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Thread: U.S Concealed Carry Association is a SCAM!!!

  1. #1
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    I just got a marketing booklet from Tim Schmidt, the head guy at USCCA, and in it he lays out how and why he createdthe USCCA as an association.

    It was just a marketing ploy to make money.

    I’m not kidding. He calls it “Tribal Marketing” and is exporting his idea to others. In Tim’s own words:

    “My money-sucking magazine survived to become a national association with 30,000 members and a multi-media publishing company with over 50,000 customers!”


    And this gem:
    We all have the NEED to BELONG.

    Every one has it. And it’s the most important need that human beings have after health and safety. In other words, as long as you’re healthy and as long as you’re safe, your unconscious mind’s next priority is to find ways to belong.

    If you’re someone who’s into personal growth and reading about what makes us tick, this may not be a secret to you. But make no mistake, this need is powerful. Even if you’re not aware of it.

    In fact…

    Your unconscious mind will not rest until you BELONG to a “tribe” of some kind.”

    So, Tim has us lumped in with degenerates and animals with his quasi—psych BS.

    No really, he goes on for 43 pages, complete with late-night MLM style “testimonials” about his brilliant money making idea.

    I wish I could post an image of his “Tim’s TRIBAL Marketing Rule #1” with his signature. Here is the text if it:

    Tim’s TRIBAL Marketing Rule #1
    No matter what the subject is for your membership website or association, you’ll probably be able to find a ton of information on this exact subject for FREE on the internet. This discovery may make you ask yourself, “Why would anyone want to PAY for the information that I’ll be providing?” Good question. But, don’t worry. This doesn’t mater! Here’s why. Most of the so-called free informaton is poorly organized and presented. Furthermore, there will always be a segment of society that equates quality and value with price.

    Thus, there will always be plenty of people willing to pay for the information they’re searching for if it is properly marketed, organized and presented! So, please DON’T be discouraged by the old “I can find this information for free” thing.
    So, it is all a scam, it is such a scam that he then crows about his method and markets his method to others. Complete with “Insider’s 3-day Workshops”. Oh, this LIVE event has LIMITED Seating and is by INVITATION ONLY.

    Oh, it is in Chicago where concealed carry is illegal. Way to go Tim. What a guy!

    More on this latter and I'll try to post a link to his Tribal Marketing document.



    -CharlesC



  2. #2
    Lone Star Veteran DrMark's Avatar
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    Hmmm... I've never heard of the U.S Concealed Carry Association or Tim Schmidt.

    Fortunate for me, I suppose.



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    The NRA business model:
    We all have the NEED to BELONG.

    Every one has it. And it’s the most important need that human beings have after health and safety. In other words, as long as you’re healthy and as long as you’re safe, your unconscious mind’s next priority is to find ways to belong.

    If you’re someone who’s into personal growth and reading about what makes us tick, this may not be a secret to you. But make no mistake, this need is powerful. Even if you’re not aware of it.

    In fact…

    Your unconscious mind will not rest until you BELONG to a “tribe” of some kind.”

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    OMG...!!!!


    I am going to cancel my membership now! I was a founding member!


  5. #5
    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    DrMark wrote:
    Hmmm... I've never heard of the U.S Concealed Carry Association or Tim Schmidt.

    Fortunate for me, I suppose.

    ditto
    James Reynolds

    NRA Certified Firearms Instructor - Pistol, Shotgun, Home Firearms Safety, Refuse To Be A Victim
    Concealed Firearms Instructor for Virginia, Florida & Utah permits.
    NRA Certified Chief Range Safety Officer
    Sabre Red Pepper Spray Instructor
    Glock Certified Armorer
    Instructor Bio - http://proactiveshooters.com/about-us/

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    ProShooter wrote:
    DrMark wrote:
    Hmmm... I've never heard of the U.S Concealed Carry Association or Tim Schmidt.

    Fortunate for me, I suppose.

    ditto
    I "belonged" for a year.

    All I got was a monthly magazine and a bunch of annoying emails.

