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Thread: Rochester Hills/Auburn Hills Gathering

  1. #1
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    Thursday, April 16 at 5:30 pm
    Boston Market - 3200 Walton Blvd Rochester Hills 48309
    Walton Blvd and Adams Rd

    I think anyone can print the tickets, so print as many as you think you may need. I'll do my best to get the organization info from the 2nd Amendment March people (tax id #'s etc) so that I can submit the fundraiser form. I'll call the restaurant and see about large groups and exactly what we put on the tickets...whether it's our organization, or where the donation is going, and post that also. After re-reading the fundraiser information on their site, I'm hoping they don't restrict fundraising activities to schools and such...I'll check on that too...hopefully the family memory trait (or lack there of) won't prevent this from happening!

    http://www.bostonmarket.com/restaurant<---click on the fundraising link for the tickets.
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    Peanut, remember, Michigander is planning an event on April 12 at River Wood Park in Auburn Hills. There may be some members who cannot attend the 12th at the park but might be able to attend one of the dates you listed. Run with it and see what happens.

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    Oh...didn't see that one...we'll see...
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    peanutpublications wrote:
    does anyone have a suggestion as to which organization to make the donation to?
    How about the non-profit entity that Michigan Open Carry is creating? I don't know at what stage of development it will be at, at the time of the proposed fundraiser, and if it could accept donations, but check with Venator.

    I can't think of any better place for fundraising money from anopen carry eventto gothan to a non-profit that works for open carry rights.
    "The principle of self-defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi . . ."--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr

    “He who cannot protect himself or his nearest and dearest or their honor by non-violently facing death, may and ought to do so by violently dealing with the oppressor. He who can do neither of the two is a burden.”--M. K. Gandhi

    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." --M. K. Gandhi

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    DanM wrote:
    peanutpublications wrote:
    does anyone have a suggestion as to which organization to make the donation to?
    How about the non-profit entity that Michigan Open Carry is creating? I don't know at what stage of development it will be at, at the time of the proposed fundraiser, and if it could accept donations, but check with Venator.

    I can't think of any better place for fundraising money from anopen carry eventto gothan to a non-profit that works for open carry rights.
    I concur, we are hoping to incorporate as a non-profit in Michigan by the 1st of April. But if not us then GOA is a great place to donate money, though they are not a non-profit. Or any other firearm right group like the second amendment march.

    I would suggest a weekend as more people would be available from farther away. When is the wedding? Perhaps after the blessed day.
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    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    as much as i agree it would be nice to have them donate to mioc or goa, i think it would be a better cause to donate to another group (so as long as they are not anti-gun). otherwise, i would feel that we're ONLY going there to benefit ourselves in some way. rather then going there to meet, etc, and at the same time some other random group hearing about us, because we did ask for the donations to go there instead of in our own interest.

    kind of seems like we're using the system in our own interest to get money out of going there...

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    viperar15 wrote:
    as much as i agree it would be nice to have them donate to mioc or goa, i think it would be a better cause to donate to another group (so as long as they are not anti-gun). otherwise, i would feel that we're ONLY going there to benefit ourselves in some way. rather then going there to meet, etc, and at the same time some other random group hearing about us, because we did ask for the donations to go there instead of in our own interest.

    kind of seems like we're using the system in our own interest to get money out of going there...
    I see what you're saying, but I have to disagree to an extent.

    Are you an NRA member? EVen if you're not, pretend you are for a minute. Would you NOT have money like this donated to the NRA because you are a member?

    "MOC" doesn't really even exist yet, but when it does, we'll all be members (hopefully), just like if you were an NRA member, or a GOA member, or whatever else.

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    true, but at the same time, doing it this way could potentially get the MOC name out also, in a way that we help others then just gun only groups. i'm coming at it in the aspect of thinking of getting the name out to the general public that we not only protect ourselves, but also help others. basically... show a positive side to others.
    just a thought though:-)

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    DanM (heheh, don't transpose those letters! lol) anyways...my brother and I had actually talked about that, and we were of the same feelings as viperar15. Especially for the first time being in that particular location. Maybe after a couple meetings, and once MOC is fully established, I would agree that it would be nice to donate the funds to our own organization.

    Venator - I would really like to have it on a weekend especially for availability purposes, so after the wedding had crossed my mind quite a few times..hence, why I didn't post sooner :-) The wedding is May 16th.

    SQL - I agree with you, and not to cause a rift...but I would see donating to a National cause, slightly different than donating to a local cause.

