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Thread: OT: Pistol/Revolver License Application Backlog

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    Regular Member virginiatuck's Avatar
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    It's been just over three weeks since the submission of my Pistol/Revolver application. I called the NH State Police Permits & Licensing unit since their FAQ says to feel free to call them if you don't hear or receive anything within three weeks.

    They said that it is taking up to eight weeks to process applications at this time. It's not a problem for me because I won't be visiting until later in the summer/fall. Hopefully it won't take *that* long.

    Apparently there have been an overwhelming number of applications. And no matter that the law says "14 days", if they can't get them done in time, they can't get them done in time.

    I wonder if it's the fact that some states will honor non-resident NH licenses for concealed carry that is driving the high number of applications to New Hampshire? Or if there is also a growing demand for resident licenses in NH?

    Does anyone foresee the New Hampshire legislature changing their policy of issuing non-resident licenses in the future? Or changing the concealed handgun laws in any other way in response to the high demand and longer than 14-day wait times?


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    Interesting question. Even an increased demand by residents would not impact non-resident applications since resident permits are handled by local PD. State Police handles only non-resident applications.

    I wonder what the story is. Can't get them done or not, it's still a violation of the law.

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    Check out http://www.NHLiberty.org They have and critique all the proposed NH firearm bills.

    To help this and other questions of NH laws go to the NH state web sites:

    http://www.nh.gov/constitution/constitution.html
    http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/...s/default.html
    http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/.../159/159-6.htm

    You wrote ... "And no matter that the law says "14 days", if they can't get them done in time, they can't get them done in time." ...

    I just want to point out this "conditioning" we have been subjected to when we make up reasons for the state not to follow the same laws that they demand us to follow....

    "Can't get them done or not, it's still a violation of the law."



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    Regular Member virginiatuck's Avatar
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    First Responder wrote:
    Check out http://www.NHLiberty.org They have and critique all the proposed NH firearm bills.

    To help this and other questions of NH laws go to the NH state web sites:

    http://www.nh.gov/constitution/constitution.html
    http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/...s/default.html
    http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/.../159/159-6.htm

    You wrote ... "And no matter that the law says "14 days", if they can't get them done in time, they can't get them done in time." ...

    I just want to point out this "conditioning" we have been subjected to when we make up reasons for the state not to follow the same laws that they demand us to follow....

    "Can't get them done or not, it's still a violation of the law."

    No court can amend the laws of physics to accommodate the laws of man. That's all I was implying, nothing more. Hypothetically, if there are 50,000 permits to print, and it's only physically possible for them to process and print 1,000 per day, it will take 50 days to process and print them.

    I'm going to let them slide at least up to the 8 weeks they told me on the phone; just as a cop or a judge would let someone slide on a minor offense. To me, that's all it is right now, a minor offense. It'd be different if this were my home state or I was in a bigger hurry or didn't have any other options; but there are enough problems to worry about and fix here in Virginia, let alone states in which I do not reside, vote, or pay taxes. New Hampshire is not my responsibility.

    Beyond eight weeks I'm going to take action, but not until then. And if it's going to cost me a lot of time and money, you can bet I'm not going to pursue it. I'd be better off spending my time and money vacationing somewhere other than New Hampshire/New England.

    I'm not "conditioned" that states are allowed to break laws, thank you very much. I am conditioned to wisely choose my battles and how to spend my time and money.

    Thanks for nhliberty.org. I didn't know about that site and I will check it out.


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    virginiatuck wrote:
    ... Hypothetically, if there are 50,000 permits to print, and it's only physically possible for them to process and print 1,000 per day, it will take 50 days to process and print them.

    I'm going to let them slide at least up to the 8 weeks they told me on the phone; just as a cop or a judge would let someone slide on a minor offense. To me, that's all it is right now, a minor offense. It'd be different if this were my home state or I was in a bigger hurry or didn't have any other options; but there are enough problems to worry about and fix here in Virginia, let alone states in which I do not reside, vote, or pay taxes. New Hampshire is not my responsibility.
    I agree with you that there are legitimate delays. You should have your license within the time frame that was quoted. I should have noted that New Hampshire doesn't "play games" like some states and are very good at issuing licenses. I know about picking one's "battles" and Connecticut is not that state so I will be moving to NH where my time and money will make more of a difference in having my voice heard.



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    This rush for permits has expanded at an incredible rate, then. When I moved from NH to CT, my non-resident permit arrived in 10 days... that was in September of 2008. 6 months later and they're out to 8 weeks.