    I never figured out what 'association' I belonged to, there was no activism, just a mag.

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    I've belonged for just about a year to the USCCA. I'd already decided to not renew my membership. As he stated, you can get most of the info free from the internet anyway. There is a forum but there seems to be the same narrow minded gun snobs that you can find on most internet gun sites. If your not carrying a "brand name" gun in a well accepted manner or caliber, then you're not doing it right. Of course we don't have that type of problem on this site. Just not worth the money spent.

  8. #8
    Founder's Club Member Skeptic's Avatar
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    I have to agree with the previous 2 posters. The mag had some decent gems every so often, but started getting rehashed, and I never went out of my way to re-up after my first year.

    The forum was just eh; I guess I was looking for another place after packing.org went byebye and that was one of the first ones I found.

    They got my money for a year, shame on me.


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    I signed up a few months ago. I've recieved 2 magazines and they were ok. I thought they lacked depth but were ok. I thought that they may still be growning. No where near the depth of the NRA mags and feature articles.

    What is interesting is that just a couple of days ago, I was wondering just what USCCA actually did.

    See I was really snookered good. It was a toss up as to which to join for a fee, VCDL or USCCA. From the website it looked like USCCA was the more active and professional group.

    But from what I've seen now, VCDL blows the doors off of USCCA in terms of activism and actually DOING things. And that was before the Tribal Marketing issue.

    VCDL may not have a great website but they actually do thing. And there are many other free groups that also really do something. But Tim at USCCA is a phony. All the "association" is for is to make him money.

    If this is a member association, who is on the board, how is it run and where does the money go? Shouldn' t us members have a right to this information?

    -CharlesC

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    Man, I hate to see this kind of sentiment toward our brothers in arms.

    A scam??

    How could it possibly be a scam?

    You give $40/year to the NRA for two decades, and all you got were a Magazine that was so full of ads it wasn't worth reading, and ten years of a gun ban. But- you stay a member, because they are the ONLY lobbyists who scare the liberals.

    On the other hand, you give less than $40 per year to the USCCA, and you get a magazine that is so relevant and so good that you read it cover to cover twice.

    You have tens of thousands of people who have been introduced to concealed carry, and tons more, like me, who have learned everything they know about concealed carry from them.

    How on earth is that a scam?

    I never even would have known about this forum until I read about it in Concealed Carry Magazine, when Mark Walters encouraged those who CCd to OC.

    I still haven't worked up the courage to OC.... but thanks to CCM telling me about this place, I'm getting closer.

    If Mr. McDonalds came out and said, "Hey guys, I figured out how to succeed in fast food- show people how to get full for $4"- would you say that McDonalds were a scam, and all the times you got full from the restaurant were fake?

    -Disco

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    DiscoFever wrote:
    Man, I hate to see this kind of sentiment toward our brothers in arms.

    A scam??

    How could it possibly be a scam?

    You give $40/year to the NRA for two decades, and all you got were a Magazine that was so full of ads it wasn't worth reading, and ten years of a gun ban. But- you stay a member, because they are the ONLY lobbyists who scare the liberals.

    On the other hand, you give less than $40 per year to the USCCA, and you get a magazine that is so relevant and so good that you read it cover to cover twice.

    You have tens of thousands of people who have been introduced to concealed carry, and tons more, like me, who have learned everything they know about concealed carry from them.

    How on earth is that a scam?

    I never even would have known about this forum until I read about it in Concealed Carry Magazine, when Mark Walters encouraged those who CCd to OC.

    I still haven't worked up the courage to OC.... but thanks to CCM telling me about this place, I'm getting closer.

    If Mr. McDonalds came out and said, "Hey guys, I figured out how to succeed in fast food- show people how to get full for $4"- would you say that McDonalds were a scam, and all the times you got full from the restaurant were fake?

    -Disco
    There are other reasons besides a magazine subscription.... Life insurance, bumper stickers and other benefits.

