Rochester Hills/Auburn Hills Gathering

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Taurus850CIA wrote:

The more time we have to spread the word, the better turnout we'll have. The 16th is a little less than a month. Anyone who shows up with an event ticket between the times of 4pm and 10 pm on (date) will be contributing, so even if you can't make the group dinner, you can still be a part of the donation.

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Yes...I'm thinking the 16th would be better, time-wise.

So let's say this:

Thursday, April 16 at 5:30 pm
Boston Market - 3200 Walton Blvd Rochester Hills 48309
Walton Blvd and Adams Rd

I think anyone can print the tickets, so print as many as you think you may need. I'll do my best to get the organization info from the 2nd Amendment March people (tax id #'s etc) so that I can submit the fundraiser form. I'll call the restaurant and see about large groups and exactly what we put on the tickets...whether it's our organization, or where the donation is going, and post that also. After re-reading the fundraiser information on their site, I'm hoping they don't restrict fundraising activities to schools and such...I'll check on that too...hopefully the family memory trait (or lack there of) won't prevent this from happening!

Thanks everyone!
~P

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Taurus850CIA wrote:

Peanunt, better get ready... Skip already emailed me back.

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Um, ok...ready for what? lol Lot's of people?

I'm a party planner at heart!! :celebrate

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Taurus850CIA wrote:

tygereye wrote:

Taurus850CIA wrote:

Michigander wrote:

peanutpublications wrote:

How about this. We'll make the donation to the 2nd Amendment March. That way, maybe some other groups will turn out, and we'll get an even better response.

Now, for the date...April 8 (wed), 9 (thur), 15 (wed), or 16 (thur)?

~P

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Networking! Outstanding idea! That's what it's all about! The more organizations we can get involved with, the more attention we get, and the more people we get OCing.

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My thoughts exactly. I've e-mailed Skip asking for the necessary info, and I will be cross posting this on three other forums. I will also be sending out e-mails, and putting up some flyers on some corkboards around the area.

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Taurus...

Email me your poster... I will post them up at the college, and other various areas here...

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Your wish is my command :lol:

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LOL..... PPPPPBBBBLLLEEASE?????? LOL, and by the way... 16th works for me....

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tygereye wrote:

Taurus850CIA wrote:

tygereye wrote:

Taurus850CIA wrote:

Michigander wrote:

peanutpublications wrote:

How about this. We'll make the donation to the 2nd Amendment March. That way, maybe some other groups will turn out, and we'll get an even better response.

Now, for the date...April 8 (wed), 9 (thur), 15 (wed), or 16 (thur)?

~P

Click to expand...

Networking! Outstanding idea! That's what it's all about! The more organizations we can get involved with, the more attention we get, and the more people we get OCing.

Click to expand...

My thoughts exactly. I've e-mailed Skip asking for the necessary info, and I will be cross posting this on three other forums. I will also be sending out e-mails, and putting up some flyers on some corkboards around the area.

Click to expand...

Taurus...

Email me your poster... I will post them up at the college, and other various areas here...

Click to expand...

Your wish is my command :lol:

Click to expand...

LOL..... PPPPPBBBBLLLEEASE?????? LOL, and by the way... 16th works for me....

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Might as well email it to me too!

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Don't forget to edit the first post so that people don't have to go looking for the details.

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peanutpublications wrote:

Taurus850CIA wrote:

The more time we have to spread the word, the better turnout we'll have. The 16th is a little less than a month. Anyone who shows up with an event ticket between the times of 4pm and 10 pm on (date) will be contributing, so even if you can't make the group dinner, you can still be a part of the donation.

Click to expand...

Yes...I'm thinking the 16th would be better, time-wise.

So let's say this:

Thursday, April 16 at 5:30 pm
Boston Market - 3200 Walton Blvd Rochester Hills 48309
Walton Blvd and Adams Rd

I think anyone can print the tickets, so print as many as you think you may need. I'll do my best to get the organization info from the 2nd Amendment March people (tax id #'s etc) so that I can submit the fundraiser form. I'll call the restaurant and see about large groups and exactly what we put on the tickets...whether it's our organization, or where the donation is going, and post that also. After re-reading the fundraiser information on their site, I'm hoping they don't restrict fundraising activities to schools and such...I'll check on that too...hopefully the family memory trait (or lack there of) won't prevent this from happening!

Thanks everyone!
~P

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Peanut, I've added the Boston Market event to the Michigan Event Schedule Thread.

