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Thread: Ammo shortage

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    Guys, pardon my ignorance if i missed something and asking the obvious, but here is my question. We all know of significant ammo shortage all around the country. Lets leave the whole militaryspent casingsbattle alone and just talk about brand new ammo. The shortage could be due to supply or demand or both. Now, the demand part i understand, but i find it had to believe that obama-related demand spike would clear out the shelves like that. 7.62x39, 5.45x39, .223, .308 maybe. But 9 mm, 380 ACP, 45 ACP and other generic calibers i find hard to believe. So, my question is - is there a problem on the supply end i'm not aware of and if yes, what is it? Is there something hidden and secret going on which makes ammo manufacturers produce less ammo?

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    I heard from the most reliable source: a sporting goods clerk at WalMart, that Winchester has shut down 2 ammunition production plants.

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    Regular Member hp-hobo's Avatar
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    Really?

    I heard just the opposite yesterday from a Wal-Mart employee. According to her, ammunition manufacturers have actually ramped up production over the last few months and are stockpiling ammo, warehouses full, until... Now wait for this... The Obama administration imposes the 500% tax on ammo so they can get away with charging more for ammo than they do now, and we won't know if the price increase is tax or profit.

    When I asked her if it wouldn't make more business sense to sell the ammo they have on hand now, maybe at a slightly elevated price and before the "500%" tax makes it unaffordable, she told me without batting an eye that the ammo companies also own all the gun manufacturers so if you can't buy ammo you'll spend your money on new guns, then pay whatever price you need to down the road for the ammo. She also told me that the ammo/gun manufacturers are creating new calibers so there will be a larger selection of guns and ammo for people to purchase. It's a conspiracy amongst the manufacturers to make it harder to ban all guns. I kid you not.

    I'm sure she's correct because she said her boss told her it was so. I bet he's a genius too.
    "The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun, is a good guy with a gun."

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    See!? Further confirmation that WalMart clerks are all-knowing, all-seeing.




  5. #5
    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    I'm inclined to think this is a demand side issue. This morning I was in .... you guessed it, Wal-Mart talking to the sporting goods manager and assistant manager. They were completely out of .45ACP and only had 3 boxes of 9mm being 50 ct CCI Blazer 115 gr. They are getting 4 boxes of .45ACP tonight, no 9mm and after that and her computer shows her that 9mm and .45ACP is out at their distribution warehouse so she doesn't know when after that. They had a 2 boxes of 100 ct .40 WWB and will be getting more, 3 boxes of CCI Blazer .223, 2 boxes of 30-06, 1 box of .308, several boxes of 7.62X39 and a bunch of .22 and shotgun shells of various types. This obviously begged the question of "why?" Our discussion was about what they see, not what they think.
    • They said that they have recently, within the last few months, seen a big increase in LEO coming in to get pistol ammo for personal use which is new as they used to get most of it through the local LE offices.
    • They haven't seen until very recently a change in the amount of ammo they get delivered.
    • For the last several months most pistol ammo is gone within a few days although for most of that time their stock received from the warehouse had been steady.
    • .45ACP is the hardest for them to keep on the shelf followed by 9mm. .40 availability has been better and stays longer on the shelf.
    • The last few shipments have included ZERO boxes of "popular rifle calibers" such as ".30-30, .223, .308 or .270".
    • They have been surprised at the multitude of rumors, most of them unsubstantiated, later proved wrong or just "out there" they hear from people about ammo supplies, ammo tax hikes
    For pistol ammo this appears to me with all the information I have seen the last several months to be primarily a demand side issue. I think there is a lot of panic and stocking up buying going on just like with firearms, driving up price and choking availability.

    EDIT: I've been on several ammo sights during lunch and every single one of them have a statement along the lines of "Due to a huge increase in demand, shipping times have been delayed ____" with the blank being days or even weeks. Definitely a demand side problem.
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    7.62x39mm is all dried up. people are buying it because they know whats going to happen.

    they are all terrorists.

    btw it cost me $350 for 1000rnds of 7.62x39mm

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    Regular Member hp-hobo's Avatar
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    There is one bright spot in all of this though.

