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Thread: You Have Got to Read This!

  1. #1
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    This is a thread on a LEO Forum. It is downright scary the way some of them think.

    http://forums.officer.com/showthread.php?t=87148

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    And they wonder why they are called "jack-booted thugs"....

  3. #3
    Regular Member Sonora Rebel's Avatar
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    They'd have an apoplectic fit here in Arizona! Apparently none understand the 2A... and REALLY clueless on 6A. Mega-projection goin' on there. Traffic stops are always 'iffy'... but you can assess what's goin' on with the driver most of the time 'n act accordingly. If there's that much fear in these guys... they should find another line of work. I see 'control freak' in many of the responses as well.

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    Wow, scary!!

    As a LEO who has worked both here and in an anti-gun state such as CA, I have a unique perspective on this topic.

    CA (and assumingly most highly regulated/restricted gun states) create an attitude that owning or carrying a firearm is a priviledge, not a right. The cops, conversely, have the 'right' to carry guns. This creates a 'two-tiered' society, and a sort of 'police-state' attitude in many LEO's. This is enforced at the academy level, in field training, and in day-to-day duty. The concept that citizens have firearms only at the whim of the gov't allows officers to feel they have the right to suspend that whim, and belittle those citizens.

    Conversely, in a strong 2A rights state like AZ, gun ownership and carrying is a right of all residents, LEO or non-LEO. The mere fact that the cop can carry a gun makes him no more special than joe citizen.

    Now, from a personal perspective, when I stop someone and they tell me they have a firearm in the car, or on their person (and I always assume everyone does, whether they say so or not), I only want to know where it is (its nice to know if the registration and insurance is in the same glovebox as the gun) and I tell the occupants to 'leave it there'. Now, if the gun is on the seat next to the driver, I'll usually ask him to step out of the car for the duration of the stop (you can argue all you want, but a loose gun next to the driver is an issue FOR ME).

    I've contacted dozens or more people with firearms on their person or in their vehicle. Unless they are the subject of a resonable suspicion detention (discounting normal traffic stops for speed and the like) I don't want to confiscate their firearms, temporarily or otherwise.

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    Yikes! After reading the OP's link, I find another reason why I love Arizona.

    IMHO, being right handed, I always OC/CC cross draw. My money and drivers license is in my right front pocket, thus I see no need to reach around/near a gun when fishing for cash/ID and perhaps make others nearby feel uncomfortable.

    During a traffic stop I will INFORM the LEO that I have a handgun and where it's located. I find they welcome the info and to date, I've not been hassled about it, nor have I received a traffic citation.

    That's my experience in Arizona. As always, YMMV!

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    I have never had any negative LEO experiences in Arizona, Utah,Nevada, or idaho since i started carrying in 1995.

    i have had LEO officers ask to see my glock because its chambered in 357 sig..

    thats it...

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    I only scanned it.

    Did even one cite a court opinion authorizing an automatic seizure?

    So far the only opinion I've seen that would seem to (and would seem to be in violation of Terry's dangerousness requirement) was an opinion out of the 4th federal circuit. Basically that opinion just omitted distinguishing between armed and presently dangerous, and armed and not presently dangerous. It did not expressly say it was extending beyond Terry.

    For the moment, and subject to reconsideration, I cannot see how it is more dangerous for a police officer to approach someone in their car on the side of the road than it is for a police officer likeOfficer McFadden of Terry fame to approach someone on a sidewalk.

    Maybe a part of it is thatOfficer McFadden had a lot more common-sense and natural courage than some of today's police seem to possess. Think about it. He saw three guys conferring, two of whom definitely seemed to be casing a jewelry store for a robbery--potentially an armed robbery. And he just up and approached them alone, grabbed one, spun him, searched for the gun, and seized it. That's moxie, boys.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Regular Member Sonora Rebel's Avatar
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    With car stops... you can't observe what's goin' on 'til ya get close. Body language 'n all that.

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    Sonora Rebel wrote:
    With car stops... you can't observe what's goin' on 'til ya get close. Body language 'n all that.
    Lemme think about that. Thanks.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    I read some of the posts, and went thru multiple emotions of anger and being scared. I just received my "CCW Permit" today.