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For all members:

Folks, please PM me (it only takes a minute) or add a note to your postto let me know thatyou eitherconfirm your attendance to an event and the number of guests you will bring or that your attendance is possible.

The purpose of the stickied, Michigan Events Schedule Thread, for example,is that members do not have to browse the entire forum for upcoming events and their details and previous MOC events. It also aids to prevent threads on upcoming events becoming a cluster f**k.

If, by chance, MOC Members choose not to utilize the Event Thread, just let me know because there's no point in wasting my time creating/editing/moving/deleting/etc, the posts in the thread if membership chooses not to benefit from it.

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SpringerXDacp wrote:

peanutpublications wrote:

Yes...I'm thinking the 16th would be better, time-wise.

So let's say this:

Thursday, April 16 at 5:30 pm
Boston Market - 3200 Walton Blvd Rochester Hills 48309
Walton Blvd and Adams Rd

I think anyone can print the tickets, so print as many as you think you may need. I'll do my best to get the organization info from the 2nd Amendment March people (tax id #'s etc) so that I can submit the fundraiser form. I'll call the restaurant and see about large groups and exactly what we put on the tickets...whether it's our organization, or where the donation is going, and post that also. After re-reading the fundraiser information on their site, I'm hoping they don't restrict fundraising activities to schools and such...I'll check on that too...hopefully the family memory trait (or lack there of) won't prevent this from happening!

Thanks everyone!
~P

Click to expand...

Peanut, I've added the Boston Market event to the Michigan Event Schedule Thread.

[line]

For all members:

Folks, please PM me (it only takes a minute) or add a note to your postto let me know thatyou eitherconfirm your attendance to an event and the number of guests you will bring or that your attendance is possible.

The purpose of the stickied, Michigan Events Schedule Thread, for example,is that members do not have to browse the entire forum for upcoming events and their details and previous MOC events. It also aids to prevent threads on upcoming events becoming a cluster f**k.

If, by chance, MOC Members choose not to utilize the Event Thread, just let me know because there's no point in wasting my time creating/editing/moving/deleting/etc, the posts in the thread if membership chooses not to benefit from it.

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Thanks Springer... I do have quite a few updates...but I'm a little short on time right now...

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peanutpublications wrote:

SNIP

Thanks Springer... I do have quite a few updates...but I'm a little short on time right now...

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Reply to your PM sent

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Ok...here's the link for the tickets...
http://www.bostonmarket.com/pdfs/FundraiserTickets.pdf

I would suggest putting "MOC/2nd Amendment March" on the tickets to be on the safe side. The Boston Market area manager is going to be calling me tomorrow do talk further about details. Large groups are not a problem, so the more the merrier! I guess the high school across the street drops off bus loads unannounced and they do fine...

We have to have a pretty solid head count to the restaurant 5 days in advance...so post up if you're going. (Or...PM Springer like previously requested )

Taurus850 is working on getting the tax information needed from the 2AM people. The donation will be mailed 4 to 6 weeks after the event.

EDIT for entertainment purposes...

When I was on the phone last night with the Boston Market headquarters - I'm assuming - I was trying to relay to the girl I was talking to exactly what would be going on. I told her where we wanted to donate, and when the information got sent to her supervisor, that person took it as such...
BM rep: Hi, I understand you want to have a protest?
Me: No no no no no...It's just a group of people that are part of the Michigan chapter of opencarry.org, and we just want to have dinner.
BM rep: Oh, ok.

Yeah...

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Remember, the fact that there is a High School across the street is very important, because that means that by an idiotic, unconstitutional, and never enforced, but still very serious federal law, those without CPL's cannot carry to this one. It's not really a big deal, because most here have CPL's, but it is important to mention that in your first post. We have to cross every t and dot every i. :uhoh:

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Michigander wrote:

those without CPL's cannot carry to this one.

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***I am not a lawyer. The following is my layman's observation.***

Not so, if my reading of the Federal law is correct. Those without CPLs on Boston Market's propertywould fall within the "private property" exception to the GFSZ law:

...(B) Subparagraph (A) [the prohibitionof carry in a school zone]does[/font]not apply to the possession of a firearm—

(i) on private property not part of school grounds;...
[/font]

http://www.gunlaws.com/Gun_Free_School_Zones_Act.pdf
[/font]

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A better argument could probably be made that since you had to have the pistol purchase permit (without a CPL), that on OCer would fall under this exemption:


(A) It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to possess a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone.

