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Thread: Metro Detroit Area meets listing

  1. #1
    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    ******PLEASE ONLY POST ONCE IN THIS THREAD TO AVOID CLUTTER******

    If something really needs to be hashed out, I think it would be best to make new threads.


    April 12

    DanM has suggested, and I agree, that we should meet up at River Woods Park in Auburn Hills. It's a nice park that I've stopped at on bike rides many times. I'm thinking we should do one of our typical BBQ's, (hot dogs, chips, salad, pizza, whatever, doesn't matter) so if you're going to come, please bring some sort of dish, and specify what you'll bring to keep things sorted.

    My suggestion, if it works out for everyone, is that we schedule it to start at around noon.

    202 N. Squirrel Rd
    Auburn Hills Michigan 48326

    If anyone here is good with linkable maps, please hook me up, because I am not. :?

    April 16

    Peanutpublications is organizing a fundraiser event in Auburn Hills. (Yay for two events in less than a week!)

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum30/23273-1.html

    Thursday, April 16 at 5:30 pm
    Boston Market - 3200 Walton Blvd Rochester Hills 48309
    Walton Blvd and Adams Rd



    May 24

    June 14

    July 5

    July 26

    August 16

    September 6

    September 27

    October 18

    November 8

    November 29

    December 20



    I think this is pretty straight forward. The idea is that we don't need to clutter up the forum with a bunch of threads and posts, so I'm just going to have one easy to reference schedule for the Detroit area. By posting here you can let everyone know that you'll be somewhere on a certain day, and I'll add it in above, or you can let me know at an event, and I'll add it in. Plus you can of course let me know if I have a stupid idea I should change.

    Note that I have the every 3rd week put up like we discussed in Berkley, but I can always put in extra dates as needed. It won't completely replace threads for all events in the Detroit area, but I think we can manage to do some events without having to discuss it elsewhere.

    Since the idea here is not to have too much clutter, and because we can't delete posts on this forum, I think it might make sense to post only once if you're going to be involved in meeting(s), and edit as needed, only leaving your post with words in it if it's relevant to future event(s). Maybe I'm over thinking this, but I don't believe it's that complicated. The one problem would be this thread falling to the bottom of the page if no one makes new posts, so hopefully if it works, Mike or John will sticky it.

    Remember, even if you're not doing anything too special, but you'll be out open carrying and you'd be good company, just post it here! 2 people+ = a meeting.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

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    Regular Member DanM's Avatar
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    Michigander wrote:
    DanM and I have been discussing having a meeting at Great Lakes Crossing. Or maybe a meet in a park if the weather is nice. Updates to follow, suggestions are appreciated.
    Personally, as I mentioned to Michigander via PM, I would prefer an MOC get-together, in numbers, in Auburn Hills to be conductedin one of their beautiful public parks.OC in Great Lakes Crossing ison the record by mall authoritiesas permitted,but I have had no productive response from the city on my notifications to them that their anti-carryordinances and park signage violates state preemption.

    As I wrote to Michigander, I would recommend we get togetherata one of AH's parks with a "no weapons" sign. Perhaps a message about such signage and the offending ordinances underlying it could be sent, with possible media coverage,by usstrolling around the signs? River Woods Park has such a sign, has very nicefacilities forcooking and eating, and is practically right off of the exit of M-59 onto Squirrel Road in AH.
    "The principle of self-defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi . . ."--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr

    He who cannot protect himself or his nearest and dearest or their honor by non-violently facing death, may and ought to do so by violently dealing with the oppressor. He who can do neither of the two is a burden.--M. K. Gandhi

    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." --M. K. Gandhi

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    Regular Member dougwg's Avatar
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    DanM,

    It sounds like you are proposing a "I dare you" meeting. Is that your intent?

  4. #4
    Regular Member DanM's Avatar
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    dougwg wrote:
    It sounds like you are proposing a "I dare you" meeting. Is that your intent?
    I don't knowwhat an "I dare you" meeting is. Would you please explain further?

    If it has to do with confronting a city and police department that is hostile to OC, I would say I don't currently think this is the case. I have had interaction with the chief and her officers related to OC, and it seems they are awarethat OC is ok.

    It is merely the case, I believe,that there are outdated ordinances and signage that need to be changed in Auburn Hills. I would consider an MOC get-together, preferably with media coverage, to be an "outdated-ordinance-and-signage awareness" meeting.

    I'm about education and awareness where rights are infringed, not confrontation (at least not while education and awareness are being given time to work).
    "The principle of self-defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi . . ."--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr

    He who cannot protect himself or his nearest and dearest or their honor by non-violently facing death, may and ought to do so by violently dealing with the oppressor. He who can do neither of the two is a burden.--M. K. Gandhi

    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." --M. K. Gandhi

  5. #5
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    DanM wrote:
    dougwg wrote:
    It sounds like you are proposing a "I dare you" meeting. Is that your intent?
    I don't knowwhat an "I dare you" meeting is. Would you please explain further?

