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Thread: Bar/Resturant & Open Carry?

  1. #1
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    So in one of the post about the Orange County UOC meet up



    Someone mentioned that there is no california restrictions to being in a bar or at a resturant with a bar and open carry?

    is this just because of unloaded open carry, or just open carry in general, If loaded or unloaded open carry were both legal per say..

    So i can celibrate my St. Patricks day at my favorite Bar/Pub armed? and can i be drinking?



    Even better question.

    The owner or I'm owner of a Bar, Gives permisson to carry in the bar concealed or open... Is that legal?



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    Regular Member demnogis's Avatar
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    AFAIK if the owner of the establishment asks you to carry concealed on (their) private property you may do so. It is private property and not in public. It would almost be the same as carrying concealed in your friend's house or business.

    I'm not 100% sure about that though, as I can't find any Penal Code in California restricting the method of carry on private property with permission.

    Also, there is no law in California restricting carrying into a Bar or establishment that serves alcohol. But if the owner asks you to store it in your car or leave, you must oblige! It is their property and their rules.
    Gun control isn't about guns -- it is about control.

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    Please let me know what ZIP Code you will be traveling through and drinking in?

    Nothing against booze. Just Booze and guns. The best safety is between your ears until it is lubricated with Anti-Judgment oil.

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    demnogis wrote:
    AFAIK if the owner of the establishment asks you to carry concealed on (their) private property you may do so. It is private property and not in public. It would almost be the same as carrying concealed in your friend's house or business.

    I'm not 100% sure about that though, as I can't find any Penal Code in California restricting the method of carry on private property with permission.

    Also, there is no law in California restricting carrying into a Bar or establishment that serves alcohol. But if the owner asks you to store it in your car or leave, you must oblige! It is their property and their rules.
    huh? Private property is not exempt from concealed carry bans usually. Certainly in CA a public place like a restaurant or business is not lawful to conceal without a permit. In Virginia for example, it is illegal to conceal withotu permit even on yoour own land!!

  5. #5
    Regular Member demnogis's Avatar
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    If you are a patron at the bar and conducting lawful business with that establishment (eating and drinking there, playing billiards, video games, darts, etc) and have the owner's permission...

    §12031.
    Code:
    (h) Nothing in this section shall prevent any person engaged in  any lawful business, including a nonprofit organization, or any  officer, employee, or agent authorized by that person for lawful  purposes connected with that business, from having a loaded firearm  within the person's place of business, or any person in lawful  possession of private property from having a loaded firearm on that  property.
    If you are the owner of the establishment:

    §12026.
    Code:
    (a) Section 12025 shall not apply to or affect any citizen  of the United States or legal resident over the age of 18 years who  resides or is temporarily within this state, and who is not within  the excepted classes prescribed by Section 12021 or 12021.1 of this  code or Section 8100 or 8103 of the Welfare and Institutions Code,  who carries, either openly or concealed, anywhere within the citizen'  s or legal resident's place of residence, place of business, or on  private property owned or lawfully possessed by the citizen or legal  resident any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being  concealed upon the person.  
    (b) No permit or license to purchase, own, possess, keep, or  carry, either openly or concealed, shall be required of any citizen  of the United States or legal resident over the age of 18 years who  resides or is temporarily within this state, and who is not within  the excepted classes prescribed by Section 12021 or 12021.1 of this  code or Section 8100 or 8103 of the Welfare and Institutions Code, to  purchase, own, possess, keep, or carry, either openly or concealed,  a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon  the person within the citizen's or legal resident's place of  residence, place of business, or on private property owned or  lawfully possessed by the citizen or legal resident.  
    (c) Nothing in this section shall be construed as affecting the  application of Section 12031.
    You're covered. But make sure you have ABSOLUTE PERMISSION and the owner will attest to this should another patron call the cops on account of MWAG!:what:

    You can find the applicable penal codes here:
    http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/wa...ction=retrieve
    Gun control isn't about guns -- it is about control.