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    virginiatuck wrote:
    Apparently there have been an overwhelming number of applications. And no matter that the law says "14 days", if they can't get them done in time, they can't get them done in time.
    Wrong, wrong, wrong. The law requires them to get it done in 14 days and they are subject to the law as much as you are. You can file a writ of mandamus in a New Hampshire court and it will issue you a temporary license. 8 weeks is completely unacceptable. If that happens to any New Hampshire resident, I will be sure to help them sue that agency. Someone's safety should not be jeapordized because a few bureaucrats can't follow the law.


    I wonder if it's the fact that some states will honor non-resident NH licenses for concealed carry that is driving the high number of applications to New Hampshire? Or if there is also a growing demand for resident licenses in NH?

    There's a growing demand for all things gun since Obama got elected, here and everywhere.
    Does anyone foresee the New Hampshire legislature changing their policy of issuing non-resident licenses in the future? Or changing the concealed handgun laws in any other way in response to the high demand and longer than 14-day wait times?
    No, gun control cannot get through the NH legislature because we have an active group of gun rights activists here who won't let it happen. As long as they continue to show up, our rights are safe.

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    Message at State Police Permit # now says 10 weeks ... been waiting 8 so far... I suspect nonresidents are not a top priority for most state governments (tho they are making some money on this).

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    LiveFreeOrDie wrote:
    virginiatuck wrote:
    Apparently there have been an overwhelming number of applications. And no matter that the law says "14 days", if they can't get them done in time, they can't get them done in time.
    Wrong, wrong, wrong. The law requires them to get it done in 14 days and they are subject to the law as much as you are. You can file a writ of mandamus in a New Hampshire court and it will issue you a temporary license. 8 weeks is completely unacceptable. If that happens to any New Hampshire resident, I will be sure to help them sue that agency. Someone's safety should not be jeapordized because a few bureaucrats can't follow the law.
    LiveFree...
    As you previously pointed out, per NH RSA Chp XII sec. 159.6 http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/html/XII/159/159-6.htmit a permit shall be issued within 14 days ...

    Are you in contact with your NH rep ( or Rep Itse, Sen. Winters) to bring this delay to their attention? I'm not in NH yet but I could forward this forum topic to them.



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    LiveFreeOrDie wrote:
    virginiatuck wrote:
    Apparently there have been an overwhelming number of applications. And no matter that the law says "14 days", if they can't get them done in time, they can't get them done in time.
    Wrong, wrong, wrong. The law requires them to get it done in 14 days and they are subject to the law as much as you are. You can file a writ of mandamus in a New Hampshire court and it will issue you a temporary license. 8 weeks is completely unacceptable. If that happens to any New Hampshire resident, I will be sure to help them sue that agency. Someone's safety should not be jeapordized because a few bureaucrats can't follow the law.
    From a hyper-technical point of view, you are of course correct. But you don't seem to give any leeway for circumstances, and that's wrong.

    An anology for you: I think a lot of states have laws to the effect that caraccidents should be moved awayfrom traffic. Suppose you are in an accident and for some reason your vehicle must be manually pushed over to the shoulder. However, you fell the day before and hurt your shoulder quite badly, and thus are unable to push your vehicle. So the responding officer gives you a ticket for not following the law. Would you think that the ticket was fair? Probably not. However, based on the rigidstandard that you have set for NH's officials, you would not be able to complain.

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    Flyer22 wrote:
    LiveFreeOrDie wrote:
    virginiatuck wrote:
    Apparently there have been an overwhelming number of applications. And no matter that the law says "14 days", if they can't get them done in time, they can't get them done in time.
    Wrong, wrong, wrong. The law requires them to get it done in 14 days and they are subject to the law as much as you are. You can file a writ of mandamus in a New Hampshire court and it will issue you a temporary license. 8 weeks is completely unacceptable. If that happens to any New Hampshire resident, I will be sure to help them sue that agency. Someone's safety should not be jeapordized because a few bureaucrats can't follow the law.
    From a hyper-technical point of view, you are of course correct. But you don't seem to give any leeway for circumstances, and that's wrong.

    An anology for you: I think a lot of states have laws to the effect that caraccidents should be moved awayfrom traffic. Suppose you are in an accident and for some reason your vehicle must be manually pushed over to the shoulder. However, you fell the day before and hurt your shoulder quite badly, and thus are unable to push your vehicle. So the responding officer gives you a ticket for not following the law. Would you think that the ticket was fair? Probably not. However, based on the rigidstandard that you have set for NH's officials, you would not be able to complain.
    First, the law allows you to get a temporary carry license from a court and I recommend anyone who is waiting beyond the statutory period to take advantage of that (and have the police pay for the legal costs of doing so, as the statute allows).