    EDIT...we wouldn't HAVE to do the fundraiser thing, I just thought it might be nice to make a donation somewhere.
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    viperar15 wrote:
    true, but at the same time, doing it this way could potentially get the MOC name out also, in a way that we help others then just gun only groups. i'm coming at it in the aspect of thinking of getting the name out to the general public that we not only protect ourselves, but also help others. basically... show a positive side to others.
    just a thought though:-)
    MOC did help out a charity last year, but when we get ournon-profit coporation incorporated (which will happen), we could use all the start up money we can get. Once we are on our feet we would help local charities that are not gun related. But until then MOC needs all the financial help it can get.....Buy some buttons. http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum30/18650.html
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    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    viperar15 wrote:
    as much as i agree it would be nice to have them donate to mioc or goa, i think it would be a better cause to donate to another group (so as long as they are not anti-gun). otherwise, i would feel that we're ONLY going there to benefit ourselves in some way. rather then going there to meet, etc, and at the same time some other random group hearing about us, because we did ask for the donations to go there instead of in our own interest.

    kind of seems like we're using the system in our own interest to get money out of going there...
    There is no way I will donate my money or time, as a member of a group, for the group to then use the resource I donate for anything not related in some way to the group's mission.

    It doesn't make sense, and let me illustrate by a hypothetical example:

    I allocate40% of my money and 30% of my time, available for charity, on the issue of lung cancer and with an organization focused on that issue.

    I allocatethe balance of my money and time available for charity (60% and 70%, respectively)on the issue of gun rights and with an organization focused on that issue. If that organization turns around and uses part of itsmoney orpart of itstime in support of lung cancer or any other non-gun rights issue then, in effect, they are diverting what I have personally chosen as my charitable priorities and allocations. I will then look for another gun-rights organization that stays within their mission so that my allocations to my personal charitable priorities remain what I intended them to be.

    In other words, I spend the portion of my time and money on attending open-carry events and open-carry causes which I want to go to open-carry. If I feel like donating other portions of time or money on other issues, I will participate in those issues'events and causes elsewhere.

    There is nothing wrong, and it's absolutely the right and expected thing to do, for an organization to stay within its mission, in terms of organizing events and collecting money to serve its mission. As a donor to charity, that's what I count on. The $5 I give to the lung cancer organization, I want all $5 spent on something related to lung cancer. The 5 hours I spend at a lung cancer event, I want all five hours to be used in furtherance of the lung cancer organization's mission.

    That just my opinion, not saying you're wrong, but it does guide whether or not I spend money and time with an organization.


    ETA: The only logical exception to this that I could personally accept is if two or more unrelated groups I'm involved with are sharing event expenses, sharing the donations at the event proportionally, and/or have a history of supporting each others causes. Thus, if my lung cancer group and my gun-rights group have such relationships then I could consider some things acceptable. But I don't see a whole lot of that between gun-rights organizations and other organizations not related to gun rights.
    "The principle of self-defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi . . ."--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr

    “He who cannot protect himself or his nearest and dearest or their honor by non-violently facing death, may and ought to do so by violently dealing with the oppressor. He who can do neither of the two is a burden.”--M. K. Gandhi

    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." --M. K. Gandhi

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    DanM wrote:
    viperar15 wrote:
    as much as i agree it would be nice to have them donate to mioc or goa, i think it would be a better cause to donate to another group (so as long as they are not anti-gun). otherwise, i would feel that we're ONLY going there to benefit ourselves in some way. rather then going there to meet, etc, and at the same time some other random group hearing about us, because we did ask for the donations to go there instead of in our own interest.

    kind of seems like we're using the system in our own interest to get money out of going there...
    There is no way I will donate my money or time, as a member of a group, for the group to then use the resource I donate for anything not related in some way to the group's mission.

    It doesn't make sense, and let me illustrate by a hypothetical example:

    I allocate40% of my money and 30% of my time, available for charity, on the issue of lung cancer and with an organization focused on that issue.

    I allocatethe balance of my money and time available for charity (60% and 70%, respectively)on the issue of gun rights and with an organization focused on that issue. If that organization turns around and uses part of itsmoney orpart of itstime in support of lung cancer or any other non-gun rights issue then, in effect, they are diverting what I have personally chosen as my charitable priorities and allocations. I will then look for another gun-rights organization that stays within their mission so that my allocations to my personal charitable priorities remain what I intended them to be.