    I know that there are more good cops than bad cops out there, and they have a tough job. I just worry that something could go wrong if I get that one bad apple one day when and if I get pulled over for something. I know that I will be respectful and follow directions, but I worry that I could get that arrogant cop that was in the forums that had a bad day and I end up getting shot for no reason.

    I also see a "privilege" to wear/have a gun posted in those forums way to much. That mentality is scary to me as well.

    Part 2, if you do get your CCW...Chances are you’re not a drug dealer or a BG in general. Where is the mutual respect come into play?

    Eh, I am tired, night all.



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    Crossfire Jedi wrote:
    I read some of the posts, and went thru multiple emotions of anger and being scared. I just received my "CCW Permit" today.

    I know that there are more good cops than bad cops out there, and they have a tough job. I just worry that something could go wrong if I get that one bad apple one day when and if I get pulled over for something. I know that I will be respectful and follow directions, but I worry that I could get that arrogant cop that was in the forums that had a bad day and I end up getting shot for no reason.

    I also see a "privilege" to wear/have a gun posted in those forums way to much. That mentality is scary to me as well.

    Part 2, if you do get your CCW...Chances are you’re not a drug dealer or a BG in general. Where is the mutual respect come into play?

    Eh, I am tired, night all.

    I couldn't agree with this statement more. Funny how some LEO's consider 2A a Privilege, yet have no problem exercising their 1A right to make asses out of themselves on Forums like those! Just an observation.

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    Had a wild thought while reading the thread. If some LEO's think it is no big deal to be disarmed during an encounter with a citizen perhaps it should be appropriate for them to give up their arms to the citizen while conducting the stop. "Here hold mine while I check out your lisc." Me thinks they might get the point .

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    Regular Member Sonora Rebel's Avatar
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    Crossfire Jedi wrote:
    I also see a "privilege" to wear/have a gun posted in those forums way to much. That mentality is scary to me as well.
    The only priviledge I can see an argument with is 'Concealed'. While I disagree with it... there's nuthin' in the 2A about 'concealed', only 'to bear'. There's no caveat as to the manner/method of 'bearing'. However... "...Shall not be infringed" is pretty straightforward and clear.

    The LEO poster who essentially said: "If you don't want to be hassled then don't carry (concealed)" is WAY off base. God only knows how they'd react to OC. It's kind'a obvious that this sort of attitude toward an armed citizen is endemic within entire Departments. Thankfully, I've yet to encounter that attitude in AZ. As AZKopper stated... "I expect everybody to be armed". OK... there's an honest assessment of a potential risk to the LEO which is an expectation beforehand during a car stop. Simply informing the LEO that you are armed (before anything else) is a common courtesy that IMHO would go a long way in removing any doubts about several things.

    1. You are armed

    2. Position/location of the weapon

    3. I'm not gonna shoot you with it

    4. Advise me how you wish to proceed

    I know that's not a requirement... and there some who are a little 'rabid' about not having toinform theLEO of anything.

    Having been a LEO.... I'd rather be informed than surprised.

    The possibility of having someone else (cop) disarm me was the driving force for not having a 'retention' type holster or a Glock pistol. Some nervous and technically ignorant bozo is liable to shoot me with my own gun in the process of disarming me.

    I reckon the bottom line to all that is that the majority of the LEO's that posted on that forum dunno what a 'Right' actually is... and wouldn't care if they did. That's the scary part.

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    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    Sonora Rebel wrote:
    They'd have an apoplectic fit here in Arizona! Apparently none understand the 2A... and REALLY clueless on 6A. Mega-projection goin' on there. Traffic stops are always 'iffy'... but you can assess what's goin' on with the driver most of the time 'n act accordingly. If there's that much fear in these guys... they should find another line of work. I see 'control freak' in many of the responses as well.
    You ain't kiddin about being apologetic in Arizona. AZ cops are really truly awesome.

    But about why cops are scared in traffic stops, I think it's pretty easy to understand. Even a stupider cop can recognize that if he pulls someone over for doing 15 over, which is 20 less than he was just driving, he's going to make the person he pulls over angry. If someone is nuts to begin with, and pissed off on top of that for being hassled over a victimless crime, things can get dangerous. But this is not a reason to disarm people, it is a reason to watch out at every stop, because the dangerous bad guy will be the one who doesn't tell you he's armed.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

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    I've run accross 6 of them so far, and will never give up my gun.
    The leo can move along if he can't deal with it.