    Second, no, I don't care that the police have harder circumstances. They can pull some of their officers from arresting non-violent people and put them into a job that actually protects the public. I'm not willing for people to be put in danger because the police can't follow the law. Maybe folks in Colorado are. They won't have any sympathy if you carry concealed without a license because of circumstances; I don't have any sympathy for their breaking of the law either.

    Besides, it takes 10 minutes or less to process a carry license. All that is needed is a background check (which can be done with a simple telephone call) and then typing up the piece of paper. That's it. They can handle it.


    Your example doesn't hold water because this is the statute in NH:

    "If a vehicle stopped in the roadway is movable and its driver is capable of moving it, the driver shall immediately move the vehicle to the shoulder or to another safe area off of the traveled portion of the roadway." RSA 267:37-b.

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    First Responder wrote:
    Are you in contact with your NH rep ( or Rep Itse, Sen. Winters) to bring this delay to their attention? I'm not in NH yet but I could forward this forum topic to them.
    Winters is a representative, not a senator (FYI )

    No, I haven't contacted anyone since I haven't had any problems. I got my license on day 14.

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    Now 12 weeks.... Mark

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    I got my permit in 3 days. Only because the CLEO was out of town. If he had been in the office it would have been about 15 minutes.

    Non-residents are different because they confirm with your home state if your permit is really valid and not forged. That is where the backlog is (at least that is what they claim). If you push the issue you may get a 'denied due to being unable to confirm your home-state permit." or something like that.

    Worst case, you posted on an Open Carry forum, just Open Carry.

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    Absolutely. Only reason I want this permit is I hate to OC for extended periods in the rain or snow in the national forests, etc., stainless steel SP101 or not. (Of course, nonresidents don't have legislators to complain to, either...). Will let you know how long it takes. Best, Mark

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    Mark (IL) wrote:
    Absolutely. Only reason I want this permit is I hate to OC for extended periods in the rain or snow in the national forests, etc., stainless steel SP101 or not. (Of course, nonresidents don't have legislators to complain to, either...). Will let you know how long it takes. Best, Mark
    Well you said July... hopefully it won't be snowing too much But I hear you on the rain. A clear rain jacket could in theory maybe work

    Also, to answer your original question, the turn-around time increased greatly sometime around December 2007/January 2008.

    Based on your OP it sounded like you applied around mid-February. I heard they were getting to Feb. applications a couple of weeks ago. Hopefully you'll have the license in the next 0-3 weeks.

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    Well, that may explain it. I sent in my non-resident application about 4-6 weeks ago and the check hasn't cleared the bank yet. I was getting concerned that they had not received it. I'll try to remember to call next week and see if they can even tell me if they received it.

    Thanks for the info guys.
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    Regular Member virginiatuck's Avatar
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    deepdiver wrote:
    Well, that may explain it. I sent in my non-resident application about 4-6 weeks ago and the check hasn't cleared the bank yet. I was getting concerned that they had not received it. I'll try to remember to call next week and see if they can even tell me if they received it.

    Thanks for the info guys.
    They will not confirm whether they have received your application. Verification of receipt would only exacerbate the backlog.

    I have opted not to pursue the writ of mandamus and will instead wait it out. As of last Monday they were working on permits received on February 13th. They also said that they were working through weekends.

    They said my permit should arrive within one week after my check clears.


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    deepdiver wrote:
    Well, that may explain it. I sent in my non-resident application about 4-6 weeks ago and the check hasn't cleared the bank yet. I was getting concerned that they had not received it. I'll try to remember to call next week and see if they can even tell me if they received it.

    Thanks for the info guys.
    Feb 18th is the date mine was sent out and I am still waiting for my non resident permit. Assuming it took an entire week to get there by first class mail, that would make it just short of 3 months.

    In contrast, my Pennsylvania non-resident permit took just 3 weeks from mail out to mail back. I don't get it, how can one state have so much an issue and another with even more non-resident applications like PA have so little trouble? :?

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    Regular Member virginiatuck's Avatar
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    FMCDH wrote:
    Feb 18th is the date mine was sent out and I am still waiting for my non resident permit. Assuming it took an entire week to get there by first class mail, that would make it just short of 3 months.

