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Thread: Respect You Elders!

  1. #1
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    From: FCPD PIO
    Sent: Thu Mar 12 14:11:37 2009
    Subject: News Release: Pickpocket in Woodlawn Area


    Pickpocket in Woodlawn Area

    A 68-year-old Lorton-area man and his wife, a 65-year-old woman, were walking together in the 8300 block of Frye Road around 3:40 p.m. when a man came up behind them. The suspect took the husband’s wallet from his pant pocket. The husband, who was legally carrying a concealed handgun, retrieved his gun and shot at the suspect. The suspect fled the scene in a teal, four-door car. The victim and his wife were not hurt during the incident.

    The suspect was described as black. He was approximately 6 feet tall, heavyset, with short hair. He was wearing a light gray, short sleeve T-shirt which might have had blue paint marks on it.

    Anyone with information is asked to contact Crime Solvers by phone at 1-866-411-TIPS(8477), e-mail at http://www.fairfaxcrimesolvers.org or text “TIP187” plus your message to CRIMES(274637) or call Fairfax County Police at 703-691-2131.

    Carry On.

    Ed

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    I wonder if he shot at the suspect as he was fleeing.. and if he did.. and hit him.. would he have been charged...
    Carry On.

    Ed

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    ed wrote:
    I wonder if he shot at the suspect as he was fleeing.. and if he did.. and hit him.. would he have been charged...
    I would not be surprised if the pickpocket came forward and sued for his soiled pants.

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    http://www.myfoxdc.com/dpp/news/0312...g_suspect_shot

    Pickpocketing Victim
    Shoots Suspect
    Last Edited: Thursday, 12 Mar 2009, 11:11 PM EDT
    Created On: Thursday, 12 Mar 2009, 10:25 PM EDT

    Wisdom Martin

    FAIRFAX COUNTY, Va. - A pickpocketing thief apparently picked the wrong man to mess with in Virginia. Fairfax County

    Police say the victim fought back, shooting at shooting at the suspect several times. It all happened on Frye Road in the Woodlawn area on Wednesday.

    It started out as a pickpocket crime around 3:40 p.m. Moments into the attack shots were fired.

    "I just saw police in my driveway the whole blocked taped off," says Wayne Boggans who lives on the road where the shooting happened.

    According to police, a 68-year-old man and his 65-year-old wife were walking on Frye road when a suspect approached them.

    "Another man came up, took the husband's wallet, a little struggle ensued. Eventually got the wallet-- our victim in this case was legally carrying a concealed weapon took out a gun and fired the suspect," says Officer Eddy Azcarate.

    Police say several shots were fired at the suspect, but he got away and left the scene in a small, green, four-door car. Investigators don't know if the suspect was shot.

    "I don't justify it. I have a child, he does play in the townhouse area. Kids could have been walking from the park," says neighbor Tammi Lindsey.

    People in the neighborhood were a bit surprised not just at the crime, but the fact the victim fired so many shots. They say the man had a right to protect himself, but he may have gone to far opening fire in this neighborhood.

    "I'm not too surprised because there has been a lot of activity around here lately. I am surprised the guy was carrying a gun walking with his wife, I understand why," says Tarsha Gardner.

    "It's very, very dangerous," said Wayne. "There is a lot of kids in the neighborhood walking-- could have got hit with a stray bullet. Bullet has no names."

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    Regular Member fairfax1's Avatar
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    The end of the video say the suspect if caught would be charged with Felony Theft since the amount was over $5. Is that right?

    $5.01+ theft is a felony?

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    Regular Member fairfax1's Avatar
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    http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/Picking-the-Wrong-Pocket.html
    Picking the Wrong PocketMan opens fire on pickpocket's carBy MATTHEW STABLEY
    Updated 4:45 PM EDT, Thu, Mar 12, 2009

    [img]http://media.nbcwashington.com/images/300*200/generic+gun.jpg[/img]

    The victim of a pickpocket tried to bring the thief to justice himself Wednesday.
    FAIRFAX, Va. -- A 68-year-old man opened fire on a car Wednesday afternoon after the driver lifted his wallet.

