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  1. #1
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    My back door is about800 feet fromthe school zone line. When I walk the dog at night I oc. Can i get in to trouble with the law? I live Chesapeake, Va.The law says 1000 feet from the school zone. Can anyone help me?

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    Are we referring to the federal law? I don't know anything about Va. law but this is what I know about the federal law.


    Here is the wording of the main section:
    Title 18 U.S.C. Section 922, (Q)
    It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to possess a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone. [/b]
    [/b]



    There are a few exceptions to the law which, such as being on private property, having been licensed to carry a firearm by the state where the school zone is located, or the firearm being unloaded and in a locked case. Title 18 U.S.C. Section 921 Definitions determines that a school zone is within 1000 feet of a school.



    In 1990, Congress passed the Gun Free School Zones Act. In 1996, in United States vs. Lopez, the act was considered an unconstitutional extension of the commerce clause and thus was voided. Immediately after that, Congress created a nearly identical law that was the same nearly word for word, but simply modified it, declaring that all[/b] firearms have moved in interstate commerce and then declaring that anyone who possesses a firearm that has moved in interstate commerce in a school zone is breaking the law.

    Likely this federal law is stillunconstitutional. (see this article)As the court has already decided the original was unconstitutional, it is unlikely that Congress made it constitutional by declaring its constitutionality and declaring that it pertains to interstate commerce, as the new law is modified to do. I haven't heard of anyone being convicted since, but if someone was it would be a harsh federal felony offense.



    Also, the law specifies knowingly, or with reasonable cause to believe, so if you don't "knowingly", or with "reasonable cause to believe" do what the law prohibts then you would alsopotentially be okay.

    I'mnot a lawyer, and none of this is legaladvice.



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    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    rhnhjh79 wrote:
    My back door is about800 feet fromthe school zone line. When I walk the dog at night I oc. Can i get in to trouble with the law? I live Chesapeake, Va.The law says 1000 feet from the school zone. Can anyone help me?
    If you have a CHP in Virginia, you can carry open or concealed within 1000 feet of a school (ref: http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/922.html). You may not enter onto school property with the exception of picking up or letting off children while you remain in your vehicle.

    So a walk through your neighborhood while OC'ing or CC is perfectly legal in Virginia as long as you have a CHP.. which must be carried along with support ID when doing this under these stated circumstances.


    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

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    Regular Member Riana's Avatar
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    SouthernBoy wrote:
    So a walk through your neighborhood while OC'ing or CC is perfectly legal in Virginia as long as you have a CHP.. which must be carried along with support ID when doing this under these stated circumstances.
    Since our back yard actually borders the school yard, I opted to get my CHP because technically, I was not allowed to carry until I was a good distance from my house (there are two schools within a mile of my route to the range). Now, of course, if the weather ever clears up, I can even go for a walk.


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    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Riana wrote:
    SouthernBoy wrote:
    So a walk through your neighborhood while OC'ing or CC is perfectly legal in Virginia as long as you have a CHP.. which must be carried along with support ID when doing this under these stated circumstances.
    Since our back yard actually borders the school yard, I opted to get my CHP because technically, I was not allowed to carry until I was a good distance from my house (there are two schools within a mile of my route to the range). Now, of course, if the weather ever clears up, I can even go for a walk.
    Yeah, the law really makes no sense at all. Just another example of how the feds once again screwed things up. But there is a body of laws to consider so until we have enough gumption to change them, we're stuck with them. Which means a CHP is our only saving grace for random acts of accidental carrying or such within this ridiculous 1000 foot ring.

    What would be an interesting test would be this. Your proper borders that of a school. It would be interesting if, say on a nice day, you were out doing some yard work with your little friend strapped to your hip for all the world to see, while school was in session. No laws being broken there but it would be interesting to see what might transpire. Of course, I am not suggesting you become a test case for this. No way. Just a scenario to see what might happen.

