law and, consequently, we reverse. [/b]

    City of Wayne ORDINANCE in question:

    690.04 CARRYING CONCEALED WEAPONS.
    (a) No person shall carry a firearm or dangerous weapon on his or her person or within or upon any vehicle, concealed or otherwise, except as otherwise specifically provided for in this section, on any of the streets or other public places in the City or on any private property frequented or visited by the public for purposes of education, recreation, amusement, entertainment, sports or shopping, or providing or receiving services.


    (b) For the purpose of this section, "firearm" means any device or part of a device, by whatever name known, which is designed or readily converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive, expansion of gas or air, or escape of gas or air. "Dangerous weapon" means any article or device which is designed or reasonably adapted for use as an offensive, dangerous or deadly weapon.

    (c) The provisions of this section shall not apply to members of the Armed Forces, National Guard or other employees of the Federal Government, the states and their political subdivisions who are required to carry firearms as part of their official duties and who are engaged in the performance of their official duties, or to a person who possesses a duly authorized license or permit to do so.

    (d) This section shall not apply to the transportation of an unloaded weapon which is broken down, enclosed in a case, carried in the trunk of a vehicle or otherwise inaccessible from the interior of the vehicle.

    (Ord. 26-A-7. Passed 7-2-85.)



    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  3. #3
    Regular Member Bronson's Avatar
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    Venator wrote:
    RPG wrote:
    Being new to the open carry movement, I have just started doing my own research. I thought the first logical step was start digging around in my own backyard. This is what I found.

    690.04 CARRYING CONCEALED WEAPONS.
    (a) No person shall carry a firearm or dangerous weapon on his or her person or within or upon any vehicle, concealed or otherwise, except as otherwise specifically provided for in this section, on any of the streets or other public places in the City or on any private property frequented or visited by the public for purposes of education, recreation, amusement, entertainment, sports or shopping, or providing or receiving services.

    (b) For the purpose of this section, "firearm" means any device or part of a device, by whatever name known, which is designed or readily converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive, expansion of gas or air, or escape of gas or air. "Dangerous weapon" means any article or device which is designed or reasonably adapted for use as an offensive, dangerous or deadly weapon.

    (c) The provisions of this section shall not apply to members of the Armed Forces, National Guard or other employees of the Federal Government, the states and their political subdivisions who are required to carry firearms as part of their official duties and who are engaged in the performance of their official duties, or to a person who possesses a duly authorized license or permit to do so.

    (d) This section shall not apply to the transportation of an unloaded weapon which is broken down, enclosed in a case, carried in the trunk of a vehicle or otherwise inaccessible from the interior of the vehicle.

    (Ord. 26-A-7. Passed 7-2-85.)

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but section "A" covering carry, would fall under Michigan pre-emption and therefore be unenforcable?


    I would also like some recommendations as to how i can bring this to the attention of my city officials, if indeed I have a point.

    Thanks, Ron
    There are a few threads on this subject. You are correct the ordinance in part is illegal. I recommend you send a letter to the city manager/mayor/clerk (from their website) and inform them that the ordinance is illegal and that you want them to repeal that section that is preempted by state law. Below is the basic format I use. Simple, I include the ordinance in question, the preemption statute summary and the court of appeals case.

    Dear Mayor xxxx:

    Looking through your ordinances I discovered this one (below). Under the 1990 state preemption law this ordinance is unenforceable in regards to firearm possession and is misleading to the people of East Lansing and other citizens. I am requesting you amend this offending ordinance within 90 days. Failure to amend this ordinance would be considered an act of malfeasance as it willfully misinforms the public of what is and is not allowed in the city ofWayne.
    Thank You,

    Your name here

    In 1990, the Michigan legislature enacted MCL 123.1102 which provides, in pertinent part: A local unit of government shall not impose special taxation on, enact or enforce any ordinance or regulation pertaining to, or regulate in any other manner the ownership, registration, purchase, sale, transfer, transportation, or possession of pistols or other firearms, ammunition for pistols or other firearms, or components of pistols or other firearms, except as otherwise provided by federal law or a law of this state.

