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Thread: Only 19.....possible to own a pistol?

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    First post, love the forum, been lurking on the board for awhile, Hello everyone!

    So after reading up on the laws of the commonwealth I realized that you only have to be 18 to Open Carry ! I always knew you had to be 21 to PURCHASE, but the word purchase never really registered. So it seems to me that adults aged 18-20 and364 days are somehow able to aquire and thus carry pistols/handguns. Is this true or am I missing something (maybe this is so you can carry your rifle/shotgun)? If this is the case how exactly do you obtain a handgun legally under the age of 21? Does someone just purchase for you and then sell privately? Does the person buying if for you have to be related or a guardian? Please englighten me on what the deal with this stuff is.

    I live in the Richmond area and would love to be able to open carry. As of now I obviously only own shotguns and rifles and although you can open carry those its notall thatpractical, not to mention I dont think carrying "Assualt Weapons" is legal, and unfourtunately my rifle falls into this category .

    Sorry if this is not the right place for this post, and possibly not even the right website, but you folks seem very imformed and its sort of aggravating how you cantbuy a pistol as an adult, but can do all the other things and have the same responsibilities, thank you all very much for any help!

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    Anyone can buy it for you as long as they can legally purchase a handgun in VA. Or you can just buy it yourself if its a private sale.

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    Just avoid straw purchases.

    But yes, Someone can buy a handgun for you as a gift (you give them nothing in return...or else its a straw purchase) or you can find someone who is not an FFL, who is also a VA resident, knows they can sell to 18-20yos and will do so.

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    fire_man2340 wrote:
    You can buy a Hand Gun from"ANYONE' not store,in the State of Va. that is 18 years of age or older.If Joe Blow has a gun for sale down the street, You can buy it from HIM.

    You can get a friend, mom, dad, familymember any over the age of 21 to go buy you a handgun from a store, BUT the store can not no thatthey aregetting it for you.

    So.. say John Doe buys the gun you happen to want, and the day after he buys ithe just so happens he dont want it any more, and he Gives or Sales it to you.That's fine that's what I did.

    So go around town to yourfavorite Gun shop and just tell the owner thatyour looking around, they will let you hold them, see them,and what not. Andthen tellJohn 'Hey i want that Glock 40 at JJ's gun shop it's the 3rd one on the right on the top, Here's $500 you can get it if you want it' HINT HINT

    Then the next day He gives it to you because he really dont want it any more, NOW YOU HAVE YOU 1st HANDGUN. and when he gives it to you MAKE SURE the BILL OF SALE, has the gun i.d number, both of yall's full name, phone number, and D.L number's and date of sale

    This is what i did, Let Me know If i did or can help. Thanks Brandon

    You're kidding with this, right?


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    buster81 wrote:
    fire_man2340 wrote:


    You're kidding with this, right?

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    That sounds like a straw purchase to me. Is it not?

    You can have one given to you as a gift as said or you can buy one from a private party sale. Anyone selling it that is not a FFL dealer can sell it to you. My understanding is Federal law says 21 but VA's says 18. Am I correct here? So in VA you only have to be 18 but since FFL dealers have to go by Federal rules you have to be 21 to buy one from a FFL dealer. However, anyone else you can buy it from.



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    fire_man2340 wrote:
    buster81 wrote:
    fire_man2340 wrote:
    You can buy a Hand Gun from"ANYONE' not store,in the State of Va. that is 18 years of age or older.If Joe Blow has a gun for sale down the street, You can buy it from HIM.

    You can get a friend, mom, dad, familymember any over the age of 21 to go buy you a handgun from a store, BUT the store can not no thatthey aregetting it for you.

    So.. say John Doe buys the gun you happen to want, and the day after he buys ithe just so happens he dont want it any more, and he Gives or Sales it to you.That's fine that's what I did.