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    Regular Member Decoligny's Avatar
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    eraseallhope wrote:
    So in one of the post about the Orange County UOC meet up


    Someone mentioned that there is no california restrictions to being in a bar or at a resturant with a bar and open carry?

    is this just because of unloaded open carry, or just open carry in general, If loaded or unloaded open carry were both legal per say..

    So i can celibrate my St. Patricks day at my favorite Bar/Pub armed? and can i be drinking?



    Even better question.

    The owner or I'm owner of a Bar, Gives permisson to carry in the bar concealed or open... Is that legal?

    If you are in an incorporated city, you can go into a bar, or a restaurant with a bar, with an unloaded openly carried firearm.

    If you are in an unincorporated area, where discharge of a firearm isn't prohibited by law, then you can go into a bar, or a restaurant with a bar, with a loaded openly carried firearm.

    If you have a License to carry a Concealed Pistol, unless it is actually written on the license that you can't carry into a bar, then you can legally carry concealed and loaded.

    ATTENTION FLAMERS: This is what the law says, it is not a discussion of whether it is smart to do so, or whether the Sheriff can or can't take a LTC away if you get caught doing so legally.

  7. #7
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    St. Pats day is not the day to push the OC/liquor serving establishmentsissue in CA. Legal yes, but lets wait until there are some carry rights protected by the courts please.

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    Decoligny wrote:
    If you are in an incorporated city, you can go into a bar, or a restaurant with a bar, with an unloaded openly carried firearm.

    If you are in an unincorporated area, where discharge of a firearm isn't prohibited by law, then you can go into a bar, or a restaurant with a bar, with a loaded openly carried firearm.

    If you have a License to carry a Concealed Pistol, unless it is actually written on the license that you can't carry into a bar, then you can legally carry concealed and loaded.

    ATTENTION FLAMERS: This is what the law says, it is not a discussion of whether it is smart to do so, or whether the Sheriff can or can't take a LTC away if you get caught doing so legally.
    If you have a License to carry a Concealed Pistol, unless it is actually written on the license that you can't carry into a bar, and unless its actually written on the license that you must conceal, then you can legally carryopen and loaded.

    ATTENTION FLAMERS: This is what the law says, it is not a discussion of whether it is smart to do so, or whether the Sheriff can or can't take a LTC away if you get caught doing so legally.

    :celebrate



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    Regular Member mjones's Avatar
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    cato wrote:
    St. Pats day is not the day to push the OC/liquor serving establishmentsissue in CA. Legal yes, but lets wait until there are some carry rights protected by the courts please.
    +1 Gazillion!

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    USPSureShot wrote:
    Please let me know what ZIP Code you will be traveling through and drinking in?

    Nothing against booze. Just Booze and guns. The best safety is between your ears until it is lubricated with Anti-Judgment oil.
    What about having 1 beer with dinner and then driving? I guarantee that happens every day in every zip code.

    Driving is FAR more dangerous than simply carrying a firearm, though being out at the range might be on par with driving, as you'd be handling the firearm.

    Simply be aware that if a self-defense situation arises, any level of intoxication is likely going to be used against you.
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  11. #11
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    Of course there is nothing wrong with a Glass with dinner. But unlike Driving there is no designated shooter program if one beer is not the intent:-)

    Sorry I was trying to be funny and well it flopped. No wonder my Stand up career is on hold.

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    demnogis wrote:
    If you are a patron at the bar and conducting lawful business with that establishment (eating and drinking there, playing billiards, video games, darts, etc) and have the owner's permission...