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    Definitely, Leo- I agree with you there. I don't get the NRA Insurance.... probably should, but I don't. But the bumper stickers are great. I have both the NRA and the USCCA bumper sticker on the back of my laptop right now!

    All I'm saying is this:

    For something to be a scam, it would have to cheat you somehow. Like... tell you that you were going to get something and not give it to you.

    The time my wife made a donation to a charity, to find later that the "charity" was a crook who took out WAY more than the $30 my wife donated (she gave him our routing number and account number)- that was a scam.

    To pay $40 to the USCCA and get, what I feel is WAAAAY more than my money's worth... I just can't fathom to see how that's a scam.

    Well, we're gunna go watch that new DiCaprio movie. Later guys,

    -Disco

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    It simply seems to me that the founder of USCCA is someone who understandsa business model and thought he would put his understanding to use in a way that was meaningful and profitable to him in a way that could also benefit others. Maybe the same information can be had for free in various places, but if you are unaware of it or untrusting of it how would you know? Why should a man be demonized for recognizing the potential to make a living and following through with it? Is it only acceptable to make a living and profit off of trifling matters?

    I've only read about USCCA a few times and have no association with it, but I see no issue with someone providing a service making money for doing it. If he forcefully made people spend money to join his group then I'd have a problem, but he hasn't from what I know.

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    To be a true scam you need to pay something but not get what was promised.

    I never did join this association so I do not know what they offer. But those that joined may get all they expect.

    Any business model has the expectation to separate you from your money by offering you something you will want.

    The owner knows that people want to belong. His association is a step in that direction and getting you to join needs to happen.

    He is providing information people want even if it is free if you search for it on your own. But he did all the searching for you and giving it to you in one location.

    So you are in reality paying him to do the searching for you and give you a place to hang out.

    How many people here would pay to be on this site?

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    The NRA has affilated clubs, a museum, shooting ranges, competitions, lobbying, 3 magazines, awards, a legal team, TRAINING PROGRAMS, safety classes, the list goes on.

    The NRA is a real group people BELONG to. It isn't setup for one person's financal benefit.

    I thought that USCCA was about JOINING a GROUP that was doing something. The founders of this FREE group actually go to public meetings and meet with civic and gov't leaders. They actually DO stuff. Tim just cashes the checks and uses the members are Marketing Leads.

    The NRA actually USES my dues to DO somethign. All Tim does is make a so-so magazine and a web forum with adds everywhere.

    Can people see the difference?

    I don't care that Tim at USCCA wants to make money. That is great. Please make as much as you can, just don't take advantage of my wish to help the 2A movement!

    -CharlesC

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    NRA = some pluses and a few minuses. Well researched articles and national exposure, insurance, Eddie Eagle and Jr. programs, etc. etc.

    USCCA = stale reworked information - if you have a need to belong, consider the next option.

    VCDL = feet on the ground, active grass roots. Probably the single best bargain in support of the 2nd Amendment. Make it stronger and more productive by getting personally involved. Making things happen the old fashioned way.

    OCDO = hands down the best blog on the subject out there and a "membership" that will jump into the breach and pull together for the common good.

    Just my $2.00 worth.

    Yata hey
    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time.

    Yata hey

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    Grapeshot wrote:
    NRA = some pluses and a few minuses. Well researched articles and national exposure, insurance, Eddie Eagle and Jr. programs, etc. etc.

    USCCA = stale reworked information - if you have a need to belong, consider the next option.

    VCDL = feet on the ground, active grass roots. Probably the single best bargain in support of the 2nd Amendment. Make it stronger and more productive by getting personally involved. Making things happen the old fashioned way.

    OCDO = hands down the best blog on the subject out there and a "membership" that will jump into the breach and pull together for the common good.

    Just my $2.00 worth.

    Yata hey
    I agree. I still have a lot of repect for the NRA but you are correct about the rest. I'll join VCDL next month.

    -CharlesC

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    LEO 229 wrote:
    How many people here would pay to be on this site?

    I would...