    So go around town to yourfavorite Gun shop and just tell the owner thatyour looking around, they will let you hold them, see them,and what not. Andthen tellJohn 'Hey i want that Glock 40 at JJ's gun shop it's the 3rd one on the right on the top, Here's $500 you can get it if you want it' HINT HINT

    Then the next day He gives it to you because he really dont want it any more, NOW YOU HAVE YOU 1st HANDGUN. and when he gives it to you MAKE SURE the BILL OF SALE, has the gun i.d number, both of yall's full name, phone number, and D.L number's and date of sale

    This is what i did, Let Me know If i did or can help. Thanks Brandon

    You're kidding with this, right?
    Naw, BUT! it didn't happen just like that,I wastelling mycousin one day that i wanted a gunthis shop had, i told him what it was and what not, then like 2 week's later he came to the house and said 'Hey give me $200, This is your's' I didnt know he was going to do it, so really that doesn't fall under "straw purchase" I just came up with that for him to get around the "straw purchase"
    If that isn't a straw purchase, it sure does sound like one. Your last sentence there shows intent.

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    Under United States federal gun laws, a straw purchase is any purchase from a dealer holding a Federal Firearms License where the buyer conducting the transaction is not the "actual purchaser", but is acting as a proxy for another person. Although the term is commonly used to refer to purchasing on behalf of a person who is legally ineligible to purchase or possess a firearm, the law does not make that distinction.

    So If I didnt know he was doing it then it's not Straw Purchase. Right?

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    I'm not a lawyer nor do I pretend to be one.

    Either way, I wouldn't advertise it. Sounds like a gray area to me.

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    nova wrote:
    I'm not a lawyer nor do I pretend to be one.

    Either way, I wouldn't advertise it. Sounds like a gray area to me.
    +100000000


    I don't want to touch anything in this thread with a 10 foot stick. Frenchdl, the greatest advice I can give to you is to NOT do what fire_man says. This is a straw purchase. Whether the dealer knows or not, the fact is, YOU know, and the person who buys it for you knows. After that, all the advice I can give you is to not drop the soap in those steamy federal prison showers.

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    There is no law restricting ownership:

    http://www.vsp.state.va.us/Firearms.shtm

    And as was noted above, a purchase as a "gift" is also not illegal nor is a FTF private sale.
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
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    Based on the description in the thread, this was a straw purchase. The NICS form 4473 says you can buy a gift for someone if they are legally able to own a firearm. However in this case, it was not a "gift". Once your cousin took money for the gun which he purchased for you, knowing that you could not legally purchase it, you made a straw purchase. That is a felony with a penalty of up to 10 years in prison and $250,00o in fines for both of you. The purchase was made with the intent of getting around the federal requirements. Also since you have posted the complete details on a public forum, it would likely be easy to prosecute and prove the illegal intent in court.

    The ATF, should they gain knowledge of this type thing, does not play games. There will be no grey area, only the facts that a federal gun law was violated.



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    wylde007 wrote:
    There is no law restricting ownership:

    http://www.vsp.state.va.us/Firearms.shtm

    And as was noted above, a purchase as a "gift" is also not illegal nor is a FTF private sale.

    True, BUT when the purchaser of the "gift" was reimbursed for the "gift", the whole situation changes. Good luck convincing the ATF that you received a gift of a firearm and then in turn gave the purchaser a gift in the amount of the firearm.


    There are several LEOs who post here, hopefully one of them will comment on this.

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    Thanks for all the help people!

    Although I am still a little confused :?, haha. Dont worry I wont do anything before knowing 100% that it is in fact legal, getting a pistol is not worth ruining my future. That being said, Im still trying to figure this out. After reading I want to provide a few examples to see if I am thinking correctly.

    Ex 1) My good friend who will be 21 buys a pistol, with his own money. I see his pistol and say, damn I want this can I buy it from you? I pay with my own money. This would be considered a private sale and not a straw purchase right?

    Ex 2)Same thing as above except I give said friend the money before he goes and buys the pistol- this would be a straw purchase correct?