    THE[/b]MICHIGAN APPEALS COURTCONCLUDED:
    April 29, 2003
    9:10 am. v No. 242237 MCGRO vs Ferndale.

    In sum, we conclude that § 1102 is a statute that specifically imposes a prohibition on local units of government from enacting and enforcing any ordinances or regulations pertaining to the transportation and possession of firearms, and thus preempts any ordinance or regulation of a local unit of government concerning these areas. ][/b]

    [/b]Further, we conclude that the specific language of the 2000 amendments to MCL 28.421 et seq., particularly §§ 5c and 5o, which were adopted more than a decade after the enactment of § 1102, do not repeal § 1102 or otherwise reopen this area to local regulation of the carrying of firearms.17 Accordingly, we hold that the Ferndale ordinance is preempted by state law and, consequently, we reverse. [/b]

    City of Wayne ORDINANCE in question:

    690.04 CARRYING CONCEALED WEAPONS.
    (a) No person shall carry a firearm or dangerous weapon on his or her person or within or upon any vehicle, concealed or otherwise, except as otherwise specifically provided for in this section, on any of the streets or other public places in the City or on any private property frequented or visited by the public for purposes of education, recreation, amusement, entertainment, sports or shopping, or providing or receiving services.


    (b) For the purpose of this section, "firearm" means any device or part of a device, by whatever name known, which is designed or readily converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive, expansion of gas or air, or escape of gas or air. "Dangerous weapon" means any article or device which is designed or reasonably adapted for use as an offensive, dangerous or deadly weapon.

    (c) The provisions of this section shall not apply to members of the Armed Forces, National Guard or other employees of the Federal Government, the states and their political subdivisions who are required to carry firearms as part of their official duties and who are engaged in the performance of their official duties, or to a person who possesses a duly authorized license or permit to do so.

    (d) This section shall not apply to the transportation of an unloaded weapon which is broken down, enclosed in a case, carried in the trunk of a vehicle or otherwise inaccessible from the interior of the vehicle.

    (Ord. 26-A-7. Passed 7-2-85.)


    correction in red.

    Bronson
    Those who expect to reap the benefits of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. Thomas Paine

  4. #4
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    I caught it, thanks B.

    And thank you Brian, I sent it along and will post any response for reference.



    I've read through the ordinance several times and the way I understand it, as far as the city is concerned, I would be in violation walking out my front door and down the street with a holstered pistol if I don't have a CPL !

  5. #5
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    Received an email reply from the Chief of Police;

    Mr. ******,

    Thank you for bringing this to our attention. I have reviewed this
    Ordinance with the City Attorney. We both agree that the "Firearm"
    language should be removed. The City Attorney will be taking the
    appropriate steps to handle this in a timely manner and will hopefully
    have the amended Ordinance drafted in the next two - three months.
    Wayne Officers use State guidelines when dealing with Concealed Weapons
    and will only use the "Dangerous Weapons" portion of this ordinance when
    citing anyone.

    If you have questions or concerns feel free to contact me.

    John Williams
    Chief of Police
    Wayne P.D.


    This sounds like it needs translation, and thatmaybe my point wasn't clearly expressed?



  6. #6
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    RPG wrote:
    Received an email reply from the Chief of Police;

    Mr. ******,

    Thank you for bringing this to our attention. I have reviewed this
    Ordinance with the City Attorney. We both agree that the "Firearm"
    language should be removed. The City Attorney will be taking the
    appropriate steps to handle this in a timely manner and will hopefully
    have the amended Ordinance drafted in the next two - three months.
    Wayne Officers use State guidelines when dealing with Concealed Weapons
    and will only use the "Dangerous Weapons" portion of this ordinance when
    citing anyone.

    If you have questions or concerns feel free to contact me.

    John Williams
    Chief of Police
    Wayne P.D.


    This sounds like it needs translation, and thatmaybe my point wasn't clearly expressed?