    I donate to a number of sites that I frequent to keep them up and running.


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    I would pay a user fee for this site as well.

    edited to fix filter between brain and fingers.

  20. #20
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    Grapeshot wrote:
    NRA = some pluses and a few minuses. Well researched articles and national exposure, insurance, Eddie Eagle and Jr. programs, etc. etc.

    USCCA = stale reworked information - if you have a need to belong, consider the next option.

    VCDL = feet on the ground, active grass roots. Probably the single best bargain in support of the 2nd Amendment. Make it stronger and more productive by getting personally involved. Making things happen the old fashioned way.

    OCDO = hands down the best blog on the subject out there and a "membership" that will jump into the breach and pull together for the common good.

    Just my $2.00 worth.

    Yata hey
    +1. I joined only insofar as I opted to receive emails, but never paid to access the forums. He sent out those emails at a rate of 2-3/day and in each he tried to sound like he was my best friend or big brother and giving me secret sage advice. Once every couple weeks one of the emails linked to something interesting, but wading through the other 40 hyperbole-laden emails to find it was not worth it to me.

    I finally emailed him and said simply, "You send too many emails." :?

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    That's odd. I have known of TS and his mag for awhile and didn't think it worth the time........so I never signed up. Too much self hype.

    Now....TONIGHT....on another board.....I signed my e mail to get free goodies from him with NO intention of sending any MONEY AT ALL. I do that a lot....bait.

    THENI FIND THIS POST....TOO FUNNY.:celebrate

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    useful_idiot wrote:

    I finally emailed him and said simply, "You send too many emails." :?
    I wish that would work on the NRA and their weekly mail requests for donations. I'm not going to leave over it but I know a few people who have and i wonder how much they could save by cutting back on the solicitations even just a little bit.

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    Here's the "secret" behindTim Schmidt's USCCA site:

    http://www.tribalmarketingassociation.org/

    Basically, we are all degenerates and have a primal, tribal urge to join.

    Oh, I posted my thought on the site and talk about a flame war. I am evil incarnate. I've been called a gun-hating liberal, un-americian and I dont' want people to make money.

    Not a single person ever challeged me on the merits of my complaint.

    Thats all to be expected though.

    -CharlesC

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    CharlesC wrote:
    I Tim’s TRIBAL Marketing Rule #1
    No matter what the subject is for your membership website or association, you’ll probably be able to find a ton of information on this exact subject for FREE on the internet. This discovery may make you ask yourself, “Why would anyone want to PAY for the information that I’ll be providing?” Good question. But, don’t worry. This doesn’t mater! Here’s why. Most of the so-called free informaton is poorly organized and presented. Furthermore, there will always be a segment of society that equates quality and value with price.

    Thus, there will always be plenty of people willing to pay for the information they’re searching for if it is properly marketed, organized and presented! So, please DON’T be discouraged by the old “I can find this information for free” thing.
    This is not entirely bad you know.

    For example, Tony Hortons Training videos. Everything he does on there has been done before. But since his is more organized, and done so in a very particular order, IMO, it's worth the money. Of course I could have found out all the techniques another way, but I didn't feel like it. Plus the videos help with the monkey see monkey do style of wroking out.

    So I paid $100 for Tony Hortons Ten minute Trainer and a little equipment. All stuff I might could have found on the internet, but I didn't want to.

    The program works, it's easy to follow and well put together. Well worth the money IMO.

    This CC programcould probably do the same for someone else.



  25. #25
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    CharlesC wrote:
    Here's the "secret" behindTim Schmidt's USCCA site:

    http://www.tribalmarketingassociation.org/

    Basically, we are all degenerates and have a primal, tribal urge to join.

    Oh, I posted my thought on the site and talk about a flame war. I am evil incarnate. I've been called a gun-hating liberal, un-americian and I dont' want people to make money.

    Not a single person ever challeged me on the merits of my complaint.

    Thats all to be expected though.

    -CharlesC
    Well if it worked for them, who are you to tell them it's BS ?

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