    Ex 3) I trade a person (just an average joe, who happens to have a pistol I want), one of my long guns for a pistol. Does a straw purchase have to include cash, or is trading considered purchasing.

    I guess want Im really trying to figure out is what the heck the difference is inbetween straw purchases, and private sales, because it seems to me that the only thing that seperates them is if the original buyer (not me) planned on selling it to someone under 21. But its ok if it randomly comes up in the future? Seems silly to me.

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    frenchdl wrote:
    Seems silly to me.
    Welcome to the world of gun laws.

    In my non-attorney opinion, straw purchases occur when someone walks into a gunstore with the intent to be reimbursed for the gun afterwards from someone else in exchange for the gun. In other words, someone is paying you to buy the gun for them.

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    well Im in the same boat. Im 20 years old and in Feb I went to Bobs Gun Shop with my father and got my gift. Its legal to Open Carry after turning 18 as I do now at the age 20. So yes its legal just make sure its a legal transaction

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    frenchdl wrote:
    Thanks for all the help people!

    Although I am still a little confused :?, haha. Dont worry I wont do anything before knowing 100% that it is in fact legal, getting a pistol is not worth ruining my future. That being said, Im still trying to figure this out. After reading I want to provide a few examples to see if I am thinking correctly.

    Ex 1) My good friend who will be 21 buys a pistol, with his own money. I see his pistol and say, damn I want this can I buy it from you? I pay with my own money. This would be considered a private sale and not a straw purchase right?

    Ex 2)Same thing as above except I give said friend the money before he goes and buys the pistol- this would be a straw purchase correct?

    Ex 3) I trade a person (just an average joe, who happens to have a pistol I want), one of my long guns for a pistol. Does a straw purchase have to include cash, or is trading considered purchasing.

    I guess want Im really trying to figure out is what the heck the difference is inbetween straw purchases, and private sales, because it seems to me that the only thing that seperates them is if the original buyer (not me) planned on selling it to someone under 21. But its ok if it randomly comes up in the future? Seems silly to me.
    I don't know Virginia law and am not a lawyer so I won't attemp to answer your first or third example. I do sell firearms for a FFL dealer so I will comment on your second example which is covered under Federal law. Your example 2 would be a straw purchase as you gave someone the money to purchase a pistol from an FFL dealer which you could not lawfully purchase. You and your friend would be guilty of a federal fiream law violation.

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    acrimsontide wrote:
    True, BUT when the purchaser of the "gift" was reimbursed for the "gift", the whole situation changes. Good luck convincing the ATF that you received a gift of a firearm and then in turn gave the purchaser a gift in the amount of the firearm.


    There are several LEOs who post here, hopefully one of them will comment on this.
    In that case, have the original purchaser run a few rounds through it first and then he can sell it to you.

    It's very simple and there's not really a damn thing the gummint can do about it. The guy at the FFL doesn't have any interest in where hat gun goes once it leaves the building. He's done his part. If a person bought a whole arsenal as an investment and never fired them once, then sold each one to somebody else for a profit... there's not a thing anyone can do to him.
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
    Novos ordo seclorum ~ Mustaine

    Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

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    Im going to let this one go, and hey frenchdldont do what i said the first time, the more i think about it's stupid! but on behalf i didnt know was going to by me a gun. Buy ill see everyone els on a Different Topic, SEE YA

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    wylde007 wrote:
    acrimsontide wrote:
    True, BUT when the purchaser of the "gift" was reimbursed for the "gift", the whole situation changes. Good luck convincing the ATF that you received a gift of a firearm and then in turn gave the purchaser a gift in the amount of the firearm.


    There are several LEOs who post here, hopefully one of them will comment on this.
    In that case, have the original purchaser run a few rounds through it first and then he can sell it to you.

    It's very simple and there's not really a damn thing the gummint can do about it. The guy at the FFL doesn't have any interest in where hat gun goes once it leaves the building. He's done his part. If a person bought a whole arsenal as an investment and never fired them once, then sold each one to somebody else for a profit... there's not a thing anyone can do to him.

