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Hit this "Topic of the Day"

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Orygunner

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Springfield, Oregon, USA
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Sonora Rebel wrote:
Like I really care whatany yahooin Oregon 'thinks' about anythingthey have yet to experience. BP works for us... we don't have a problem with 'em.We don't cause problems with 'em or for 'em. They defend us against this illegal incursion and criminal activity. Without 'em we'd be overrun. In my area there's about five Deputies covering 155 sq. miles per shift. Then there's the Rez... and the Tohono O'ohdam (Papago/Pima) tribal police are few 'n far between... but the Rez cops have the same concerns. This is part of the old 'wild west'... with the same problems... and much the same attitudes. You don't like it... tuff munchies~!
Click to expand...

Well, I hope you and the border patrol are happy with each other, and maybe if you're co-operative enough, you might get a reach-around once in awhile.

...That's nothing I'd care to experience, but I do live within 100 miles of the border, so maybe someday I will...
...Orygunner...
 
GWbiker

GWbiker

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Orygunner wrote:
GWbiker wrote:
I've tried finding statistics on internal immigration checkpoints, and I would think that if if they were doing such a great job, statistics would be easy to find. Maybe my Google-fu is weak, but the best statistics I can find is 1 in 200 vehicles stopped at an internal checkpoint (NOT at the border) yielded an illegal alien. At least 200 people's rights violated, to catch one illegal alien. Woo hoo! Another website claims in over 40,000 vehicles stopped in 10 months, a set of internal suspicionless checkpoints only detained about 100 illegal aliens and a dozen criminals.
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Did you Google any info concerning the huge seizures of illegal drugs at Arizona BP check points? Or doesn't that play into your argument?
Click to expand...

(readjusts his No Compromise hat)

Quite frankly, no. If you believe the ends justify the means, then where does the compromise of our rights end?

If you think it's a good idea to sacrifice your rights for the greater good, where should it stop? If you think they should be able tostop a vehicle on a public road 100 miles from the border,and demand proof of citizenship and bully people into a search with no reasonable suspicion, then why don't we also allow the government to:

Stop us on the street and demand our identification and a search of our person?

Randomly search people's homes?

Search our vehicles, anytime, anywhere?

If we were somehow crazy to allow the Federal Government to repeal the 4th Amendment, can you imagineof all the illegal drugs they would find if they simply searched everyone, their homes and vehicles! Imagine how many illegal aliens, terrorists and criminalsthey would find!

Any sane person with any balls that values their freedom wouldn't stand for that kind of abuse of government power over a sovereign people, no matter what benefit to society it may have by removing (some of the) drugs, illegal aliens, or criminals from our streets. So what sense does it make to allow the current abuse of rights for the whatever the benefit it claims to provide?

This country isn't great because our powerful government protects us, we are great because we are the freest country in the world. Every chip away from that liberty, every compromise of our rightsleads us closer towards our fall. Our government has grown too big for it's britches, and seeks to control every aspect of our life, all under the guise of"Safety" and the "Public Good." I say F*** Safety and F*** the Public Good! I would much rather live as a free man in a "dangerous" country with all my inalienable rights intact and protected, than to be coddled and "kept safe" by a socialist "nanny state" that claims to keep me safe but oppressed and controlled.

That's the root of what I believe in, and that is why I choose not to compromise my rights.

...Orygunner...
Click to expand...
Thanks for your tap dance around my question on illegal drug traffic from Mexico. I know now where you're coming from.

Have a nice day, Junior!!
 
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Orygunner

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Springfield, Oregon, USA
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GWbiker wrote:

Thanks for your tap dance around my question on illegal drug traffic from Mexico. I know now where you're coming from.

Have a nice day, Junior!!
Click to expand...

Oh, I apologize, I thought you wanted a detailed logical explanation of WHY.

So instead, here's your one line answer:

I don't give a rat's ass how many drugs they find at checkpoints at these suspicionless immigration checkpoints 10, 40, or even 100 miles from the US border, it's not worth sacrificing our rights for it.

Is that a direct enough answer?

...Orygunner...
 
KBCraig

KBCraig

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Some people are hell-bent to stop illegal immigration no matter how much it costs, either in dollars or lost rights.

The answer to the problem is easy enough: stop illegal immigration by making immigration easy, cheap, and legal. Sonora Rebel is worried --rightly so-- about trespassing and destruction of property by those crossing through the desert. Again, the solution is as easy as understanding the cause: they're crossing through the desert because they can't just drive up the highway!

Sonora Rebel and his neighbors wouldn't have any immigrants to worry about if they could just stop at the checkpoint, say, "Yep, we're going to Arkansas to work on a chicken farm!", and then be on their way.

The social problem of entire extended families moving here started when we made it more difficult to cross the border and work legally. Once they make it here safely, it's much easier to stay and work under the radar, than to work for six months and return home with what would be a lifetime of savings in Mexico. Most illegals I've talked to would rather work a while then return home to visit regularly, but coming back and forth is too risky. So the only way to see their families is to move the whole bunch to America.
 
GWbiker

GWbiker

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Orygunner wrote:
GWbiker wrote:

Thanks for your tap dance around my question on illegal drug traffic from Mexico. I know now where you're coming from.

Have a nice day, Junior!!
Click to expand...

Oh, I apologize, I thought you wanted a detailed logical explanation of WHY.

So instead, here's your one line answer:

I don't give a rat's ass how many drugs they find at checkpoints at these suspicionless immigration checkpoints 10, 40, or even 100 miles from the US border, it's not worth sacrificing our rights for it.