    All three Wal-Marts I visited yesterday (one where I live and two in the "big city" where I went for a VA doctor'sappointment) have loads of Remington .25 ACP 50 grainFMJ ammo on the shelf. So anybody using a .25 for their PD or HD weapon is in like Flynn.

    Maybe I should start carrying either my Lorcin or Hawes. They're both very intimidating, especially the Lorcin with the pink pearl grip.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------

    I agree.It almost has to bealldemend side because I'm sure no manufacturer or remanufacturer has cut production in the last year. My local store also has been able to keep a few boxes ofWWB .40 S&W on the shelf the last couple of weeks. To bad I don't shoot WWB... And we have almost 3k rounds of .40 cal ratholed.
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    Demand has simply outstripped supply. We can't get common ammo calibers from *any* manufacturer or wholesaler just now. Whether these people have formed some oligopoly in order to exploit the situation by restricting production and thus jacking up prices, I somehow doubt. There's always someone who wants to cash in now and I would expect them to be putting out as much as possible. They are still filling back orders since the election, so I doubt this will be resolved very soon. I hope by summer we can get back to a semblance of normal business anyway.

    As for this supposed 500% ammo tax hike, the details of the proposal (not yet adopted and maybe never) apply as an excise to the manufacturer's cost and, at the time of the proposal, amounted to something like $1 a box. 9mm ammo wouldn't cost $100 for a box of 50 because of this, even if it went through, at least in the proposed form I saw. The recent inflation in the cost of metal has been responsible for much of the increase in ammo prices leading into the recent spike in demand, and now people hoarding the stuff is creating the opportunity for gouging additionally. We'll see.

    -ljp

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    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    Well, eventually Grapeshot and Citizen will run out of room for storage and then the rest of us will be able to buy some without waiting for weeks.

    ETA: Eventually Grapeshot, Citizen and SKIDMARK ... :P
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    deepdiver wrote:
    Well, eventually Grapeshot and Citizen will run out of room for storage and then the rest of us will be able to buy some without waiting for weeks.

    It's not Grapeshot that's hoarding.



    And yes, that is a drive-up window you see there.

    stay safe.

    skidmark

    *edit to remove redundant image info

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    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    skidmark wrote:
    *hoarded stash*
    DOH ... I meant to include you in the first place so I fixed it ...
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    It's times like this that I'm glad people make fun of me for being 'resourceful.'

    2x Dillon 550, 2x Dillon 1050.... Make my .223 bullets from wheel weights and old .22lr casings.

    And if you cut off the extra .223 brass and push it through a .300 ring die, drop a properly sized cast lead 'pellet' and squish the whole thing to .308....

    All those .308 sabots are pretty nice too...

    All I have to buy is primers and powder.

    ...and you laughed at me for my habit of picking up brass at the range for 15 years. I think only God has more brass than I do. And that means, I have one absolutely huge stash of ammo. And it was really cheap too. Even by the standards of 10 years ago.

    I bet I could sell enough to pay off the house, and still not even notice that I sold any....
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    To add to the insanity the shop down the road can't even get primers or powder for the local shooting club to reload with. Lot's of shot for the clay guys but nothing to make it go BANG. Should have gotten the reloading gear years ago.

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    I waws getting my ammo through Sportsmansguide or Cheaperthandirt, but they can't keep any in stock right now. I'm looking for .45LC and .30 carbine (M1), I also use the 9x18 Mak round which I can only get in 1000 rd, when it's in stock. (Wally World doesnt' carry any of this ammo)

    Just out of curiosity, last night, I checked on .22LR and Mag ammo. Even that is hard to find.

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    Regular Member rodbender's Avatar
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    500% increase means it goes up 5 times what it is now. On a $20 box of ammo excise tax is $2 or 10%. That means excise tax would go up to $10. A $20 box of ammo would then be about $30. Not as bad as everyone has made it out to be. It's still ridiculous, just not as bad as everyone thinks.

    BATFE is consideringchanging their rules on how often gun and ammo manufacturers have topay the excise tax. It is now bi-weekly (every 2 weeks). They are changing it to quarterly (every 3 months), just like everything else, tires, alcohol,tobacco,etc., etc. Manufacturing companies say this will lower the price a little due to greatlyreduced paperwork.


