California specific - Open Mag pouch or closed... Do I need to care?

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Just looking on to starting this open carry business.

At the Range I usually just use my FannyPack if there is no table.

Do I need ot be concerned about an open Open type Mag pouch or can I use a Mag pouch that covers?

Also is there technical reasons to go either way?

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From : http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/attachment.php?id=2487

Case Law (People v. Hale 1974) regards a concealed magazine as the equivalent of a concealed firearm; it’s an "essential component of the firearm". A full magazine in a holder on a belt should be the same as a firearm carried openly in a belt holster. A speed loader isn’t part of a firearm; you can carry a speed loader concealed in your pocket without worry of prosecution.

Also: http://californiaopencarry.org/faq.html

I've heard concealed magazines are illegal. Is that true?


While there is no code that supports this, there was an appellate case in 1974, People v. Hale, that ruled this way. It ruled that although the firearm in question was not concealed, the magazine was, and that only partial concealment is still concealment, and that the magazine was an "essential component" of the firearm. The logic is tortured beyond belief, but it's currently case law. One way to avoid this pitfall is to carry your magazines in belt holsters, so that they match the 12025(f) language of "carried openly in belt holsters". Another option would be to keep an unloaded magazine in the firearm, thereby "completing" the firearm, and invalidating the asinine "essential component" logic.

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Mykal wrote:

From : http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/attachment.php?id=2487

Case Law (People v. Hale 1974) regards a concealed magazine as the equivalent of a concealed firearm; it’s an "essential component of the firearm". A full magazine in a holder on a belt should be the same as a firearm carried openly in a belt holster. A speed loader isn’t part of a firearm; you can carry a speed loader concealed in your pocket without worry of prosecution.

Also: http://californiaopencarry.org/faq.html

I've heard concealed magazines are illegal. Is that true?


While there is no code that supports this, there was an appellate case in 1974, People v. Hale, that ruled this way. It ruled that although the firearm in question was not concealed, the magazine was, and that only partial concealment is still concealment, and that the magazine was an "essential component" of the firearm. The logic is tortured beyond belief, but it's currently case law. One way to avoid this pitfall is to carry your magazines in belt holsters, so that they match the 12025(f) language of "carried openly in belt holsters". Another option would be to keep an unloaded magazine in the firearm, thereby "completing" the firearm, and invalidating the asinine "essential component" logic.

Click to expand...

I carry my mags in a mag pouch and with one empty mag in my Glock. When I was at the San Diego Open Carry Meet, one SDPD inspected my weapon with the magazine in the weapon...he didn't say anything about it. Just put the mag back in and returned my weapon.

Forgot to mention, go over to El Cajon Gun Exchange, they have some Uncle Mikes Universal Mag holders that are the black nylon type with the velcro closures for like twenty bucks I think is what I paid for mine. That's what I use when I OC.

I sent you a PM, why don't you gimme a call and we can go OC together and see what happens.

Hope that helps.....

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So the general feeling is:

Even if the magazine is in a pouch that hides most of it, a pouch with over flaps to retain them, becasue it is in a easily identifiable pouch/holster it is not concealed.

Is that a correct statement?

Further more could one use an old Luger Style flap holster that conceals the entire weapon and still not be considered concealed?

Here is where my concerns lay. If use a Flpa type pouch where a majority of the Mag is concealed, then could I be charged with violation under 12025?

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I use a double flap-type SafariLand mag pouch for my 1911 mags. It passed muster with the SDPD, so I would say that a flap type pouch is okay.
A flap-type holster, however, might not be so good. People now days wear so many items in pouches on their belts that an officer might assert that a gun in a covered pouch is concealed or disguised.

I live in San Diego, but I have open carried in Santee (Wal-mart, Mulvaney's) frequently with no problems, but I have not interacted with law-enforcement there yet.

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USPSureShot wrote:

Just looking on to starting this open carry business.

At the Range I usually just use my FannyPack if there is no table.

Do I need ot be concerned about an open Open type Mag pouch or can I use a Mag pouch that covers?

Also is there technical reasons to go either way?

Click to expand...

In my detention with local police, I was carrying my magzines in a double mag pouch that were covered with velcro flaps. Since it was attached to a duty belt in plain sight, it would be difficult to mistake it as anything else. I suffered no ill effects of carrying this way, however I did purchase am open top double mag carrier designed for use with the duty belt.

Aside from the issues of concealed magazines, there is definately an improvement with access. It is certainly more discrete that tearing open velco.