    §12031.
    Code:
    (h) Nothing in this section shall prevent any person engaged in any lawful business, including a nonprofit organization, or any officer, employee, or agent authorized by that person for lawful purposes connected with that business, from having a loaded firearm within the person's place of business, or any person in lawful possession of private property from having a loaded firearm on that property.
    If you are the owner of the establishment:

    §12026.
    Code:
    (a) Section 12025 shall not apply to or affect any citizen of the United States or legal resident over the age of 18 years who resides or is temporarily within this state, and who is not within the excepted classes prescribed by Section 12021 or 12021.1 of this code or Section 8100 or 8103 of the Welfare and Institutions Code, who carries, either openly or concealed, anywhere within the citizen' s or legal resident's place of residence, place of business, or on private property owned or lawfully possessed by the citizen or legal resident any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person. 
    (b) No permit or license to purchase, own, possess, keep, or carry, either openly or concealed, shall be required of any citizen of the United States or legal resident over the age of 18 years who resides or is temporarily within this state, and who is not within the excepted classes prescribed by Section 12021 or 12021.1 of this code or Section 8100 or 8103 of the Welfare and Institutions Code, to purchase, own, possess, keep, or carry, either openly or concealed, a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person within the citizen's or legal resident's place of residence, place of business, or on private property owned or lawfully possessed by the citizen or legal resident. 
    (c) Nothing in this section shall be construed as affecting the application of Section 12031.
    You're covered. But make sure you have ABSOLUTE PERMISSION and the owner will attest to this should another patron call the cops on account of MWAG!:what:

    You can find the applicable penal codes here:
    http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/wa...ction=retrieve
    You forgot to think thru the bolded part I hgihlighted above - a business owner cannot give patrons permission to break the law.

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    Regular Member Decoligny's Avatar
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    Hey Mike - Nothing is showing as bold.

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    In any case, Mike is right. 12025 applies to any place open to the public. Exemptions only cover owners, and any employees they permit to carry.

    Also note, the exemption to 12031 was ruled to only permit "having" a loaded weapon in your place of business. "Carrying" a loaded weapon in your place of business is still illegal. See California v Overturf, bring something to vomit in - it's really bad...

    So, all those gun shop employees carrying guns better have permits or they're breaking the law, even with the owner's permission. To be within the Overturf ruling, the loaded guns would have to be setting on a shelf somewhere.

    Interestingly, under the Overturf decision, 12025 would apply only to "carrying" a concealed weapon, not "having" a concealed weapon. Theoretically, this means a concealed weapon is only illegal while you're moving it. If the concealed weapon were stashed somewhere, it would be in your possession, but not being carried.
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    Decoligny wrote:
    Hey Mike - Nothing is showing as bold.
    Fixed, thanks.

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    it would probably just remind people of the song "bubba shot the jukebox". it would be great if whoever went with you called you bubba all night haha

  17. #17
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    Im a Door-man in the nightclub industry and have acted as Head of Security for various bars & clubs over the past 11 years.. In regards to open carry in such an establishment, this is what I've experienced and would like to share with all.

    It comes down to this "We reserve the right to refuse service for any reason" ... ... Is it legal, maybe. Is it a good idea, HELL NO!!!... Alcohol and Guns in the same room is just a recipe for disaster. If you open carry at such a venue, you WILL be asked to put it back in your vehicle. If you don't comply, the venue reserves the right to not allow entry. In my experience, firearms and bars/clubs leave far too many unconteolable variables. .... Just leave it in the car!

    Plus, to my understanding of being a proud and responsible advocate of open Carry means that we must lead by example. I think we have a hard enough time just having people understand that open carry IS legal here as is. Why push those limits. It'll just rub folks the wrong way. We want to achieve general social acceptance, NOT freak people out.

    Lastly, NO ONE should open carry in a bar on a national holiday that has it's roots envolving heavy consumption of alcohol!... Just my .02

  18. #18
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    AH!!! 2 year old zombie post! Aim for the head!
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  19. #19
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    This needs to be in the FAQ.

  20. #20
    Regular Member OPS MARINE's Avatar
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    I've OC'd in a bar (having only one drink) and didn't have any issues. Nobody asked me to conceal it or anything. I just thought I'd share another good experience.
    "Most people respect the badge. Everybody... respects the gun."

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