    In contrast, my Pennsylvania non-resident permit took just 3 weeks from mail out to mail back. I don't get it, how can one state have so much an issue and another with even more non-resident applications like PA have so little trouble? :?
    A first-class letter sent USPS from Seattle to Concord should take three days.

    http://postcalc.usps.gov/MailService...Restrict=False

    Why does NH process a lower volume of permits slower than PA processes a higher volume? Probably because non-resident NH permits are all processed by a single department in Concord, NH; rather than in PA where permits are processed within the county where the application is made. PA would probably have the same backlog if all non-resident permits had to be processed by Harrisburg.

    Quote timf343:
    Even an increased demand by residents would not impact non-resident applications since resident permits are handled by local PD. State Police handles only non-resident applications.

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    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    virginiatuck wrote:
    deepdiver wrote:
    Well, that may explain it. I sent in my non-resident application about 4-6 weeks ago and the check hasn't cleared the bank yet. I was getting concerned that they had not received it. I'll try to remember to call next week and see if they can even tell me if they received it.

    Thanks for the info guys.
    They will not confirm whether they have received your application. Verification of receipt would only exacerbate the backlog.

    I have opted not to pursue the writ of mandamus and will instead wait it out. As of last Monday they were working on permits received on February 13th. They also said that they were working through weekends.

    They said my permit should arrive within one week after my check clears.
    Thanks!! I figured they would deposit the checks upon receipt and then process the applications as they got to them. Knowing that they don't deposit the check until they get further along in the process answers my question and quells my concern about their receipt of my application.
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    Regular Member FMCDH's Avatar
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    On another planet...

    Strangely enough and by some act of God I am sure, I got my Florida non-resident permit in only 70 days. My application packet was received by FDACS on 05 March and my permit was issued on the 13th of May, I received it today.

    They must be picking up steam over there, or else something or someone spurred them to stop dragging.

    Anyway, I'm happy. AND I got my Florida permit before I got my NH permit that was submitted on the 18th of Feb...who would have thought?! lol

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    Regular Member virginiatuck's Avatar
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    Application mailed: Feb. 18, 2009
    Date check cashed/cleared: Jun. 1, 2009
    Received license: Jun. 2 or 3, 2009
    Postmark: Jun 1, 2009
    Date issued (printed on license): May 27, 2009

    Given the 6/1 postmark it likely arrived in my mailbox on 6/3, but I was out of town until now so I can't say that with 100% certainty.

    Total time from application to receipt: 105 days (or 15 weeks)

    It's too bad it came a day before I got back, I could have used the license while I was on this recent trip. Nevertheless, I am still glad to have this NH license and will hopefully get to visit the great state of NH later this year and drive or be inside of a car while carrying.

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    You could have carried in NH on your VA permit. Since VA recognizes every states license, that means they recognize NH's. New Hampshire recognizes and states resident permit as long as that state recognizes NH's license. The state police website may not be up to date, but it doesn't have to be. The law does not require an agreement or anything.

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    Regular Member virginiatuck's Avatar
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    Jared wrote:
    You could have carried in NH on your VA permit. Since VA recognizes every states license, that means they recognize NH's. New Hampshire recognizes and states resident permit as long as that state recognizes NH's license. The state police website may not be up to date, but it doesn't have to be. The law does not require an agreement or anything.
    VA does not recognize every state's license. VA has some extraordinary requirements, such as 24/7 verification. Also in order to comply, NH may not allow a person to obtain a permit/license in NH who would be disqualified from obtaining a permit/license in VA. For at least one of those two reasons, NH and VA have not had reciprocity in the past. Unless something has changed recently, then I believe that NH does not recognize VA's permit.

    Virginia Code Section 18.2-308, Subsection P:
    P. A valid concealed handgun or concealed weapon permit or license issued by another state shall authorize the holder of such permit or license who is at least 21 years of age to carry a concealed handgun in the Commonwealth, provided (i) the issuing authority provides the means for instantaneous verification of the validity of all such permits or licenses issued within that state, accessible 24 hours a day, and (ii) except for the age of the permit or license holder and the type of weapon authorized to be carried, the requirements and qualifications of that state's law are adequate to prevent possession of a permit or license by persons who would be denied a permit in the Commonwealth under this section. The Superintendent of State Police shall (a) in consultation with the Office of the Attorney General determine whether states meet the requirements and qualifications of this section, (b) maintain a registry of such states on the Virginia Criminal Information Network (VCIN), and (c) make the registry available to law-enforcement officers for investigative purposes. The Superintendent of the State Police, in consultation with the Attorney General, may also enter into agreements for reciprocal recognition with any state qualifying for recognition under this subsection.

    See subsection E of 18.2-308 for disqualified persons.
    http://leg1.state.va.us/000/cod/18.2-308.HTM

    Edited to fix ambiguous grammar.


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