    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

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    Regular Member Riana's Avatar
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    SouthernBoy wrote:
    Riana wrote:
    SouthernBoy wrote:
    So a walk through your neighborhood while OC'ing or CC is perfectly legal in Virginia as long as you have a CHP.. which must be carried along with support ID when doing this under these stated circumstances.
    Since our back yard actually borders the school yard, I opted to get my CHP because technically, I was not allowed to carry until I was a good distance from my house (there are two schools within a mile of my route to the range). Now, of course, if the weather ever clears up, I can even go for a walk.
    Yeah, the law really makes no sense at all. Just another example of how the feds once again screwed things up. But there is a body of laws to consider so until we have enough gumption to change them, we're stuck with them. Which means a CHP is our only saving grace for random acts of accidental carrying or such within this ridiculous 1000 foot ring.

    What would be an interesting test would be this. Your proper borders that of a school. It would be interesting if, say on a nice day, you were out doing some yard work with your little friend strapped to your hip for all the world to see, while school was in session. No laws being broken there but it would be interesting to see what might transpire. Of course, I am not suggesting you become a test case for this. No way. Just a scenario to see what might happen.
    Heavens, no. Heck, I now conceal if I walk down to the mailbox to get the mail. Several of the neighbors on our cul-de-sac would probably call the police if they saw I was armed at the mailbox. Not that I have to conceal - it's just easier for neighborly relations.

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    rhnhjh79 wrote:
    My back door is about800 feet fromthe school zone line. When I walk the dog at night I oc. Can i get in to trouble with the law? I live Chesapeake, Va.The law says 1000 feet from the school zone. Can anyone help me?
    Wait, wtf? I thought the 1000' rule was a California rule? You free-staters have to worry about that crap as well or what?

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    Wait, wtf? I thought the 1000' rule was a California rule? You free-staters have to worry about that crap as well or what?

    Well, in California if you do it, you're most likely going to be convicted. The state laws are enforced and seemingly enforceable.

    In other states, well, I guess that's up to everyone to decide for themselves whether the Federal law has any merit to it.

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    Just don't plant any trees in the back yard while carrying......

    And to be very safe look up citizens arrest statutes for when the leo
    impersonates a federal officer.

    I haven't OC'd into the school yet, been sheepishly CC there so far,
    but the day is comming. Well not totally accurate, I did OC all the time when
    I home schooled my child, in classroom, down the hall, even the principles office.
    Never a problem.

    But the schools should give me some slack, the principle seems to
    have been molesting one of the students, just disapeared and all
    very hush hush about what happened.
    He gets paid still though.





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    Regular Member Riana's Avatar
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    Felid`Maximus wrote:
    Wait, wtf? I thought the 1000' rule was a California rule? You free-staters have to worry about that crap as well or what?
    Well, in California if you do it, you're most likely going to be convicted. The state laws are enforced and seemingly enforceable.

    In other states, well, I guess that's up to everyone to decide for themselves whether the Federal law has any merit to it.
    It's a Federal law, not a state one (though the state may have one as well).

    As I understand it, though, if you have a permit to carry (in Virginia, that would be your concealed handgun permit - open carry requires no permit), then you're fine, as long as you don't actually set foot on school property (in your car is OK).

    It's really annoying, though - you have to map out where all the school zones are on a trip, just to be sure you don't run afoul of the 1000 foot rule, if you don't have a CHP.

    SlackwareRobert wrote:
    But the schools should give me some slack, the principal seems to have been molesting one of the students, just disapeared and all very hush hush about what happened.
    He gets paid still though.
    I could fix that without a firearm - just put me in a room with him and give me a pair of rusty kindergarten scissors, and a couple rolls of duct tape.

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    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Riana wrote:
    Felid`Maximus wrote:
    Wait, wtf? I thought the 1000' rule was a California rule? You free-staters have to worry about that crap as well or what?
    Well, in California if you do it, you're most likely going to be convicted. The state laws are enforced and seemingly enforceable.

    In other states, well, I guess that's up to everyone to decide for themselves whether the Federal law has any merit to it.
    It's a Federal law, not a state one (though the state may have one as well).

    As I understand it, though, if you have a permit to carry (in Virginia, that would be your concealed handgun permit - open carry requires no permit), then you're fine, as long as you don't actually set foot on school property (in your car is OK).

    It's really annoying, though - you have to map out where all the school zones are on a trip, just to be sure you don't run afoul of the 1000 foot rule, if you don't have a CHP.