Is that a direct enough answer?

...Orygunner...
Click to expand...
You needn't bother tapping out more nonsense my way, junior. You're just a young computer geek flipping thru the channels, trying to stir up $hit.

Go play with your children!
 
O

Orygunner

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Joined
Jun 5, 2008
Messages
737
Location
Springfield, Oregon, USA
imported post

GWbiker wrote:
You needn't bother tapping out more nonsense my way, junior. You're just a young computer geek flipping thru the channels, trying to stir up $hit.

Go play with your children!
Click to expand...

Wrong on all counts. Shows what you know, grandpa! ;)

You asked a straightforward question, and I answered it two different ways (detailed, and simple). Instead of discussing it further, you resort to name calling and accusations of troublemaking.

If I'm stirring up s*** by standing up for my rights and encouraging others to do the same, then I make no apologies.You're the latecomer to the conversation, making oddball comments, playing "my state is better than your state" and making no valid points whatsoever. Who's stirring the poo?

You go ahead and trade your liberties for a little perceived safety. When you do, you deserve neither.

...If you can't carry on a rational, respectful,adult discussion, the approprite thing for you to do is to STFU...
...Orygunner...
 
Sonora Rebel

Sonora Rebel

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Since you stuck your nose in a border issue you dunno know jack about other than from some nutjob on YouTube... How 'bout take another toke on yer crackpipe 'n YOU STFU?

I hear smokin' thatstuff makes you paranoid... so does transporting thru checkpoints. 'Seems you don't care 'bout drug runners caught or not. 'Not talkin' nickle bags here... but 30 lb bales. Then, there's the cocaine that comes in all forms of containment.

You've got all the answers w/o even knowin' the questions.
 
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Orygunner

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Joined
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Messages
737
Location
Springfield, Oregon, USA
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Sonora Rebel wrote:
Since you stuck your nose in a border issue you dunno know jack about other than from some nutjob on YouTube... How 'bout take another toke on yer crackpipe 'n YOU STFU?

I hear smokin' thatstuff makes you paranoid... so does transporting thru checkpoints. 'Seems you don't care 'bout drug runners caught or not. 'Not talkin' nickle bags here... but 30 lb bales. Then, there's the cocaine that comes in all forms of containment.

You've got all the answers w/o even knowin' the questions.
Click to expand...

I've been open to suggestions and information from your side of the argument, but so far you've raised no concrete points. All you've said is that you appreciate the job the border partrol does, that you're happy they're protecting you, and that I just don't understand because I'm from another state or I don't understand "the dynamic of this desert."

Please tell me what it is you think I don't understand. Tell me what it is I'm missing here. Tell me why you are happy to waive your rights without crossing any border. Explain it to me, I'm patient, and I'm ready and willing to listen.

Are you unwilling or unable to articulate your side of the argument? Or do we just have a communications problem here? Do you understand that I DO appreciate and respect the border patrol, and that I DO want them protecting our border?

Or will you justavoid any rational discussion by claimingI don't understand or that I'd have to live there to "get it."

C'mon, I dare you to discuss this like an adult. I'm always willing to admit I'm wrong, but you have to prove it to me.

...Orygunner...
 
sccrref

sccrref

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Virginia Beach, VA, , USA
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I have just discovered that the BP can in fact conduct warrentless searches and they are limited in scope. IANAL but as far as I can tell, this cite is current. It is covered under 8 USC Section 1357(a)(3) http://law.onecle.com/uscode/8/1357.html

(a) Powers without warrant
Any officer or employee of the Service authorized underregulations prescribed by the Attorney General shall have powerwithout warrant -
(3) within a reasonable distance from any external boundary ofthe United States, to board and search for aliens any vesselwithin the territorial waters of the United States and anyrailway car, aircraft, conveyance, or vehicle, and within a
distance of twenty-five miles from any such external boundary tohave access to private lands, but not dwellings, for the purposeof patrolling the border to prevent the illegal entry of aliensinto the United States;


I do not agree with as I think it is against the COTUS.
 
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Orygunner

Regular Member
Joined
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Messages
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Location
Springfield, Oregon, USA
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Sonora Rebel wrote:
Here ya go shortpants... Argue with them:



http://www.cbp.gov/linkhandler/cgov/newsroom/fact_sheets/border/border_patrol/bp_checkpoints.ctt/bp_checkpoints.pdf
Click to expand...

Thank you for the propaganda. I read it carefully three times to make sure I wasn't missing something, but all I can see that it basically says is: We're from the government, we are here to protect you. Our presence at these checkpoints reduces the abilities of criminals and terrorists to travel freely, and we appreciate your cooperation.

The only noteworthy thing I see is:

All Border Patrol checkpoints operate in accordance with the Constitution of the United States and governingjudicial rulings.
Click to expand...

Nice! So that means (as it reads in the Constitution) if I come across a Border Patrol checkpoint 40 miles from the border: I have the right to remain silent and not answer any questions. I have the right to refuse warranless searches or searches with no probable cause. I have a right to be secure in my person, papers, and property.

I can also choose waive those rights, cooperate, and most likely be on my way in just a few moments, making life easier on me and easy on the Border Patrol agents.

Am I reading it correctly? Or was there something I missed?

...Orygunner...
 
Sonora Rebel

Sonora Rebel

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I reckon they also have the responsibility to ensure that you don't block traffic 'n leave you to sit in your vehicle silently and ignored in 111-124 deg temps while you mull over your citizenship.

I s'pose you have the 'right' to be a total asshat while doing so.
 
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