    In other words, I spend the portion of my time and money on attending open-carry events and open-carry causes which I want to go to open-carry. If I feel like donating other portions of time or money on other issues, I will participate in those issues'events and causes elsewhere.

    There is nothing wrong, and it's absolutely the right and expected thing to do, for an organization to stay within its mission, in terms of organizing events and collecting money to serve its mission. As a donor to charity, that's what I count on. The $5 I give to the lung cancer organization, I want all $5 spent on something related to lung cancer. The 5 hours I spend at a lung cancer event, I want all five hours to be used in furtherance of the lung cancer organization's mission.

    That just my opinion, not saying you're wrong, but it does guide whether or not I spend money and time with an organization.
    A good argument, I'll have to think about it. What if members gave their personal time to helping out under the umbrella of MOC. For example we pick up trash as a MOC activity? Or set up a table at a charity event and ask for donations for that charity and for MOC under the banner of the MOC? All while educating those that stop by about MOC and firearm rights. These might be more acceptable endeavors. And use any MOC donated monies for firearm rights. Thoughts?
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    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    Venator wrote:
    DanM wrote:
    viperar15 wrote:
    as much as i agree it would be nice to have them donate to mioc or goa, i think it would be a better cause to donate to another group (so as long as they are not anti-gun). otherwise, i would feel that we're ONLY going there to benefit ourselves in some way. rather then going there to meet, etc, and at the same time some other random group hearing about us, because we did ask for the donations to go there instead of in our own interest.

    kind of seems like we're using the system in our own interest to get money out of going there...
    There is no way I will donate my money or time, as a member of a group, for the group to then use the resource I donate for anything not related in some way to the group's mission.

    It doesn't make sense, and let me illustrate by a hypothetical example:

    I allocate40% of my money and 30% of my time, available for charity, on the issue of lung cancer and with an organization focused on that issue.

    I allocatethe balance of my money and time available for charity (60% and 70%, respectively)on the issue of gun rights and with an organization focused on that issue. If that organization turns around and uses part of itsmoney orpart of itstime in support of lung cancer or any other non-gun rights issue then, in effect, they are diverting what I have personally chosen as my charitable priorities and allocations. I will then look for another gun-rights organization that stays within their mission so that my allocations to my personal charitable priorities remain what I intended them to be.

    In other words, I spend the portion of my time and money on attending open-carry events and open-carry causes which I want to go to open-carry. If I feel like donating other portions of time or money on other issues, I will participate in those issues'events and causes elsewhere.

    There is nothing wrong, and it's absolutely the right and expected thing to do, for an organization to stay within its mission, in terms of organizing events and collecting money to serve its mission. As a donor to charity, that's what I count on. The $5 I give to the lung cancer organization, I want all $5 spent on something related to lung cancer. The 5 hours I spend at a lung cancer event, I want all five hours to be used in furtherance of the lung cancer organization's mission.

    That just my opinion, not saying you're wrong, but it does guide whether or not I spend money and time with an organization.
    A good argument, I'll have to think about it. What if members gave their personal time to helping out under the umbrella of MOC. For example we pick up trash as a MOC activity? Or set up a table at a charity event and ask for donations for that charity and for MOC under the banner of the MOC? All while educating those that stop by about MOC and firearm rights. These might be more acceptable endeavors. And use any MOC donated monies for firearm rights. Thoughts?
    Wow, I don't know about this. I suppose if take donations for both, or pledge to give a portion of the donations to the charity, it might be ok. The problem I see with this is that not every member will want to be affiliated with every charity. I might not want to be member of an organization that supports cancer research, and I have that right... hm...So, in my eyes, the problem is with choosing the charity the "name" is used for.

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    Venator wrote:
    A good argument, I'll have to think about it. What if members gave their personal time to helping out under the umbrella of MOC. For example we pick up trash as a MOC activity? Or set up a table at a charity event and ask for donations for that charity and for MOC under the banner of the MOC? All while educating those that stop by about MOC and firearm rights. These might be more acceptable endeavors. And use any MOC donated monies for firearm rights. Thoughts?
    I think those are all personally acceptable to me, because there is an exchange of consideration (things of value) between two otherwise unrelated entities. MOC picks up trash, MOC gets a nice sign by the side of the road or publicized acknowledgement which is good for public relations. MOC partners with an unrelated charity and shares donations, MOC gets space to fly its sign and talk to people and keep a share of donations for itself.