    SlackwareRobert wrote:
    But the schools should give me some slack, the principal seems to have been molesting one of the students, just disapeared and all very hush hush about what happened.
    He gets paid still though.
    I could fix that without a firearm - just put me in a room with him and give me a pair of rusty kindergarten scissors, and a couple rolls of duct tape.
    No, this part is not right. If you are within the 1000 foot ring and carrying either open or concealed, you must have a state issued permit to do so. This is a stupid federal law, not a Virginia state ruling. Here is the exact text;



    (2)

    (A) It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to possess a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone.
    (B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the possession of a firearm—
    (i) on private property not part of school grounds;
    (ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;
    (iii) that is—
    (I) not loaded; and
    (II) in a locked container, or a locked firearms rack that is on a motor vehicle;

    (iv) by an individual for use in a program approved by a school in the school zone;
    (v) by an individual in accordance with a contract entered into between a school in the school zone and the individual or an employer of the individual;
    (vi) by a law enforcement officer acting in his or her official capacity; or
    (vii) that is unloaded and is possessed by an individual while traversing school premises for the purpose of gaining access to public or private lands open to hunting, if the entry on school premises is authorized by school authorities.

    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

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    Regular Member Riana's Avatar
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    SouthernBoy wrote:
    Riana wrote:
    Felid`Maximus wrote:
    Wait, wtf? I thought the 1000' rule was a California rule? You free-staters have to worry about that crap as well or what?
    Well, in California if you do it, you're most likely going to be convicted. The state laws are enforced and seemingly enforceable.

    In other states, well, I guess that's up to everyone to decide for themselves whether the Federal law has any merit to it.
    It's a Federal law, not a state one (though the state may have one as well).

    As I understand it, though, if you have a permit to carry (in Virginia, that would be your concealed handgun permit - open carry requires no permit), then you're fine, as long as you don't actually set foot on school property (in your car is OK).

    It's really annoying, though - you have to map out where all the school zones are on a trip, just to be sure you don't run afoul of the 1000 foot rule, if you don't have a CHP.
    No, this part is not right. If you are within the 1000 foot ring and carrying either open or concealed, you must have a state issued permit to do so. This is a stupid federal law, not a Virginia state ruling. Here is the exact text;

    (2)

    (A) It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to possess a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone.
    (B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the possession of a firearm—
    (i) on private property not part of school grounds;
    (ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;
    (iii) that is—
    (I) not loaded; and
    (II) in a locked container, or a locked firearms rack that is on a motor vehicle;

    (iv) by an individual for use in a program approved by a school in the school zone;
    (v) by an individual in accordance with a contract entered into between a school in the school zone and the individual or an employer of the individual;
    (vi) by a law enforcement officer acting in his or her official capacity; or
    (vii) that is unloaded and is possessed by an individual while traversing school premises for the purpose of gaining access to public or private lands open to hunting, if the entry on school premises is authorized by school authorities.
    What I meant was, the 1000 foot rule applies, unless you have your CHP, in which case you cannot set foot on school grounds, but can be in your car there with it concealed (i.e., dropping children off or picking them up). I see that there are a couple of other exceptions to the 1000 foot rule in there, though.

    In the context of the original question, he needs a CHP in order to OC while walking his dog, because he lives within 800 feet of a school zone. Even with the CHP, though, he cannot walk the dog on school grounds.



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    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Riana wrote:
    SouthernBoy wrote:
    Riana wrote:
    Felid`Maximus wrote:
    Wait, wtf? I thought the 1000' rule was a California rule? You free-staters have to worry about that crap as well or what?
    Well, in California if you do it, you're most likely going to be convicted. The state laws are enforced and seemingly enforceable.

    In other states, well, I guess that's up to everyone to decide for themselves whether the Federal law has any merit to it.
    It's a Federal law, not a state one (though the state may have one as well).

    As I understand it, though, if you have a permit to carry (in Virginia, that would be your concealed handgun permit - open carry requires no permit), then you're fine, as long as you don't actually set foot on school property (in your car is OK).

