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Thread: Lynnhaven Mall

  1. #1
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    Yesterday (11 Mar) I went to the Lynnhaven mall to enjoy some Cold Stone with my girlfriend and I had my usual carry, my Glock 21. While walking through the mall to get to the food court, an employee from Alltel tried to stop me by saying, "Hey you". I thought he wanted to sell me a phone so I just kept walking. Just as I sat down to eat my ice cream, the same employee tapped me on my shoulder and said that weapons were not allowed in the mall. I told him that I looked on the door I came in at and saw no posting that stated weapons were banned. I had entered though the Barns & Noble bookstore.

    After he left, I went back to check again while my girlfriend was in a store trying on clothes. Again, I saw nothing. Near the B&N there is a customer service table so I told them that I saw no posting about weapons and asked them if OCing was allowed. The man (should say kid because he looked about 17) said it was not allowed.

    I said "OK" and then I went to my car and put my carry in my trunk.

    I'm all well and good with not carrying IF ITS POSTED. This is just for others to be aware that someone there might stop/talk to you about it.

    I think until they post it on all doors, I'm going to continue to carry there. Next time, if they have a problem, they can bring a security guard to me and he can ask me to leave.



    I guess they only want victims to shop there...:?

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    I usualy cc in the malls and for some strange reason carry extra mags when I go to gun safe zones.

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    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
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    If it's not posted and I'm not sure I CC, too.

    Funny how we feel like we need more ammo in crime-spree zones, ain't it?

    :?
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    Pushing them will force them to post signs and make it so those that wanna CC be banned from doing so.
    Carry On.

    Ed

    VirginiaOpenCarry.Org (Coins, Shirts and Patches)
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    For VA Open Carry Cards send a S.A.2S.E. to: Ed's OC cards, Box 16143, Wash DC 20041-6143 (they are free but some folks enclose a couple bucks too)

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    ed wrote:
    Pushing them will force them to post signs and make it so those that wanna CC be banned from doing so.
    Agreed.

    At the moment there is no sign so all who enter and not get seen are good to go.

  6. #6
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    I usually listen to the Verizon guy.....he seems to know more
    James Reynolds

    NRA Certified Firearms Instructor - Pistol, Shotgun, Home Firearms Safety, Refuse To Be A Victim
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    im agree...and to all those that read this.....even if there is a no firearms allowed...i follow the rule that says i have a legal right to be some place and shop there...im sorry but sometimes i feel it might be better to be labaled a criminal than a casualty.....i jsut dont get it....my rule..no metal detecters...and if they can find it.....im sorry again..but unless i see a marked police car outside the place i chose to spend my money...then i might feel safer...if not...then i take my life and my families and also the innocents into my hands....i know that it goes against the rules...but darn it...the rules are not there to help protect us...only help keep insurence costs down for the business...again I stress...IMHO...IMHO....so there...its a shame the rules might/maybe/could force use to be criminals just to live another day on this Earth...i try to follow them 100% of the time...and to any trolls...well i do follow them 100% of the time....sometimes every once in awile i wish it was 1880 something...then there would not be an issue to OC/CC anywhere....GOD BLESS THE UNITED STATES...



    sorry if i offened anyone..

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    ProShooter wrote:
    I usually listen to the Verizon guy.....he seems to know more
    But can you hear him now?



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    i can..now that alltell isa owned by verizon!!!!

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    Should have an OC flash mob. That'd teach 'em.

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    At Lynnhaven Mall, IT IS posted. However, it is only posted at the mall entrances. If you enter by way of one of the big 'anchor' stores, that sign is not there. So, if you want to carry there, CC and enter through one of the anchor stores so you can honestly say that there was no sign where you came in. If you carry past the sign, you are automatically trespassing. If you come in the other doors I mentioned, then they have to ask you to leave and you have to refuse in order to be guilty of trespassing.

    I agree, don't mention signs if they don't. Just comply with their direction to leave.


  12. #12
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    vbnative73 wrote:
    At Lynnhaven Mall, IT IS posted. However, it is only posted at the mall entrances. If you enter by way of one of the big 'anchor' stores, that sign is not there. So, if you want to carry there, CC and enter through one of the anchor stores so you can honestly say that there was no sign where you came in. If you carry past the sign, you are automatically trespassing. If you come in the other doors I mentioned, then they have to ask you to leave and you have to refuse in order to be guilty of trespassing.

    I agree, don't mention signs if they don't. Just comply with their direction to leave.
    This particular assertion has been widely discussed in other threads here in the Virginia forum. It is not universally accepted that your statement is correct, namely that mere presence of a sign meets the standard for notification with respect to Virginia trespassing laws.

    Just wanted to let new folks know this is not a cut and dried issue.