    If there isa purely open-carry get-together and all or some of the donations go to lung cancer, breast cancer, the SPCA, etc., where is the exchange of consideration? It's not there, and I don't want to get zero return on my hard-earned donations of time and money.
    "The principle of self-defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi . . ."--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr

    “He who cannot protect himself or his nearest and dearest or their honor by non-violently facing death, may and ought to do so by violently dealing with the oppressor. He who can do neither of the two is a burden.”--M. K. Gandhi

    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." --M. K. Gandhi

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    DanM wrote:
    Venator wrote:
    A good argument, I'll have to think about it. What if members gave their personal time to helping out under the umbrella of MOC. For example we pick up trash as a MOC activity? Or set up a table at a charity event and ask for donations for that charity and for MOC under the banner of the MOC? All while educating those that stop by about MOC and firearm rights. These might be more acceptable endeavors. And use any MOC donated monies for firearm rights. Thoughts?
    I think those are all personally acceptable to me, because there is an exchange of consideration (things of value) between two otherwise unrelated entities. MOC picks up trash, MOC gets a nice sign by the side of the road or publicized acknowledgement which is good for public relations. MOC partners with an unrelated charity and shares donations, MOC gets space to fly its sign and talk to people and keep a share of donations for itself.

    If there isa purely open-carry get-together and all or some of the donations go to lung cancer, breast cancer, the SPCA, etc., where is the exchange of consideration? It's not there, and I don't want to get zero return on my hard-earned donations of time and money.
    Ah.. yes.. that's what I wanted to say, but couldn't for some reason... I completely agree with this. My previous statement stands though and as an orgainzation you'd want to be careful when choosing charities, and probably wouldn't want to get too specific when straying away from firearms.

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    Ok, so how about we axe the fundraiser idea for now, and just worry about the gathering? :P
    "I'm gonna show him what little girls are made of - gunpowder and lead." Miranda Lambert

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    These would be things to consider in the by laws and have some wording in them that if a non-firearm related charity is considered it would go to a voteby the board members and directors, or something along those lines. All things that can be worked out later.
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    While I agree to a point about donating to another charity could be a good thing, if we are going to do something along those lines, I think we need to get our group fully established. Meaning we have enough donations to sustain us, with leftovers... We could then begin to donate sums to other charities, putting our name on it. Even if we did the restaurant fundraiser, and chose another charity, I don't know that our name would be the only one on that donation. Not to mention, if we are going to start a non-profit organization, the only donations we will be recieving will be our own. There would be very few people that would know we were in need of donations. I would be all for donations to the non-profit MOC if it is up and running, otherwise, I think it should go tward the 2nd ammendment march.

    Just my 2 cents...

    I appologize if none of this makes sense, I have been doing a history paper for the past 10 hours...

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    Biker's rights groups do things all the time for "the children" in order to get some good publicity, to try to show the general public that they are not all the rough and tumble crowd that hollywood makes them out to be. I don't think that having a dinner at Boston Market, and Boston Market donating a percentage of sales to "the children" is really out of line. What are you getting out of it? Positive publicity. Not only does it help to promote OC, but it puts 2nd amendments activists in a different light. I thought MOC promoting a charity event only to be the very recipient might look a tad selfish. I like the "Second Amendment March" idea, but put whatever you want in between the quotes, and it looks good on us, no matter what.
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    Taurus850CIA wrote:
    Biker's rights groups do things all the time for "the children" in order to get some good publicity, to try to show the general public that they are not all the rough and tumble crowd that hollywood makes them out to be. I don't think that having a dinner at Boston Market, and Boston Market donating a percentage of sales to "the children" is really out of line. What are you getting out of it? Positive publicity.
    Your point of view is predicated on the premise that this is some highly publicized deal.

    I don't think you understand the deal going on at Boston Market, as presented by peanutpublications (assuming she/he is accurate). There is not a general charitable event being held by BM, such event and itsparticipants being publicized by BM, with significant public-relations gains to be expected by us.