    Make it clear that preemption covers all possession including OC. Sounds like he is just saying concealed. I would ask for a clarification. Good job so far, just needs a follow up.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  7. #7
    Regular Member Decoligny's Avatar
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    Venator wrote:
    RPG wrote:
    Received an email reply from the Chief of Police;

    Mr. ******,

    Thank you for bringing this to our attention. I have reviewed this
    Ordinance with the City Attorney. We both agree that the "Firearm"
    language should be removed. The City Attorney will be taking the
    appropriate steps to handle this in a timely manner and will hopefully
    have the amended Ordinance drafted in the next two - three months.
    Wayne Officers use State guidelines when dealing with Concealed Weapons
    and will only use the "Dangerous Weapons" portion of this ordinance when
    citing anyone.

    If you have questions or concerns feel free to contact me.

    John Williams
    Chief of Police
    Wayne P.D.


    This sounds like it needs translation, and thatmaybe my point wasn't clearly expressed?

    Make it clear that preemption covers all possession including OC. Sounds like he is just saying concealed. I would ask for a clarification. Good job so far, just needs a follow up.
    It looks like they are simply removing the the "firearm" portion of the ordinance, which would cut the ordiance down to something like this:

    690.04 CARRYING CONCEALED WEAPONS.
    (a) No person shall carry adangerous weapon on his or her person or within or upon any vehicle, concealed or otherwise, except as otherwise specifically provided for in this section, on any of the streets or other public places in the City or on any private property frequented or visited by the public for purposes of education, recreation, amusement, entertainment, sports or shopping, or providing or receiving services.


    (b) For the purpose of this section,"dangerous weapon" means any article or device which is designed or reasonably adapted for use as an offensive, dangerous or deadly weapon.

    (Ord. 26-A-7. Passed 7-2-85.)


    Since a firearm is not the same as a "dangerous weapon" I think they meet the objective of complying with the State preemption in regards to firearms.

  8. #8
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    Decoligny wrote:
    Venator wrote:
    RPG wrote:
    Received an email reply from the Chief of Police;

    Mr. ******,

    Thank you for bringing this to our attention. I have reviewed this
    Ordinance with the City Attorney. We both agree that the "Firearm"
    language should be removed. The City Attorney will be taking the
    appropriate steps to handle this in a timely manner and will hopefully
    have the amended Ordinance drafted in the next two - three months.
    Wayne Officers use State guidelines when dealing with Concealed Weapons
    and will only use the "Dangerous Weapons" portion of this ordinance when
    citing anyone.

    If you have questions or concerns feel free to contact me.

    John Williams
    Chief of Police
    Wayne P.D.


    This sounds like it needs translation, and thatmaybe my point wasn't clearly expressed?

    Make it clear that preemption covers all possession including OC. Sounds like he is just saying concealed. I would ask for a clarification. Good job so far, just needs a follow up.
    It looks like they are simply removing the the "firearm" portion of the ordinance, which would cut the ordiance down to something like this:

    690.04 CARRYING CONCEALED WEAPONS.
    (a) No person shall carry adangerous weapon on his or her person or within or upon any vehicle, concealed or otherwise, except as otherwise specifically provided for in this section, on any of the streets or other public places in the City or on any private property frequented or visited by the public for purposes of education, recreation, amusement, entertainment, sports or shopping, or providing or receiving services.


    (b) For the purpose of this section,"dangerous weapon" means any article or device which is designed or reasonably adapted for use as an offensive, dangerous or deadly weapon.

    (Ord. 26-A-7. Passed 7-2-85.)


    Since a firearm is not the same as a "dangerous weapon" I think they meet the objective of complying with the State preemption in regards to firearms.
    Except they can tell the public that it includes guns when they call and ask, most people would consider a gun a dangerous weapon. So it's very misleading and a form of defacto gun control. I would argue to have it read "any dangerous weaponother than alawful firearm(s)"

    This part scares me. (b) For the purpose of this section,"dangerous weapon" means any article or device which is designed or reasonably adapted for use as an offensive, dangerous or deadly weapon.


    They could still charge you with carrying a rifle if they think it's dangerous, so it needs work. They want their cake and eat it too.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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