(B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the possession of a firearm—
(i) on private property not part of school grounds;
(ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;

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Lots of things can be argued, but I think it's always best to proceed with complete caution, always assuming that cops will do everything they can to bust you, even if you know them to be OC friendly. I do not want a legal battle for no reason, so if I go, I won't be carrying.

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I wasn't even aware that there was a school across the street until the guy said that. Turns out, it's not a high school, it's Oakland University...

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Maybe you could just build your own firearm, from materials harvested in Michigan... then it didn't "move in interstate commerce" :quirky

What exactly does this mean:

(4) Nothing in this subsection shall be construed as
preempting or preventing a State or local government
from enacting a statute establishing gun free
school zones as provided in this subsection.

Does this mean that State law overrides this act and this act only applies if the state hasn't set "gun-free school zones"? Does Michigan law establish "gun free school zones"?

Either way, I don't think this applies to a University, correct?

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DrTodd wrote:

A better argument could probably be made that since you had to have the pistol purchase permit (without a CPL), that on OCer would fall under this exemption:


(A) It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to possess a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone.

(B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the possession of a firearm—
(i) on private property not part of school grounds;
(ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;

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***I'm not a lawyer. The following is my layman's observations.***

I thought of exactly that as well, DT, with regard to our Michiganhandgun registration scheme (formerly "safety inspection"). That is more like a "possession license" that the statute refers to than a purchase permit, in my layman's opinion. The purchase permit exists for only a short, finite time and then expires. Further, it is really *just* a purchase license, not a possession license, as it does not authorize possession of any existing guns you may have or thenewly purchased one. Legal possession comes with the registration.

All that being said, I'm aware of no test cases in Michigan or around the nation for an argument being made that a state gun registration qualifies the registrant for the exception under B(ii).

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Michigander wrote:

Lots of things can be argued, but I think it's always best to proceed with complete caution . . . if I go, I won't be carrying.

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I support your personal choice. I think that if we have LEO interaction and they mention any school zone problem, those of us carrying with a CPL should--before makingofficersaware of the "possession license" exception--make the officers aware of the "private property" exception and see what they do with it, since it would apply morebroadly to all of our friends in Boston Market.

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I didn't throw my comment out there expecting that anyone would use the argument... just wnated to prooke some thought. I really doubt that a PO would even consider it as an exception; a judge MIGHT though.


Dan M,

The state permit is actually a "License to purchase, carry, possess, or transport pistol" so perhaps it would qualify. http://legislature.mi.gov/doc.aspx?mcl-28-422

Since it is a license to possess, if all else fails I would at least throw it out there for a judge and or jury to consider

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SQLtables wrote:

Maybe you could just build your own firearm, from materials harvested in Michigan... then it didn't "move in interstate commerce" :quirky

What exactly does this mean:

(4) Nothing in this subsection shall be construed as
preempting or preventing a State or local government
from enacting a statute establishing gun free
school zones as provided in this subsection.

Does this mean that State law overrides this act and this act only applies if the state hasn't set "gun-free school zones"? Does Michigan law establish "gun free school zones"?

Either way, I don't think this applies to a University, correct?

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The pistol "made in MI" not a part of commerce argument may work, but there have been cases where the court considers that the metal or other parts came across state lines and therefore affected interstate commerce (a stretch, I know. Judges do that sometimes!)

Regarding number 4 above, a state can also have a law, with different definitions and specific aspects, and the federal GFSZ in no way prohibits a state from charging an individual with both or either one. Michigan has a state specific GFSZ Act, in addition to the federal law. On a related subject, there was a drug case in Grand Rapids not too long ago where the state charges were dropped and then the subject was re-arrested on federal charges and eventually convicted. I do think the FBI was the agency who rearrested the person, though. Don't forget that one "action" on your part can entail being charged w/ local, state, and federal violations. Usually PD on any level only arrest and prosecute based upon their particular law, but I don't think they are limited to that (I could be wrong, though).

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DrTodd wrote:

Dan M,

The state permit is actually a "License to purchase, carry, possess, or transport pistol" so perhaps it would qualify. http://legislature.mi.gov/doc.aspx?mcl-28-422

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DT, thank you for correcting me. Yes, according to the letter of the law, a "purchase permit" really is a general license to carry/possess/transport a handgun for a short duration of time (10 days). It would be interesting to see a case where part of the defense rests on this law.