You Have Got to Read This!

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suntzu wrote:

Recovering Californian wrote:

This is a thread on a LEO Forum. It is downright scary the way some of them think. :cuss:

http://forums.officer.com/showthread.php?t=87148

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I have read through this forum many times....and their views about the people just sicken me, because they see us as the enemy.

it just furthers my belief that the police cannot and should not be trusted.

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Agreed, the only thing we need protection from, is them.

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I won't feel safe until everyone is in jail

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having worked in a prison for 3 + years , i have seen first hand why every honest, responsible hard working citizen should carry a firearm.....

i try to explain that CRIMINALS dont care what honest people think of them outside of the prison walls. They only care what other CRIMINALS think of them inside the prison walls. they have their own society. people need to understand that.

I have heard sex offenders and murderers bragging about their crimes.

they think its funny to R_b elderly people...

you have to SPEAK THEIR LANGUAGE.......


for me, speaking the language is why i OC/CC

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Hiredgun30 wrote:

having worked in a prison for 3 + years , i have seen first hand why every honest, responsible hard working citizen should carry a firearm.....

i try to explain that CRIMINALS dont care what honest people think of them outside of the prison walls. They only care what other CRIMINALS think of them inside the prison walls. they have their own society. people need to understand that.

I have heard sex offenders and murderers bragging about their crimes.

they think its funny to R_b elderly people...

you have to SPEAK THEIR LANGUAGE.......


for me, speaking the language is why i OC/CC

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Can ya hear me now Obak Barama, Nancy Pi$$losi and all you other walking talking piles of Human Compost..........



Well said HiredGun 30...........

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True 'nuff about the predatory criminal subculture. Laws are meaningless. Street Creds are everything.

Yet... we would be rendered defensless by the very government sworn to defend our Right to self defense.



I will not...

be a victim!

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Well said Sonora.

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Maybe we should ask to disarm the officers during a stop.

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You don't ask? I make sure I tell them that them having a gun makes me
nervous and to go leave it in thier car.
So far no takers, but the look on the faces is priceless.

If they ever try to confiscate my money they had better have listened or
to me or it is armed robbery, and appropriate action results.

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AZkopper wrote:

Wow, scary!!

As a LEO who has worked both here and in an anti-gun state such as CA, I have a unique perspective on this topic.

CA (and assumingly most highly regulated/restricted gun states) create an attitude that owning or carrying a firearm is a priviledge, not a right. The cops, conversely, have the 'right' to carry guns. This creates a 'two-tiered' society, and a sort of 'police-state' attitude in many LEO's. This is enforced at the academy level, in field training, and in day-to-day duty. The concept that citizens have firearms only at the whim of the gov't allows officers to feel they have the right to suspend that whim, and belittle those citizens.

Conversely, in a strong 2A rights state like AZ, gun ownership and carrying is a right of all residents, LEO or non-LEO. The mere fact that the cop can carry a gun makes him no more special than joe citizen.

Now, from a personal perspective, when I stop someone and they tell me they have a firearm in the car, or on their person (and I always assume everyone does, whether they say so or not), I only want to know where it is (its nice to know if the registration and insurance is in the same glovebox as the gun) and I tell the occupants to 'leave it there'. Now, if the gun is on the seat next to the driver, I'll usually ask him to step out of the car for the duration of the stop (you can argue all you want, but a loose gun next to the driver is an issue FOR ME).

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I know this is an old post, but responding anyway...

I declare that I have a gun if stopped, especially if I am going to be stretching across my truck cab to grab my registration and the gun may suddenly become visible. My own philosophy on this is practicality. I don't want the cop making any mistakes about my intentions because he, too, is armed.

In the three cases or so in which I have encountered a cop and was armed, I informed him, and it was just not an issue. They didn't seem concerned, sort of nodded, thanked me for telling them, and told me to leave the gun where it was (in all cases concealed, and they didn't even ask to see my CCW permit). If the cop requested the weapon, I'd probably hand it over. The chances that I'd ever have to defend myself against a psychopath cop, as a white guy with no criminal record, are next to zero. The chances of an accident occurring because of a misunderstanding are far greater.

I take the same attitude with Border Patrol, subject to change if my experiences change.

I know some folks have issues with the militarization of our border and random stops/checkpoints (I do, too). But the place to fight this battle is via the political process, not when actually encountering armed agents of the State - LEOs or otherwise. People keep doing this and I am skeptical that it has any positive long term effect.

Simply being nice and forthcoming has, so far, resulted in 100% positive encounters with AZ law enforcement and Border Patrol personnel. Which is more than I can say for New Jersey or California, wherein my experiences with police were almost uniformly negative.

If you accept the worst about police, and you believe them to be bullies, it seems more practical to avoid confrontation (dealing with it in court should it occur) altogether.

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And how do you propose we "deal" with it in court, when you are
once again being disarmed?

The solution you propose for a cop taking your gun, is to let another
government agent take your gun. Two wrongs don't make a right.
By this reasoning if you are the victim of an illegal search, your recourse
is to invite more illegal searches. This is definately a BHO reasoning.

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Well I was thinking along the lines of having the gun temporarily taken from you for the duration of the stop, as opposed to confiscated where you'd have to claim it from the police station, which I oppose.

So I kind of mixed concepts there.

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On the plus side, you did get me to thinking.
I need to OC in the court room as part of my defence to show the jury that
just having a gun on my hip in no way causes terror. To be denied your
right to a defence by the judge should be appealable.

If you are the plaintif, then the first still applies, they are disarming you
for the right to redress being disarmed. To my knowledge there has never
been a shooter in a court room who was the plaintif, or defendant.
All of them are third party, bailifs, leo, or judges guns. All of who do not have
to be there. But a defendent is ordered to be there, and therefore has no
choice. Plus if it is so dangerous, then disarming isn't a very good idea.

Officer safety disarming assumes that the leo can safely handle the weapon.
There are countless examples that this is far from true.
How do I keep my safety devices from being triggered by uninformed persons
if they start playing with the release out of my sight. I have more then enough
examples of telling an leo something, and them not listening.

After reading about the DPD account, even if there are 20 cops on site
your rights are not safe from crooked cops. So as long as I can't tell
if it is safe, then I can't help any bad feelings this may cause.