    It's really annoying, though - you have to map out where all the school zones are on a trip, just to be sure you don't run afoul of the 1000 foot rule, if you don't have a CHP.
    No, this part is not right. If you are within the 1000 foot ring and carrying either open or concealed, you must have a state issued permit to do so. This is a stupid federal law, not a Virginia state ruling. Here is the exact text;

    (2)

    (A) It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to possess a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone.
    (B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the possession of a firearm—
    (i) on private property not part of school grounds;
    (ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;
    (iii) that is—
    (I) not loaded; and
    (II) in a locked container, or a locked firearms rack that is on a motor vehicle;

    (iv) by an individual for use in a program approved by a school in the school zone;
    (v) by an individual in accordance with a contract entered into between a school in the school zone and the individual or an employer of the individual;
    (vi) by a law enforcement officer acting in his or her official capacity; or
    (vii) that is unloaded and is possessed by an individual while traversing school premises for the purpose of gaining access to public or private lands open to hunting, if the entry on school premises is authorized by school authorities.
    What I meant was, the 1000 foot rule applies, unless you have your CHP, in which case you cannot set foot on school grounds, but can be in your car there with it concealed (i.e., dropping children off or picking them up). I see that there are a couple of other exceptions to the 1000 foot rule in there, though.

    In the context of the original question, he needs a CHP in order to OC while walking his dog, because he lives within 800 feet of a school zone. Even with the CHP, though, he cannot walk the dog on school grounds.

    Yep, you've got it.

    The problem I have with these nonsensical federal laws is... well, they're federal. They don't belong at the state level. Frankly, it's none of their business if Virginia decided that they wanted teachers and some admin types to carry concealed during school hours. Or if a citizen decides to jog on the school's jogging track on Sunday mornings. None of their business.


    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

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    Regular Member MT GUNNY's Avatar
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    I feel for you Virginians, This is what you need in your state law books:

    Exemption from Federal Gun Free School Zones Act
    MCA
    45-8-360. Establishment of individual licensure. In consideration that the right to keep and bear arms is protected and reserved to the people in Article II, section 12, of the Montana constitution, a person who has not been convicted of a violent, felony crime and who is lawfully able to own or to possess a firearm under the Montana constitution is considered to be individually licensed and verified by the state of Montana within the meaning of the provisions regarding individual licensure and verification in the federal Gun-Free School Zones Act.


    That is what Montana did after the Feds Enacted "The Federal Gun Free School Zone Act"!

    The Dog and I walk by (on the sidewalk in front of the school)Two Schools OC and CC Every night, and there aint a dam thing anybody can do about it


  15. #15
    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    MT GUNNY wrote:
    I feel for you Virginians, This is what you need in your state law books:

    Exemption from Federal Gun Free School Zones Act
    MCA
    45-8-360. Establishment of individual licensure. In consideration that the right to keep and bear arms is protected and reserved to the people in Article II, section 12, of the Montana constitution, a person who has not been convicted of a violent, felony crime and who is lawfully able to own or to possess a firearm under the Montana constitution is considered to be individually licensed and verified by the state of Montana within the meaning of the provisions regarding individual licensure and verification in the federal Gun-Free School Zones Act.


    That is what Montana did after the Feds Enacted "The Federal Gun Free School Zone Act"!

    The Dog and I walk by (on the sidewalk in front of the school)Two Schools OC and CC Every night, and there aint a dam thing anybody can do about it

    THIS is how states should respond to the encrouchment of federal reductions of our rights. Good for Montana and good for all when this type of state response is enacted.




    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

  16. #16
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    So when I OC, and drive through a school zone, without a CHP, I'm in violation of the federal law? But only a federal leo can legally enforce that law?

    This is all very confusing, not to mention retarded, since only the law abiding will be concerned with this law.

  17. #17
    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Pagan wrote:
    So when I OC, and drive through a school zone, without a CHP, I'm in violation of the federal law? But only a federal leo can legally enforce that law?

    This is all very confusing, not to mention retarded, since only the law abiding will be concerned with this law.
    From what I understand, Virginia state and local police are empowered to also enforce these laws. But I have also been led to believe that they rarely enforce them since, as you say, it would really be retarded. I mean, they would have to set up road blocks on all streets within the 1000 foot radius. Virginia doesn't have that many LEOs.

    Yep, as you said.. retarded. But then again, that's the feds for you.


    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

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