imported post
I read through some of that bullshit and qouted some of the folks on that forum as well and my opinion afterwards. Seems to me like they really don't care....
“In a strict literary sense a person's 2nd amendment right is violated anytime he is forced to give up his firearm. Unless the firearm holder voluntarily gives up his weapon, his 2nd amendment right has been violated... again, in a strict literary sense.
Me, I don't mind an officer disarming me for a stop as long as it's done with respect and professionalism. On the same token, my carrying a weapon demands I show curtesy and respect to the officer. "My license is in my back pocket next to my firearm officer. How would like me to proceed?" Or, "My registration is in the glove box with my Firearm, officer. Should I wait for your queue to open it?"
The fact of the matter here is that LEO's and CCW holders are so passionate about their situations that they cannot objectively debate the situation.
One officer here says that guns are meant to kill people and will therefore be removed from a CCW on a traffic stop. However, it is stance that guns ARE NOT MEANT TO kill people that made CCW's acceptable in the first place. I mean really, if we interviewed every PO and CCW why they carry their weapon would the dominate answer be "so I can kill people?"
I've read in these CCW threads PO's saying that what the CCW thinks of them is not important only to read in another read how unfairly LE is displayed in the media and that people don't get the right image of them. And then, when a civilian uses an awesome tool like this forum to interact with a large number of officers from a wide variety of locales they're told that LE doesn't care about their image or how they're thought of. Unless of course, someone says something nice and then it's all "thank you, we don't hear that too often. We really appreciate it when someone makes that gesture." And then later say something like, "these forums are a place for LE to not be LE."
Well, that's bull****. You're a police officer 24/7. Whether you want to be or not. The kids that look up to you consider you a PO 24/7 and the lady getting raped, the guy getting robbed, they all consider you a PO 24/7. On this forum you're a PO 24/7.
The fact is right now no one is looking out for the image of LE, not even LE itself. Are you really surprised to learn that many civilians believe PO's to be arrogant, above the law, corrupt individuals who consider the rights of the people a distant second to themselves.
I have enough life experience to understand the complexities of the matter and the risks and nature of LE. Because of this, I know that view is not reflective of LE in it's entirety. But I also grew up being told that being a PO was a noble profession where ordinary people risk their lives and put their safety second to the people they serve. But the world of LE has changed from the time of those stories that my grandfather told me. And in my mind its changed for the worse. Does that mean PO's are bad people, of course not. Does it mean it's the PO's fault... not entirely. But there are things PO's can take charge of and change for the better.
So, in regards to disarming a CCW, why can't we just get to a census:
Some PO's will do it for safety reasons, others will not. If you're expected to disarm yourself, do so for the officer's peace of mind and to help out a man that may one day be taking a bullet in your or your family's defense.
And leave it at that. That's all us civs need to know; and civs that's the least you can do for these fine men in uniform”.
Me: Nicely put I think….
“We need not be so full of ourselves. Our stuff smells just like everyone else’s. And, we could, be wrong - even when debating [size=those lowly civilians]!”
Me: I don’t appreciate being called a “lowly civilian”….jerk!!
“Regardless of the situation, YOU HAVE A GUN, AND GUNS ARE USED TO KILL PEOPLE. It’s as simple as that”.
Me: Hmmm…I disagree with that statement, only in the hands of criminals do they kill.
“Get over yourself, if you get your gun taken away for all of 15 minutes its not going to kill you. But you having a firearm could kill me so consider your gun mine till the stop is over”.
Me: And you are then illegally seizing my weapon if you do so with that clause and phrase especially if I get it on digital recording for your boss to hear…
Again….”In a strict literary sense a person's 2nd amendment right is violated anytime he is forced to give up his firearm. Unless the firearm holder voluntarily gives up his weapon, his 2nd amendment right has been violated... again, in a strict literary sense”.
“Very well put Firefiend. I'm not yet a PO, I'm in the works for the Sheriffs office. I have been a CCW holder for about 8 yrs. I have no problem relinquishing my firearm. The problem is that I have never been "asked" to. 4 years ago, second date with a new lady, in the middle of dinner. I was tackled by an off duty PO because when I sat down without my coat I printed and he thought I was much too young to have a CCW. I think that fits in the "over the hood" type of disarming. I think that PO should have the right to disarm for thier protection and I think CCW holders should respect that. But, there are a few "chest beaters" around that might take it over the top from time to time. Lying on the ground cuffed in a restaurant for ten minutes is a bit much. I did however get my meal for free and the PO was "talked" to about the incident, according to the apology letter I received”.
Me: I would have sued him….could of broken a collar bone or arm in the process thus possibly preventing him from getting the job as a Sheriff. Talk about over-reacting…geez.