    Oh yes there is. If he bought a "whole arsenal" to sell for a profit, then he is in the business of selling firearms for a profit which requires a Federal Firearm License. You are citing examples of ways to get around a law and I can assure you that the ATF is not going to considerdeliberately buyingguns for resalea hobby.

    As for having the purchaser to "run a few rounds through it", that makes no difference in a straw purchase. You can play all the games you like, but the intent to go around the law is what is going to get you in trouble.

    You can do as you wish of course and it is none of my business, but you are giving bad advice to others on how to get around a federal statute on firearms which is a very serious thing. You might get away with it and you might not, depends on if you are caught as with any other violation of the law. IF you are caught and the ATF can or does prove that you are buying for someone else who cannot legally buy, you have real problems. If you are are buying guns to sell for a profit without a license, you also have problems.




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    The fact of the matter is that it's just flat-out harder to buy a handgun if you're 18 to 20 years old. You can't buy a gun from an FFL, period. If you try to skirt the issue, you're running a real risk of being convicted of participating in a straw purchase.

    Until you're 21, your only legal avenue is buying a handgun from another private citizen. There are a variety of ways to find guns for sale from other folks, but your selection is going to be limited to what people in your state are offering for sale from their private collections.

    And that's just the way it is until you turn 21. I'm not happy to tell you that, but that's just reality.

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    acrimsontide wrote:
    Oh yes there is. If he bought a "whole arsenal" to sell for a profit, then he is in the business of selling firearms for a profit which requires a Federal Firearm License. You are citing examples of ways to get around a law and I can assure you that the ATF is not going to considerdeliberately buyingguns for resalea hobby.

    As for having the purchaser to "run a few rounds through it", that makes no difference in a straw purchase. You can play all the games you like, but the intent to go around the law is what is going to get you in trouble.

    You can do as you wish of course and it is none of my business, but you are giving bad advice to others on how to get around a federal statute on firearms which is a very serious thing. You might get away with it and you might not, depends on if you are caught as with any other violation of the law. IF you are caught and the ATF can or does prove that you are buying for someone else who cannot legally buy, you have real problems. If you are are buying guns to sell for a profit without a license, you also have problems.
    Cite, please?

    The ATF can munch my taint. Once property is "private" they have no say. It's not "getting around" anything. FFLs are necessary for import, initial and cross-border sales. Once a firearm enters the private market, they have no control.

    I'll stand by the Constitution on that one.
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
    Novos ordo seclorum ~ Mustaine

    Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

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    wylde007 wrote:
    acrimsontide wrote:
    Oh yes there is. If he bought a "whole arsenal" to sell for a profit, then he is in the business of selling firearms for a profit which requires a Federal Firearm License. You are citing examples of ways to get around a law and I can assure you that the ATF is not going to considerdeliberately buyingguns for resalea hobby.

    As for having the purchaser to "run a few rounds through it", that makes no difference in a straw purchase. You can play all the games you like, but the intent to go around the law is what is going to get you in trouble.

    You can do as you wish of course and it is none of my business, but you are giving bad advice to others on how to get around a federal statute on firearms which is a very serious thing. You might get away with it and you might not, depends on if you are caught as with any other violation of the law. IF you are caught and the ATF can or does prove that you are buying for someone else who cannot legally buy, you have real problems. If you are are buying guns to sell for a profit without a license, you also have problems.
    Cite, please?

    The ATF can munch my taint. Once property is "private" they have no say. It's not "getting around" anything. FFLs are necessary for import, initial and cross-border sales. Once a firearm enters the private market, they have no control.

    I'll stand by the Constitution on that one.
    Hey dude, do what you like. As far as "cite please", we have talked straw purchases so you know what is and isn't legal. I'm sure that if you do these illegal acts, someday and ATF agent and federal prosecuter will be happy to "cite please" to you and when they do, good luck with your standing on the Constitution on that one. Have a nice day.

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