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Thread: California's Police Leaders' Bigoted Attacks on Open Carriers are Unacceptable

  1. #1
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    OpenCarry.org

    [/b][/b]


    For Immediate Release – March 17, 2008

    ---[/b]

    San Diego and Redlands Police Leaders’ Bigoted Attacks on Open Carriers are Unacceptable

    Last year the United States Supreme Court held that the Second Amendment’s right to “bear arms[/b]” secures the right to “carry[/b]” guns. The court further noted that many state courts have said that the concealed carry of guns is not constitutionally protected while open carry[1] is protected. Open carry is lawful in 44 states today, usually without any permit.[2]

    But this week leaders of two California police departments issued shockingly bigoted statements attacking the exercise of lawful gun carry rights in California. San Diego Police Department Attorney Paul Cooper had the gall to say that the lawful open carry of handguns in holsters “is dangerous to the public, the people carrying the weapons and to officers.”[/b][3]

    Mike Stollenwerk, co-founder of OpenCarry.org, a national online gun rights community with 18,700 members, counters that[/b]

    “Attorney Cooper ought to stick to his knitting and fix his erroneous legal opinion at http://www.hoffmang.com/firearms/carry/San-Diego-PD-TB-08-05-California-Open-Carry-Dec-2008.pdf which incorrectly says California law ‘prohibits carrying a loaded firearm in public in a vehicle or on one’s person. This section applies in any public place, on any public street, or in any place where it is unlawful to discharge a firearm.’ As Cooper would find out if he ever fired up his WestLaw, in California, openly carried guns need only be unloaded in cities. Californians are free to carry loaded guns in vehicles and public places in unincorporated areas of California except where the County, and only the County, has prohibited shooting.”[4][/b]
    [/b]
    Further Stollenwerk says,

    “Cooper’s egging on of police officers to point guns at citizens in ‘hot stops’ is so irresponsible that the San Diego City Council should initiate an immediate investigation as to what kind of liability Cooper seeks to bring on City taxpayers when open carriers sue for damages after such unjustified assaults.”[5]
    [/b]
    And then there’s Redlands Police Chief Jim Bueermann who blurted out this week that

    "I think this is absolutely reprehensible behavior. Not only is it dangerous to carry a gun in this day and age, but that they would attempt to goad the officers into behavior that would then allow them to sue or put them in a position where someone could get hurt."[6][/b]

    John Pierce, the other co-founder of OpenCarry.org, disagrees with Bueermann and analogizes to police leader attitudes of an earlier era toward blacks and gays walking in the wrong neighborhoods. Says Pierce, "Is it taunting if a gay couple expresses affection in public? None of these things are taunting. They are educational.”[7][/b][/b]
    [/b][/b]
    In an effort to help California police agency leaders get up to speed on California’s law of open carry, Opencarry.org has urged its members to contact their local police chief and Sheriff with a few friendly reminders at http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum66/23131.html.

    Meanwhile, OpenCarry.org members in California will continue to legally openly carry handguns through out California because, in the end, like our motto says, “a right unexercised is a right lost.”

    Carry on!

    ###

    [/b]Media Contacts[/b]:

    OpenCarry.org co-founders:
    John Pierce: John@OpenCarry.org
    Mike Stollenwerk: MikeOpencarry.org


    [1] As you can see from map at http://www.opencarry.org/opencarry.html, only 6 states ban open carry and bills have been introduced in 3 of those states to repeal those bans this year: OK, SC, and AR.


    [2] A recent FBI study recently documented that, essentially, bad guys don't open carry, or even wear holsters: Anthony Pinizzotto, et al., Violent Encounters: A Study of Felonious Assaults on Our Nation's Law Enforcement Officers[/i][/b], FBI (2006) (finding that violent criminals carefully "conceal" their guns and "eschew holsters"), summary available at
    http://www.forcesciencenews.com/home...html?serial=62.

    [3]Amita Sharma, SD Police Fear Growing Number of Activists Carrying Guns Openly[/i][/b], KPBS, March 17, 2009, available at [size=
    http://www.kpbs.org/news/local;id=14132.]