    The Lorton-area man was walking with his 65-year-old wife in the 8300 block of Frye Road at about 3:40 p.m. when another man approached them from behind and took the 68-year-old's wallet from his pants pocket, according to Fairfax County police.

    The victim was legally carrying a concealed handgun, which he fired at the culprit's car as he drove away. This attempt at vigilante justice failed to result in an arrest.

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    fairfax1 wrote:
    The end of the video say the suspect if caught would be charged with Felony Theft since the amount was over $5. Is that right?

    $5.01+ theft is a felony?
    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...00+cod+18.2-95
    § 18.2-95. Grand larceny defined; how punished.
    Any person who

    (i) commits larceny from the person of another of money or other thing of value of $5 or more,
    (ii) commits simple larceny not from the person of another of goods and chattels of the value of $200 or more, or
    (iii) commits simple larceny not from the person of another of any firearm, regardless of the firearm's value,
    shall be guilty of grand larceny, punishable by imprisonment in a state correctional facility for not less than one nor more than twenty years or, in the discretion of the jury or court trying the case without a jury, be confined in jail for a period not exceeding twelve months or fined not more than $2,500, either or both.


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    ed wrote:
    I wonder if he shot at the suspect as he was fleeing.. and if he did.. and hit him.. would he have been charged...
    In this case.. I say yes.

    A police officer would NOT have been allowed to shoot at him for this so why would a citizen have any more right to do so??

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tennessee_v._Garner

    Tennessee v. Garner, 471 U.S. 1 (1985)[1], was a case in which the Supreme Court of the United States held that under the Fourth Amendment, when a law enforcement officer is pursuing a fleeing suspect, he or she may use deadly force only to prevent escape if the officer has probable cause to believe that the suspect poses a significant threat of death or serious physical injury to the officer or others.


    From what was reported there is nothing to believe this simple thief would cause bodily harm to anyone if allowed to run off.

    The actions of the victim shooting at a man possibly killing him or others in the neighborhood PLUS the possibility to cause damage to vehicles, homes and other property was far worse a crime.

    But the bad guy did get more than he bargained for!!!


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    While I applaud the older gentleman for sticking up for himself, shooting at someone fleeing will not get you much - for one, you don't know what you are shooting at BEHIND you - two, won't look good to a jury.

    No issue at all of him defending himself from someone trying to do him harm, but shooting at someone fleeing will bring a world of hurt on you.

    I would venture to guess that criminal will think twice about robbing another man again

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    The guy is running away.

    You now know the outcome of the crime and all that is involved.

    Man wanted your wallet and ran off with it. You know the total loss to you from this crime. No assault, no rape, no death.

    It would be a different matter if you were to take action before the theft and while the crime was being attempted.

    Example:

    Man walks up and demands your wallet. You "should" just give it to him... then hope for the best. But you do not know what is going to happen after he gets it. He might cause you harm and beat you for not having enough cash.

    There is always the possibility that you could be justified in using greater force to stop the crime from being committed against you while it is being committed. Not always after the fact.

    Now if he pulled a knife or gun on you during the robbery and then ran off you might have something.

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    fairfax1 wrote:
    The end of the video say the suspect if caught would be charged with Felony Theft since the amount was over $5.* Is that right?*

    $5.01+ theft is a felony?
    $5 from a person is as bad as hundreds or thousands of dollars from a B&E exactly because what has happened here, since a confrontation is likely to occur. It's nearly on par with robbery.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Personal opinion - the threat was over, done, finis.

    I ain't goin' there!

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  13. #13
    Regular Member fairfax1's Avatar
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    LEO 229 wrote:
    fairfax1 wrote:
    The end of the video say the suspect if caught would be charged with Felony Theft since the amount was over $5. Is that right?