    If it has to do with confronting a city and police department that is hostile to OC, I would say I don't currently think this is the case. I have had interaction with the chief and her officers related to OC, and it seems they are awarethat OC is ok.

    It is merely the case, I believe,that there are outdated ordinances and signage that need to be changed in Auburn Hills. I would consider an MOC get-together, preferably with media coverage, to be an "outdated-ordinance-and-signage awareness" meeting.

    I'm about education and awareness where rights are infringed, not confrontation (at least not while education and awareness are being given time to work).
    Has anyone written to AH and tell them the ordinance is illegal and to remove the ban on firearms??? I have had good luck so far with all 3 of the municipalities I have written. If someone gets me the email of the mayor of AH and a link to the ordinance I would be happy to send it.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  6. #6
    Regular Member DanM's Avatar
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    Venator wrote:
    Has anyone written to AH and tell them the ordinance is illegal and to remove the ban on firearms??? I have had good luck so far with all 3 of the municipalities I have written. If someone gets me the email of the mayor of AH and a link to the ordinance I would be happy to send it.

    Belowis copy of the recentemailI sent to the AH council (which includes the mayor, Mr. McDonald):

    [ETA: And I have retained all my emails from last year to their attorney and various city officials, as well.]


    ----- Original Message ----
    From: Dan M***<d***@***.com>
    To: jmcdonal@auburnhills.org
    Cc: mhammond@auburnhills.org; medwards@auburnhills.org; bkittle@auburnhills.org; hknight@bignet.net; kmcdaniel@auburnhills.org; onewkirk@auburnhills.org
    Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 9:32:20 PM
    Subject: Amendment or abolishment of ordinances in contravention of MCL 123.1102

    Dear Mayor McDonald:

    Looking through our ordinances, I continue to find the ones listed below. Under the 1990 state preemption law these ordinances are unenforceable, in whole or in part, with regard to firearm possession and are misleading to the people of Auburn Hills and other citizens. I have communicated since last year by email, phone, and in person with city officials, including its attorney Ms. Joan Bacon, about such matters. I was assured last year by Mr. Tom Tanghe that he and Mr. Peter Auger would be addressing this matter. All contacts have been pleasant but obviously not productive. I am requesting you amend these offending ordinances within 90 days. Failure to amend these ordinances, especially in light of my record ofpast notice, could be considered an act of malfeasance as the ordinances willfully misinform the public about what is and is not allowed in the city ofAuburnHills.

    Thank You,

    Dan M***
    Auburn Hills
    248-***-****

    In 1990, the Michigan legislature enacted MCL 123.1102 which provides, in pertinent part: A local unit of government shall not impose special taxation on, enact or enforce any ordinance or regulation pertaining to, or regulate in any other manner the ownership, registration, purchase, sale, transfer, transportation, or possession of pistols or other firearms, ammunition for pistols or other firearms, or components of pistols or other firearms, except as otherwise provided by federal law or a law of this state.

    THEMICHIGANAPPEALS COURTCONCLUDED:
    April 29, 20039:10 am. v No. 242237 MCGRO vs Ferndale.

    In sum, we conclude that § 1102 is a statute that specifically imposes a prohibition on local units of government from enacting and enforcing any ordinances or regulations pertaining to the transportation and possession of firearms, and thus preempts any ordinance or regulation of a local unit of government concerning these areas. ]

    Further, we conclude that the specific language of the 2000 amendments to MCL 28.421 et seq., particularly §§ 5c and 5o, which were adopted more than a decade after the enactment of § 1102, do not repeal § 1102 or otherwise reopen this area to local regulation of the carrying of firearms.17 Accordingly, we hold that the Ferndale ordinance is preempted by state law and, consequently, we reverse.



    City of Auburn Hills ORDINANCESin question:

    Sec. 46-212. Hunting within city.
    No person shall hunt nor shall any person carry, for the purpose of hunting, firearms within the city. Any person carrying a firearm within the city limits, without a permit therefor, shall be deemed to be hunting. This section shall not apply to a person carrying an unloaded rifle, shotgun or pistol while travelling through or from the city for the purpose of hunting without the city limits.
    (Ord. No. 394, § 2, 7-7-86)
    [Assumes that any carry of a firearm, without “permit” (undefined), is “hunting.” Thus imposes regulation on non-hunting forms of firearm transportation or possession, including lawful open carry for self-defense, in contravention of MCL 123.1102.]