    [4] See People v. Knight decision of the CA Appeals Court at http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data2/...es/c045858.pdf (citing to a 1968 Calif. AG opinion and holding that police cannot detain gun carriers in unincorporated areas to check to see if gun is loaded cause guns openly carried can be loaded except in areas where shooting is banned by county - evidence obtained in such illegal seizures will be suppressed under Fourth Amendment). See also our press release re Gov. Schwartzenagger's veto of the 2008 bill to ban loaded open carry in vehicles and public places in unincorporated areas at http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_to...highlight=veto.

    [5] Open carriers around the country are winning money settlements for much less draconian police harassment than official direction to point guns at people exercising constitutional rights. See, e.g., VA: http://hamptonroads.com/2008/12/norf...un-arrest-case; LA: http://www.2theadvocate.com/news/277...wALL=y&c=y; GA: http://www.metrospirit.com/index.php...11712084357501.

    [6] Stacia Glenn, Local views clash on carrying guns in public[/i][/b], San Bernadino Sun, March 14, 2009, available at http://www.sbsun.com/news/ci_11913496.

    [7]Amita Sharma, SD Police Fear Growing Number of Activists Carrying Guns Openly[/i][/b], KPBS, March 17, 2009, available at [size=
    http://www.kpbs.org/news/local;id=14132.]

  2. #2
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    Great counter attack, Mike.

    Good positioning, John.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Citizen wrote:
    Great counter attack, Mike.

    Good positioning, John.
    makes me wanna load up a gun bus and head to Californi!

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    Nice counter.

  5. #5
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    Excellent release, Mike.
    In item #1, above, did you forget TX?

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    flintlock tom wrote:
    Excellent release, Mike.
    In item #1, above, did you forget TX?
    No bill was introduced in texas - one was drafted, but never introduced.

  7. #7
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter
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    Rats! I guess I didn't sign the petition enough times.

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    Regular Member Huck's Avatar
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    One would think that any police chief, or LEOs in general,who was truly concerned about lowering crime would'nt have a problem with openlyarmed honest people. IMHO, only people who're up to no good have any reason tofear or dislike armed honest people.
    "You can teach 'em, but you cant learn 'em."

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    Huck wrote:
    One would think that any police chief, or LEOs in general,who was truly concerned about lowering crime would'nt have a problem with openlyarmed honest people. IMHO, only people who're up to no good have any reason tofear or dislike armed honest people.
    That'spolicy issue - the real insanity is that the police laders here have the gall to call lawful and constitutionally protected conduct that's common thruought the United States, "dangerous."

  10. #10
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    Mike wrote:
    Huck wrote:
    One would think that any police chief, or LEOs in general,who was truly concerned about lowering crime would'nt have a problem with openlyarmed honest people. IMHO, only people who're up to no good have any reason tofear or dislike armed honest people.
    That'spolicy issue - the real insanity is that the police laders here have the gall to call lawful and constitutionally protected conduct that's common thruought the United States, "dangerous."
    Since armed citizens are"dangerous" only to folks who're up to no good, what does that tell us about those policechiefs?
    "You can teach 'em, but you cant learn 'em."

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    Police Chief Jim Bueermannsaid "I think this is absolutely reprehensible behavior. Not only is it dangerous to carry a gun in this day and age, but that they would attempt to goad the officers into behavior that would then allow them to sue or put them in a position where someone could get hurt."

    I guess thatsince carrying agun is so dangerous in this day and age, his officers will be turning theirs in immediately.

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    Mike wrote:
    Citizen wrote:
    Great counter attack, Mike.

    Good positioning, John.
    makes me wanna load up a gun bus and head to Californi!
    Makes me want to move to Virginia!!

  13. #13
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    I for sure want to visit Virginia now...

    Can out of state residents OC in Virginia?
    Gun control isn't about guns -- it is about control.

  14. #14
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    MORE OPEN CARRY MEET UNTIL THEY GROW NUMB OF IT, OR DEVELOP A BRAIN ENOUGH TO UNDERSTAND THE LAW? WHAT SAY YOU?

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    demnogis wrote:
    I for sure want to visit Virginia now...

    Can out of state residents OC in Virginia?
    Most definitely - let us know when you're going to be here and we'll throw an OC dinner in your honor !!!!

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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