    TFred

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    cafemonkey wrote:
    Should have an OC flash mob. That'd teach 'em.
    :shock:

    Interesting idea....
    Why open carry? Because 1911 > 911.

  14. #14
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    Yep, not all entrances are posted. The last time I used the entrance with the carosseul (however you spell it), it was NOT posted.

    Plus the way the wording goes on some of the signs that ARE posted... makes you wonder. The sign by the theater says 'No firearms and no illegal weapons'

    Another sign says 'No illegal weapons or firearms'.

    The problem is, the signs CAN be interpreted differently.

    Also, Lynnhaven Mall is no longer managed by Simon Properties. The doors have a new management company listed (don't remember the name).

    But yes as others have mentioned, I CC there and use an entrance without a posting.


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    Well I will not enter the side doors and ruin it for fellow brother because I must OC i just want go in OC'ing and start anything about signs not being on the doors that will mess it up for the CC.I can wait a few months. My question is this all Hampton Roads malls? I went into MacAuther a while ago for maybe 10 or 15 mins and had no problem but didnt know.

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    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
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    They are all managed by different companies, so each one may be different.

    The only time I go to MacArthur is to park for a show at the Norva.
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
    Novos ordo seclorum ~ Mustaine

    Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

  17. #17
    Regular Member vbnative73's Avatar
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    Lynnhaven Mall is owned by General Growth Properties.

    Contact them via http://www.lynnhavenmall.com/html/contactus.asp



    MacArthur Center is owned by Taubman Centers Inc.

    Contact them via http://www.shopmacarthur.com/infodes...estionBox.html



  18. #18
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    TFred wrote:
    vbnative73 wrote:
    At Lynnhaven Mall, IT IS posted. However, it is only posted at the mall entrances. If you enter by way of one of the big 'anchor' stores, that sign is not there. So, if you want to carry there, CC and enter through one of the anchor stores so you can honestly say that there was no sign where you came in. If you carry past the sign, you are automatically trespassing. If you come in the other doors I mentioned, then they have to ask you to leave and you have to refuse in order to be guilty of trespassing.

    I agree, don't mention signs if they don't. Just comply with their direction to leave.
    This particular assertion has been widely discussed in other threads here in the Virginia forum. It is not universally accepted that your statement is correct, namely that mere presence of a sign meets the standard for notification with respect to Virginia trespassing laws.

    Just wanted to let new folks know this is not a cut and dried issue.

    TFred
    So if the mere presence of the sign doesn't meet the standard for notification when carrying what does??

  19. #19
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    When will folks learn that asking a store clerk is not smart? and in a B&N no less. You really think they are going o tell you its ok? If the law is that it needs to be posted and its not then there is no need to ask.

  20. #20
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    GLENGLOCKER wrote:
    TFred wrote:
    vbnative73 wrote:
    At Lynnhaven Mall, IT IS posted. However, it is only posted at the mall entrances. If you enter by way of one of the big 'anchor' stores, that sign is not there. So, if you want to carry there, CC and enter through one of the anchor stores so you can honestly say that there was no sign where you came in. If you carry past the sign, you are automatically trespassing. If you come in the other doors I mentioned, then they have to ask you to leave and you have to refuse in order to be guilty of trespassing.

    I agree, don't mention signs if they don't. Just comply with their direction to leave.
    This particular assertion has been widely discussed in other threads here in the Virginia forum. It is not universally accepted that your statement is correct, namely that mere presence of a sign meets the standard for notification with respect to Virginia trespassing laws.

    Just wanted to let new folks know this is not a cut and dried issue.

    TFred
    So if the mere presence of the sign doesn't meet the standard for notification when carrying what does??
    IANAL.

    If you search on this forum for "trespassing" I'm sure you will find several threads where it has been discussed almost ad nauseam.

    One consensus is that in order to meet the notification requirement for trespassing in Virginia, someone with the proper authority to do so must actually notify you that you must leave. The reason behind this line of thought is basically since notification is a requirement, it cannot be proven that you read a sign, thus, it cannot be proven that you were notified. It is not a requirement to read all signs upon entering a place of business.

    Something like that, and again, IANAL... There is much written here already, and much better than I have just summarized.

    TFred

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    Zero4910 wrote:
    Yesterday (11 Mar) I went to the Lynnhaven mall to enjoy some Cold Stone with my girlfriend and I had my usual carry, my Glock 21. While walking through the mall to get to the food court, an employee from Alltel tried to stop me by saying, "Hey you". I thought he wanted to sell me a phone so I just kept walking. Just as I sat down to eat my ice cream, the same employee tapped me on my shoulder and said that weapons were not allowed in the mall. I told him that I looked on the door I came in at and saw no posting that stated weapons were banned. I had entered though the Barns & Noble bookstore.