    The deal with BM is, your organization arranges a group event at their shop and they "donate" 15% (this is really adiscount for potential volumebusiness, in their eyes I guarantee)of the sales during the event to an organization at your direction. As far as I understand, the BM shop ain't promising to do any publicity on the thing, just host the event and hope to make some whopping money on the traffic in their shop in order tojustify the15% discount, errr "donation", they agree to. There is nopublicity unless, I suppose, you bring the lights, cameras, and media with you. I don't think our open carry group is going to be bringing much in the way of lights, camera, and media with us, so all proceeds should go straight to MOC or another gun-rights group which fully supports open carry and can accept donations. Even if MOCdid in fact bring a lot of general media attention to ourselves at this BM event, again I go back to my point about exchange of consideration. Which organization "for the children" would we direct donations toward, because they are exchanging something of value toward this event, orgun-rights in general oropen-carry specifically?
    "The principle of self-defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi . . ."--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr

    “He who cannot protect himself or his nearest and dearest or their honor by non-violently facing death, may and ought to do so by violently dealing with the oppressor. He who can do neither of the two is a burden.”--M. K. Gandhi

    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." --M. K. Gandhi

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    peanutpublications wrote:
    Ok, so how about we axe the fundraiser idea for now, and just worry about the gathering? :P
    No, I say any opportunity to fundraise for MOC or another gun-rights organization is something to be considered.

    If a lot of people in our group would like to gather at a fine place to eat, and that fine place to eat would like to kick back 15%, in the direction of our choice,of what anyone spendswho walks in during the time we are there, then that place should get priority over any other fine place to eat which doesn't have such a deal.

    We have get-togethers frequentlyat restaurants. Why not at the restaurant you suggest, if they're going to throw money back at us?
    "The principle of self-defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi . . ."--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr

    “He who cannot protect himself or his nearest and dearest or their honor by non-violently facing death, may and ought to do so by violently dealing with the oppressor. He who can do neither of the two is a burden.”--M. K. Gandhi

    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." --M. K. Gandhi

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    I can possibly make a Thursday event, but will not be able to make a Wednesday event. Plus, Boston Market chicken has given me massive penicillin allergy reactions, so if I do go, I can't eat much. So count me as unlikely, and certainly not worth considering in scheduling the event, but I will try to make it if I can.

    Whether I make it or not, I greatly enjoy the idea of multiple meetings in Auburn Hills in less than a month. :celebrate
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    Here ismore information for the "Fundraising Night"at Boston Market on Walton Blvd.

    Map: MAP

    http://www.bostonmarket.com/fundraisers?page=inStore

    Your organization will:

    • Fill out our Fundraising Form.
    • Head to your nearest Boston Market to turn in your Fundraising Form and finalize the date.
    • Publicize your event with members of your organization.
    • Provide reminders and the Event Tickets to the organization.
    • Remind members to visit the designated Boston Market on the agreed upon date between 4p.m. and 10p.m., and hand the cashier the Event Ticket when ordering.



  24. #24
    Regular Member Taurus850CIA's Avatar
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    Jun 2008
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    DanM wrote:
    Taurus850CIA wrote:
    Biker's rights groups do things all the time for "the children" in order to get some good publicity, to try to show the general public that they are not all the rough and tumble crowd that hollywood makes them out to be. I don't think that having a dinner at Boston Market, and Boston Market donating a percentage of sales to "the children" is really out of line. What are you getting out of it? Positive publicity.
    Your point of view is predicated on the premise that this is some highly publicized deal.
    No, it's not. I understand perfectly that MOC would be responsible for spreading the word and publicizing the "event". It would be word of mouth, posters tacked up on cork boards, cross posting on other forums, emails, etc.

    For now, MOC is not a government recognized entity, and can't take monetary donations in the traditional sense, therefore your wish for the donation to this site can't be recognized (I understand also that another group could take the donation). When peanut proposed the idea, I saw it as an opportunity for the group to go out and do something good for another cause in the public eye, akin to trash and graffitti cleanups, something that will show others that we ARE, in fact, decent people, with concerns other than holding tightly to our guns. I understand your point, DanM, and this is just my opinion, however outside the box it may be.


    "Fault always lies in the same place, my fine babies: with him weak enough to lay blame." - Cort

    Gun control is like trying to reduce Drunk Driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars.

    Sentio aliquos togatos contra me conspirare.

    The answer to "1984" is "
    1776"

    With freedom comes much responsibility. It is for this reason so many are loathe to exercise it.

  25. #25
    Regular Member Taurus850CIA's Avatar
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    Peanut, I'm on board with whatever you decide to do.
    "Fault always lies in the same place, my fine babies: with him weak enough to lay blame." - Cort

    Gun control is like trying to reduce Drunk Driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars.

    Sentio aliquos togatos contra me conspirare.

    The answer to "1984" is "
    1776"

    With freedom comes much responsibility. It is for this reason so many are loathe to exercise it.

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