    Edit: spelling
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    If you don't think it is a demand issue go to a Gun Show when it first opens. Then watch guys hauling out ammo on handtrucks.
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson

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    I got one suggestion to all this:

    Rimfire!

    Put a .22LR rimfire conversion kit on your Glock, Sig or your 1911 frame and practice often with a $15.00 550 round box of .22LR.

    Save the big bore stuff for social encounters.

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    GWbiker wrote:
    I got one suggestion to all this:

    Rimfire!

    Put a .22LR rimfire conversion kit on your Glock, Sig or your 1911 frame and practice often with a $15.00 550 round box of .22LR.

    Save the big bore stuff for social encounters.
    Good thinkin', except...

    When was the last time to tried to purchase some .22lr? My local Wal-Mart is more likely to have .223 in stock (four boxes the other day) than .22lr. Your .22 Glock/Sig/1911 is useless without ammo.
    "The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun, is a good guy with a gun."

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    VAopencarry wrote:
    If you don't think it is a demand issue go to a Gun Show when it first opens. Then watch guys hauling out ammo on handtrucks.


    Exactly. It's mass panic and stupidity. When Wally World gets in two cases of Winchester white box 9mm and then one guy goes in there and buys ALL of it, that's a demand issue, not a supply issue. When Cheaper Than Dirt has 20 round boxes of Wolf 7.62x39 going for $15 and they sell out in a few days, that's a demand issue.

    There's only one real reason for the ammo shortage and price gouging.



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    hp-hobo wrote:
    GWbiker wrote:
    I got one suggestion to all this:

    Rimfire!

    Put a .22LR rimfire conversion kit on your Glock, Sig or your 1911 frame and practice often with a $15.00 550 round box of .22LR.

    Save the big bore stuff for social encounters.
    Good thinkin', except...

    When was the last time to tried to purchase some .22lr? My local Wal-Mart is more likely to have .223 in stock (four boxes the other day) than .22lr. Your .22 Glock/Sig/1911 is useless without ammo.
    Ya' just gotta' look past your local Wally mart, guy.

    But since you asked, I bought 500 rounds just last week. Murphy's Gun shop in Tucson in case your interested. Aquila .22LR from Mexico and CCI Quik Shok. Aquila is quite good, but smoke stinks like hell. But avoid the cheap Round Lead .22LR ammo from Mexico at $1.97 for 50 rounds, 'cause it's a beetch to clean out.

    I'm looking at over 5,000 rounds of .22LR ammo in my storage area, mostly Federal Value packs of 550 rounds.

    Rimfire isn't too popular down here, which may make it more available.

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    It's all demand. Not only is there panic over what might happen with the government, but there is a lot of additional buying being done for the purpose of survival preparations, and ammo is possibly the number one item bought in that area (though bulk foods are also being bought in huge numbers).

    If there was any kind of effort to slow down ammo manufacture, do you really think it wouldn't be leaked? On the other hand, I doubt there is a whole lot of extra manufacturing being done, either. Some yes, but companies don't generally go to the expense of opening new plants and/or hiring (many) new employees for what they more than likely consider a TEMPORARY spike in demand. They'd have to lay off and close plants in the near future if they did that. I'm sure many are paying some overtime, but I doubt it goes much farther than that.

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    Slayer of Paper wrote:
    On the other hand, I doubt there is a whole lot of extra manufacturing being done, either. Some yes, but companies don't generally go to the expense of opening new plants and/or hiring (many) new employees for what they more than likely consider a TEMPORARY spike in demand. They'd have to lay off and close plants in the near future if they did that. I'm sure many are paying some overtime, but I doubt it goes much farther than that.


    Exactly. You can call this whole thing the "ammo bubble." I'll just sit and wait for it to pop and get minedirt cheap.

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    Contrived US Ammunition Shortage
    FromCharleston Voice

    3-8-9

    From an undisclosed, but reliable source. I'd like to know who told Remington to cut back on production....
    ______

    Less than 10 days ago I went to buy my wife a handgun from a large national sporting goods retail outlet near Boise. They have 3 very large sets of shelves that are normally stacked high with every imaginable type of ammo, but on this day they had maybe 2% of their normal stock and 0, yes ZERO .38 cal. When I asked the salesman about it he said that they have not been able to get much and when they do it sells within a few days.