    Just don't pull over, last I checked you do not have this right. It is called
    felony evasion.

    Then going on to say you haven't been harmed when he says you get your gun
    back emptied.
    When I see the leo's who shot Randy Weavers wife son and baby in jail,
    when Janet Reno is fried for premeditated mass murder. Then I will give the
    benifit of doubt to the leo on the side of the road.
    But until the crooked ones are held accountable, there is no way I will become
    the next statistic to be swept under the rug.

    As long as you do not draw down on me, then you have no problems from me.
    If you are worried about bad guys out and about, write your legislators and
    get the parole board abolished that lets violent people back out on the street.
    It is the justice system that endangers you not us.




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    Jawohl Mein Heir, Seig Heil, all bow to Us, WE ARE THE LAW AND YOU WILL COMPLY



    Respect Begets Respect, Arrogance Breeds Comtempt Also You Work For Us, We The People Pay you with our tax dollars and No One is Above The Law, Even Though You Like To Think You Might Be.



    Yes Indeed, Some Very Scary Stuff There. What Goes Around, Comes Around.......................

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    Regular Member Sonora Rebel's Avatar
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    Most of the JBT types I've encountered had no prior actual 'military' service. 'Wonder if there's a 'profile' to that?

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    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    And somehow they call us the ego-tripping wack-jobs? How dare we make their penis look less big by showing that carrying a gun does not make anyone special....

    Do you get that, gun-haters? We carry guns because it DOESN'T make us special, and to dispel the myth that there is anything macho, complicated, difficult, or 'superior' about it! Try applying your armchair psychoanalysis to your own hate-filled anti-rights reactions...

    Yet you want to accuse us of exactly that?

    Tell me when UPS delivers your brain, then we'll talk.
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
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    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

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    Recovering Californian wrote:
    This is a thread on a LEO Forum. It is downright scary the way some of them think.

    http://forums.officer.com/showthread.php?t=87148
    I have read through this forum many times....and their views about the people just sicken me, because they see us as the enemy.

    it just furthers my belief that the police cannot and should not be trusted.

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    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    suntzu wrote:
    Recovering Californian wrote:
    This is a thread on a LEO Forum. It is downright scary the way some of them think.

    http://forums.officer.com/showthread.php?t=87148
    I have read through this forum many times....and their views about the people just sicken me, because they see us as the enemy.

    it just furthers my belief that the police cannot and should not be trusted.
    Agreed, the only thing we need protection from, is them.
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

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    I won't feel safe until everyone is in jail

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    having worked in a prison for 3 + years , i have seen first hand why every honest, responsible hard working citizen should carry a firearm.....

    i try to explain that CRIMINALS dont care what honest people think of them outside of the prison walls. They only care what other CRIMINALS think of them inside the prison walls. they have their own society. people need to understand that.

    I have heard sex offenders and murderers bragging about their crimes.

    they think its funny to R_b elderly people...

    you have to SPEAK THEIR LANGUAGE.......


    for me, speaking the language is why i OC/CC

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    Hiredgun30 wrote:
    having worked in a prison for 3 + years , i have seen first hand why every honest, responsible hard working citizen should carry a firearm.....

    i try to explain that CRIMINALS dont care what honest people think of them outside of the prison walls. They only care what other CRIMINALS think of them inside the prison walls. they have their own society. people need to understand that.

    I have heard sex offenders and murderers bragging about their crimes.

    they think its funny to R_b elderly people...

    you have to SPEAK THEIR LANGUAGE.......


    for me, speaking the language is why i OC/CC
    Can ya hear me now Obak Barama, Nancy Pi$$losi and all you other walking talking piles of Human Compost..........



    Well said HiredGun 30...........

  25. #25
    Regular Member Sonora Rebel's Avatar
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    True 'nuff about the predatory criminal subculture. Laws are meaningless. Street Creds are everything.

    Yet... we would be rendered defensless by the very government sworn to defend our Right to self defense.



    I will not...

    be a victim!

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