    After he left, I went back to check again while my girlfriend was in a store trying on clothes. Again, I saw nothing. Near the B&N there is a customer service table so I told them that I saw no posting about weapons and asked them if OCing was allowed. The man (should say kid because he looked about 17) said it was not allowed.

    I said "OK" and then I went to my car and put my carry in my trunk.

    I'm all well and good with not carrying IF ITS POSTED. This is just for others to be aware that someone there might stop/talk to you about it.

    I think until they post it on all doors, I'm going to continue to carry there. Next time, if they have a problem, they can bring a security guard to me and he can ask me to leave.
    This has to be the worst approach to mall carry I have ever heard:

    1. Encouraging employess to post.

    2. Asking employees if carry is allowed.

    3. Putting your gun int eh car and continuig to spend money after being harassed for carry.

    4. Publicly threatening to refuse an order to leave an establishment by an agent of an owner unless security is called.

    If this is how folks are going to behave, please don't open carry.

  22. #22
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    Mike wrote:
    Zero4910 wrote:
    Yesterday (11 Mar) I went to the Lynnhaven mall to enjoy some Cold Stone with my girlfriend and I had my usual carry, my Glock 21. While walking through the mall to get to the food court, an employee from Alltel tried to stop me by saying, "Hey you". I thought he wanted to sell me a phone so I just kept walking. Just as I sat down to eat my ice cream, the same employee tapped me on my shoulder and said that weapons were not allowed in the mall. I told him that I looked on the door I came in at and saw no posting that stated weapons were banned. I had entered though the Barns & Noble bookstore.

    After he left, I went back to check again while my girlfriend was in a store trying on clothes. Again, I saw nothing. Near the B&N there is a customer service table so I told them that I saw no posting about weapons and asked them if OCing was allowed. The man (should say kid because he looked about 17) said it was not allowed.

    I said "OK" and then I went to my car and put my carry in my trunk.

    I'm all well and good with not carrying IF ITS POSTED. This is just for others to be aware that someone there might stop/talk to you about it.

    I think until they post it on all doors, I'm going to continue to carry there. Next time, if they have a problem, they can bring a security guard to me and he can ask me to leave.
    This has to be the worst approach to mall carry I have ever heard:

    1. Encouraging employess to post.

    2. Asking employees if carry is allowed.

    3. Putting your gun int eh car and continuig to spend money after being harassed for carry.

    4. Publicly threatening to refuse an order to leave an establishment by an agent of an owner unless security is called.

    If this is how folks are going to behave, please don't open carry.
    Plus, I'm sure in 99 percent of businesses if you ask an employee if you have a gun in there the answer will be no.

  23. #23
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    Mike wrote:
    Zero4910 wrote:
    Yesterday (11 Mar) I went to the Lynnhaven mall to enjoy some Cold Stone with my girlfriend and I had my usual carry, my Glock 21. While walking through the mall to get to the food court, an employee from Alltel tried to stop me by saying, "Hey you". I thought he wanted to sell me a phone so I just kept walking. Just as I sat down to eat my ice cream, the same employee tapped me on my shoulder and said that weapons were not allowed in the mall. I told him that I looked on the door I came in at and saw no posting that stated weapons were banned. I had entered though the Barns & Noble bookstore.

    After he left, I went back to check again while my girlfriend was in a store trying on clothes. Again, I saw nothing. Near the B&N there is a customer service table so I told them that I saw no posting about weapons and asked them if OCing was allowed. The man (should say kid because he looked about 17) said it was not allowed.

    I said "OK" and then I went to my car and put my carry in my trunk.

    I'm all well and good with not carrying IF ITS POSTED. This is just for others to be aware that someone there might stop/talk to you about it.

    I think until they post it on all doors, I'm going to continue to carry there. Next time, if they have a problem, they can bring a security guard to me and he can ask me to leave.
    This has to be the worst approach to mall carry I have ever heard:

    1.* Encouraging employess to post.

    2.* Asking employees if carry is allowed.

    3.* Putting your gun int eh car and continuig to spend money after being harassed for carry.

    4.*

    If this is how folks are going to behave, please don't open carry.

    1. Alltel employees have NO say whatsoever in the matter of open carrying in the mall so they can post here all they want, it makes no difference to me.

    2. I only asked STORE management because I didn't feel like being arrested.

    3. Yes I put my gun in the trunk but I wasn't about to leave my girlfriend in the mall while I twittled my thumbs outside.

    4. And for "Publicly threatening to refuse an order to leave an establishment by an agent of an owner unless security is called." is a little much to say when the Alltel store is a keyosk and I needed to walk past it to get where I was going. He came to find me long after I had passed the Alltel store. I was already upstairs getting ready to eat.

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