    Because I am so concerned about what is unfolding in our country I decided to check around. Out of 5 major outlets I was able to obtain 2 boxes of .40 cal. and 1 box of .38, 250 rounds total. The story from each salesman was the same, there is none available and they don't know when they will receive more.


    At one location I got talking with the clerk and he told me that his brother works for Remington and has run their ammo making machines for over 10 years, in the past few years they have run 12 hours a day 7 days a week. TWO WEEKS after our last elections their management informed them that they were to cut back to 2 1/2 days a week and only run 8 hour a day. He said they had 50 semi-truck trailers waiting to be loaded but that they could not fill them.


    A small family owned gun store I have dealt with for the last several years had quite a bit available but I was told again that they have scoured the entire area and bought everything they could find to resell, and they thought what they had would be gone by this Monday, tomorrow. After talking more with the owner he told me that last Wednesday and Thursday his staff had spent the entire time calling every gun store in Oregon, Idaho, and Washington and could not locate anything more than a few boxes here and there. While I was in the store he took off to drive all the way to Montana to get what was available there in a few small towns, that is at least a 16 hour round trip drive.


    Apparently over thirty people were waiting for an ammo shipment in Mt. Home, Id. and when the Semi finally arrived it had only 12 boxes of pistol ammo aboard and they were told not to expect anymore in the near future.


    I haven't heard this situation mentioned anywhere, and I would never have discovered it if I hadn't gone to purchase a gun.


    Something very strange is happening out here. I can only hope that it is a local phenomenon, but I fear that is much larger. Please inform your readers so that they can find out for themselves.

    http://www.rense.com/general85/cntrived.htm

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    spiritof76 wrote:
    Contrived US Ammunition Shortage
    FromCharleston Voice

    3-8-9

    From an undisclosed, but reliable source. I'd like to know who told Remington to cut back on production....
    ______

    Less than 10 days ago I went to buy my wife a handgun from a large national sporting goods retail outlet near Boise. They have 3 very large sets of shelves that are normally stacked high with every imaginable type of ammo, but on this day they had maybe 2% of their normal stock and 0, yes ZERO .38 cal. When I asked the salesman about it he said that they have not been able to get much and when they do it sells within a few days.


    Because I am so concerned about what is unfolding in our country I decided to check around. Out of 5 major outlets I was able to obtain 2 boxes of .40 cal. and 1 box of .38, 250 rounds total. The story from each salesman was the same, there is none available and they don't know when they will receive more.


    At one location I got talking with the clerk and he told me that his brother works for Remington and has run their ammo making machines for over 10 years, in the past few years they have run 12 hours a day 7 days a week. TWO WEEKS after our last elections their management informed them that they were to cut back to 2 1/2 days a week and only run 8 hour a day. He said they had 50 semi-truck trailers waiting to be loaded but that they could not fill them.


    A small family owned gun store I have dealt with for the last several years had quite a bit available but I was told again that they have scoured the entire area and bought everything they could find to resell, and they thought what they had would be gone by this Monday, tomorrow. After talking more with the owner he told me that last Wednesday and Thursday his staff had spent the entire time calling every gun store in Oregon, Idaho, and Washington and could not locate anything more than a few boxes here and there. While I was in the store he took off to drive all the way to Montana to get what was available there in a few small towns, that is at least a 16 hour round trip drive.


    Apparently over thirty people were waiting for an ammo shipment in Mt. Home, Id. and when the Semi finally arrived it had only 12 boxes of pistol ammo aboard and they were told not to expect anymore in the near future.


    I haven't heard this situation mentioned anywhere, and I would never have discovered it if I hadn't gone to purchase a gun.


    Something very strange is happening out here. I can only hope that it is a local phenomenon, but I fear that is much larger. Please inform your readers so that they can find out for themselves.

    http://www.rense.com/general85/cntrived.htm


    Oh noes!!! Quick!! Everyone go buy more ammo!!!!



    :quirky

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    Be a fiddling... G R A S S H O P P E R

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    W I N T E R is still coming .



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