    Sec. 46-170. Loitering in a vehicle.
    It shall be unlawful for a person to, in a motor vehicle not situated on the public highway, sit or stand idly, linger or delay in movement in a public place, and concurrently:
    . . . (7) Be in possession of any one or more of the following dangerous or deadly weapons: . . . concealed firearm . . .
    (Ord. No. 638, Section 2.9, 12-7-98)
    [Regulates in contravention of MCL 123.1102, see above.]

    Sec. 50-3. Regulations governing city parks and city recreational grounds.
    . . . (f) Except as authorized by law, it shall be unlawful for any person to possess any weapon in any city park or the recreational grounds of the city civic center, including, but not limited to, weapons such as firearms. . .
    (Ord. No. 353, § 2, 4-1-85; Ord. No. 533, § 2, 1-25-93)
    [Regulates in contravention of MCL 123.1102, see above.]

    "The principle of self-defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi . . ."--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr

    He who cannot protect himself or his nearest and dearest or their honor by non-violently facing death, may and ought to do so by violently dealing with the oppressor. He who can do neither of the two is a burden.--M. K. Gandhi

    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." --M. K. Gandhi

  7. #7
    Regular Member dougwg's Avatar
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    to be an "outdated-ordinance-and-signage awareness" meeting.


    Cool.


  8. #8
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    Well I'm in, let me know when it is. I'll bring food and family.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    Linked Map to Auburn Hills Park:
    http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&sour...amp;iwloc=addr

    Count me in. I'll bring desert - everyone like Apple Pie?

    Edit:
    Added Calendar Link. Click the Link below and the event will be automatically added to your outlook (or other iCal compatible) calendar.
    http://69.212.249.113/AH_Park.ics

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    Everyone knows that April 14 is Easter sunday, right? I don't know if that will change anything but I thought it should be pointed out.

  11. #11
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    SemperFiGuy wrote:
    Everyone knows that April 14 is Easter sunday, right? I don't know if that will change anything but I thought it should be pointed out.
    April 12th is Easter.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    Venator wrote:
    SemperFiGuy wrote:
    Everyone knows that April 14 is Easter sunday, right? I don't know if that will change anything but I thought it should be pointed out.
    April 12th is Easter.
    IREALLY need to throw away my old calendars.

  13. #13
    Regular Member DanM's Avatar
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    Is the get together on April 12th at River Woods Park in Auburn Hills still a go? If so, should it be put on the Michigan Events Schedule Thread, so we can get an idea of attendance?

    If attendance islow, let's consider movingthe date later. I plan on putting in a lot of effort to inform as many media outlets as possible, since this park has an explicit, illegal "no weapons" statement on the park rules sign. For whatever media that show up, it is my opinion that a healthyturnout of OC folks would be beneficial given that I will attempt to maximize the publicity we receive.
    "The principle of self-defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi . . ."--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr

    He who cannot protect himself or his nearest and dearest or their honor by non-violently facing death, may and ought to do so by violently dealing with the oppressor. He who can do neither of the two is a burden.--M. K. Gandhi

    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." --M. K. Gandhi

  14. #14
    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    I'm planning on being there. If you want to make it into as big of a deal as possible, you should probably start a thread on it.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

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    River Woods Park is in the Events Thread now.

    If you plan to attend, please remember to include in your post what items you will contibute for the picnic, if any. See Event Thread.

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    Regular Member DanM's Avatar
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    SpringerXDacp wrote:
    River Woods Park is in the Events Thread now.

    If you plan to attend, please remember to include in your post what items you will contibute for the picnic, if any. See Event Thread.
    Thank you, Springer. Iwish to discuss that the date for this be set to"TBD . . ."

    All, please see the thread for that at:

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum30/23666.html
    "The principle of self-defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi . . ."--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr

    He who cannot protect himself or his nearest and dearest or their honor by non-violently facing death, may and ought to do so by violently dealing with the oppressor. He who can do neither of the two is a burden.--M. K. Gandhi

    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." --M. K. Gandhi

  17. #17
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    DanM wrote:
    SpringerXDacp wrote:
    River Woods Park is in the Events Thread now.

    If you plan to attend, please remember to include in your post what items you will contibute for the picnic, if any. See Event Thread.
    Thank you, Springer. Iwish to discuss that the date for this be set to"TBD . . ."

    All, please see the thread for that at:

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum30/23666.html
    There are 7 confirmed plus guests currently with two weeks to go. I'll change the date to TBA until further notice.

  18. #18
    Regular Member DanM's Avatar
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    SpringerXDacp wrote:
    There are 7 confirmed plus guests currently with two weeks to go. I'll change the date to TBA until further notice.
    I'll address this in the thread for the event:

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum30/23666.html
    "The principle of self-defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi . . ."--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr

    He who cannot protect himself or his nearest and dearest or their honor by non-violently facing death, may and ought to do so by violently dealing with the oppressor. He who can do neither of the two is a burden.--M. K. Gandhi

    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." --M. K. Gandhi

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