    $5.01+ theft is a felony?
    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...00+cod+18.2-95
    § 18.2-95. Grand larceny defined; how punished.
    Any person who
    (i) commits larceny from the person of another of money or other thing of value of $5 or more,
    (ii) commits simple larceny not from the person of another of goods and chattels of the value of $200 or more, or
    (iii) commits simple larceny not from the person of another of any firearm, regardless of the firearm's value,
    shall be guilty of grand larceny, punishable by imprisonment in a state correctional facility for not less than one nor more than twenty years or, in the discretion of the jury or court trying the case without a jury, be confined in jail for a period not exceeding twelve months or fined not more than $2,500, either or both.
    Thanks LEO229. I was thinking about point #2 where the limit was $200. I learned something new on OCDO.

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    LARCENY FROM PERSON
    Frye Road 8300
    * A 68-year-old Lorton-area man and his 65-year-old wife were walking together in the 8300
    block of Frye Road around 3:40 p.m. on Wednesday, March 11. A man came up behind them
    and took the man’s wallet from his pants pocket. The victim, who was legally carrying a
    concealed handgun, retrieved his gun and shot at the suspect. The suspect fled the scene in a teal,
    four-door car. The victim and his wife were not hurt during the incident.
    The suspect was described as black. He was approximately 6 feet tall, heavyset, with short hair.
    He was wearing a light gray, short sleeve T-shirt which might have had blue paint marks on it.
    Anyone with information is asked to contact Crime Solvers by phone at 1-866-411-TIPS(8477),
    e-mail at www.fairfaxcrimesolvers.org or text “TIP187” plus your message to CRIMES(274637)
    or call Fairfax County Police at 703-691-2131.

    http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/police/...t_03-20-09.pdf

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    way to go grampa. Would been nice to hit the bg so the leo's could pick him up at the er. Hopefully they will get him anyway

  16. #16
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    He's lucky he missed... if the thief was running away with the wallet, they probably would have charged grandpa with a crime... and still might even yet for even shooting.

    Although if they did, I imagine the public outcry would be overwhelming.

    TFred


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    TFred wrote:
    He's lucky he missed... if the thief was running away with the wallet, they probably would have charged grandpa with a crime... and still might even yet for even shooting.

    Although if they did, I imagine the public outcry would be overwhelming.

    TFred





    well I guess this is a grey area if the bg had the wallet and was on his way. I say he's a thief but your right probably better off missing him. But the what if I have to ask. What if he shoots and connects with said thug During robbery that's good in the state of va. Or am I missing something? The way I take it is during a mugging or robbery of person you can legally defend yourself right

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    From my understanding in Va use of deadly force to protect property is not justified. I am kinda surprised they did not hit him with a discharging a firearm charge.

  19. #19
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    There are a lot of details missing, the bad guy could have very well still been threatening them, or perhaps about to attack the wife for her purse.

    That totally changes the situation.

    TFred


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    Yes it does im almost sure that since it was not mentioned about charges. something else is missing. but im sure it under investigation

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    Regular Member Neplusultra's Avatar
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    POORBOY wrote:
    Yes it does im almost sure that since it was not mentioned about charges. something else is missing. but im sure it under investigation
    Are you saying the media left important details out :^)? The only thing worse is when they hype things up like they did with me.

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    Neplusultra wrote:
    POORBOY wrote:
    Yes it does im almost sure that since it was not mentioned about charges. something else is missing. but im sure it under investigation
    Are you saying the media left important details out :^)?* The only thing worse is when they hype things up like they did with me.
    ooooopppppssss did I imply that media left something out? I sure didn't.... no wait yep that's what I meant. What did you get into that caused hype guess I missed it on here.

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    If the suspect leads you to believe that he would harm you or take your life if you do not give him what he wants you are justified if you defend yourself. Now if there is no threat and some guy just grabs your wallet and runs that is a whole different ballgame that I don't even want to speculate about.

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