• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

If an LEO Bugs You For Consent, Or Questions Your Refusal, During an OC Encounter

deepdiver

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Apr 2, 2007
Messages
5,820
Location
Southeast, Missouri, USA
imported post

I admit that I didn't have much time when I read it and certainly did not have time to read further on the matter beyond this thread. You bring up good points as usual, Citizen. I will revisit the matter when I have more time and reconsider my comments.
 

KBCraig

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2007
Messages
4,886
Location
Granite State of Mind
imported post

Every rights/freedom activist's line in the sand should always be, "I do not consent to a search".

But just for grins, and to put things in perspective for the courts (should it come to that), I suggest that the first response to "You don't mind if I search your car, do you?", be along the lines of "Why in the world would you want to search li'l ol' me? What do you think you might I might have?"

That forces the officer to articulate what he's searching for; with that statement, he limits where he can search. If he's searching for guns (for his own safety, of course), the ashtray (and the roach within) is off limits. As would be the folded paper bag of cocaine in Florida v. Jimeno; there are no guns that can be concealed in a gum wrapper.

Courts have long held that the authority to search is limited to the place and time where the person or thing to be seized might reasonably be found. A warrant for a stolen elephant doesn't authorize police to look in your medicine cabinet; a search for an escaped convict doesn't permit them to look in your glove compartment; a Terry pat-down for officer safety doesn't give the officer leave to dig through your pockets.

"I don't know what you might hope to find, Officer. What are you looking for?" is a good question. "Contraband" or "drugs" or "weapons" or "you never know what we might find" are all legally unacceptable answers. They show a lack of specific articulable suspicion about the likelihood of crime being "afoot", and instead illustrate that it's just a fishing expedition.
 

AWDstylez

Banned
Joined
Jul 3, 2008
Messages
2,785
Location
, Connecticut, USA
imported post

KBCraig wrote:
Every rights/freedom activist's line in the sand should always be, "I do not consent to a search".

But just for grins, and to put things in perspective for the courts (should it come to that), I suggest that the first response to "You don't mind if I search your car, do you?", be along the lines of "Why in the world would you want to search li'l ol' me? What do you think you might I might have?"

That forces the officer to articulate what he's searching for; with that statement, he limits where he can search. If he's searching for guns (for his own safety, of course), the ashtray (and the roach within) is off limits. As would be the folded paper bag of cocaine in Florida v. Jimeno; there are no guns that can be concealed in a gum wrapper.

Courts have long held that the authority to search is limited to the place and time where the person or thing to be seized might reasonably be found. A warrant for a stolen elephant doesn't authorize police to look in your medicine cabinet; a search for an escaped convict doesn't permit them to look in your glove compartment; a Terry pat-down for officer safety doesn't give the officer leave to dig through your pockets.

"I don't know what you might hope to find, Officer. What are you looking for?" is a good question. "Contraband" or "drugs" or "weapons" or "you never know what we might find" are all legally unacceptable answers. They show a lack of specific articulable suspicion about the likelihood of crime being "afoot", and instead illustrate that it's just a fishing expedition.



Excellent point. And after he did articulate what he wanted to look for (if he even could), I'd still say no. :lol:
 

darthmord

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 10, 2008
Messages
998
Location
Norfolk, Virginia, USA
imported post

Doug Huffman wrote:
We have much evidence that a cop is not bound to respond to a mere citizen truthfully or at all. Make statements that you can live with rather than base actions on untruths.

That's what the voice recorder is for... well the 2nd one that you turned on at the beginning of the traffic stop just in case the first one is taken / seized.

Helps keep honest people honest and trips up the dishonest ones.
 

paramedic70002

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 14, 2006
Messages
1,440
Location
Franklin, VA, Virginia, USA
imported post

Never ever ever ever ever ever ever consent to a search. Why?

1. If an LEO wants to search your vehicle/person, they are not your friend.

2. If they could legally do it without consent, they wouldn't be asking.

3. Rare, but the LEO has an opportunity to plant evidence against you.

4. Make them follow the law they have sworn to uphold.

5. You may have a friend in the vehicle that isn't as law abiding as you are.

Even if they begin to search without consent, loudly but calmly state, "I do not consent to any searches, Officer."

If they threaten you with a long hold until they can get a drug sniffing dog, get comfortable. Think about the payout they are setting you up to get.

If you step out of your vehicle, close and lock the door.

Be nice, be pleasant, do not resist.
 

CharlesC

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 4, 2009
Messages
67
Location
Fairfax County, Virginia, USA
imported post

I watched the video: BUSTED The Citizen's Guide to Surviving Police Encounters

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqMjMPlXzdA&feature=related

I do not answer their double edge questions and I'm ready to NOT give consent and to lock my vehicle when I leave.

I was surprised that I remembered to do this when I was pulled over a week or so ago. (While armed.)I was a nervous wreck but I think I did things right.

I think the smart thing to do is to just not allow any searches and to not give up any consent or your 5th amendment rights.

A couple of years ago I read a story about field sobriety tests and how people were getting "tricked" into taking and then flunking them. The officer would pull over an over a vehicle for some very minor and vague traffic offence such as "failure to signal for a lane change". The officer would come up to the driver and ask "Do you know why I pulled you over?" and so on. He would then ask, "Have you been drinking this evening?" Upon which the clever driver would USUALLY responds like this, "Only one or 2 beers." BAM! the fool just "admitted to consuming alcohol before driving." Time for a field sobriety test.

-CharlesC
 
Top