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Thread: Martial law for Schenectady, New York?

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    City Considers Implementing Martial Law To Clean Up Policing
    National Guard touted as transitional replacement for overly corrupt police force
    Steve Watson
    Infowars.net
    Thursday, March 19, 2009
    A New York State city is considering implementing martial law and replacing the local police force with National Guardsmen, in an effort to clean up law enforcement in the area.
    The remarkable idea comes in response to a rise in police corruption and illegal activity in Schenectady, according to a Capital News 9 report.
    City officials are reportedly considering scrapping the entire police force in response to the actions of a small selection of officers who have been accused of assaulting citizens.
    While other options have been raised, such as a consolidated county-wide police force diverting authority to the State Police, Mayor Brian Stratton has indicated that he believes the Governor could declare martial law during a period of “transition”.
    “It may be that as a stopgap measure, that you would need military forces - State Police, National Guard.” the Mayor said.
    “It’s a contrived scenario,” said the mayor. “But it’s not beyond the realm of possibilities if you go that particular route.”
    Schenectady’s Corporation Counsel John Van Norden said, “If you abolish the police department you still have a need - not an obligation - but a need to police the community. You would need something in transition. Declaring martial law would be one way to bridge the gap.”
    Watch a Capital News 9 video report on the story here.
    (Article continues below)

    It is a well documented fact that the use of military for law enforcement violates the Posse Comitatus Act.
    Section 1385 of the Act states, “Whoever, except in cases and under circumstances expressly authorized by the Constitution or Act of Congress, willfully uses any part of the Army or the Air Force as a posse comitatus or otherwise to execute the laws shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than two years, or both.”
    The original text of the Insurrection Act of 1807 also severely limits the power of any federal or state representative to deploy troops within the United States.
    For troops to be deployed, a condition has to exist that, “(1) So hinders the execution of the laws of that State, and of the United States within the State, that any part or class of its people is deprived of a right, privilege, immunity, or protection named in the Constitution and secured by law, and the constituted authorities of that State are unable, fail, or refuse to protect that right, privilege, or immunity, or to give that protection; or (2) opposes or obstructs the execution of the laws of the United States or impedes the course of justice under those laws. In any situation covered by clause (1), the State shall be considered to have denied the equal protection of the laws secured by the Constitution.”
    Only in times of major disaster or emergency, do governors have the authority to call out the state’s contingent of the National Guard. Using active duty U.S. Army in law enforcement operations inside America absent such conditions is completely illegal.
    The indiscretions of five or six Schenectady police officers hardly constitutes such a major emergency, particularly given that the police forces of major cities such as New York and L.A. are mired in corruption to a degree hundreds or thousands of times more pressing than that of Schenectady.
    Schenectady officials are expected to make a decision on what course of action to take in early April. In the meantime, readers may wish to remind the Mayor’s Office of these facts.

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    That's amazing but not beyond belief. But then again you need to take what you hear from Mr. Jones with a grain of salt. He's a fear monger. I don't mean he's always wrong but sometimes he strings stuff together.
    It looks to say it's merely an option they are considering. Hopefully enough people cry out to snuff that idea. I'll keep an eye on my northern neighbor. Those Empire folks are crazy!

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    YllwFvr wrote:
    But then again you need to take what you hear from Mr. Jones with a grain of salt. He's a fear monger. I don't mean he's always wrong but sometimes he strings stuff together.
    I have always kind of thought that myself, but looking at how history has unfolded the past few years, it seems like Alex has been proven correct on most everything he has been saying. And that's the scary part. I really wish I could still believe that he was only fearmongering. The new "Obama Deception" movie is incredible, too. He does get upset and yell on the radio sometimes, but I can't really blame him at this point. Maybe we ALL should be yelling.

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    Well...whoever gets their ass beat is going to get very, very rich in the lawsuit...

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    The Posse Comitatus Act only applies to FEDERAL troops or National Guard units that have been federalized. As I understand Virginia law, (Not NY law) only the Governor can declare Martial Law.
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    Well, that would be a switch. Usually we see martial law when the citizens get out of hand. Here we see martial law when the government gets out of hand.

    Disgusting. Both the antecedant and the resultant proposal.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

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    Citizen wrote:
    Well, that would be a switch. Usually we see martial law when the citizens get out of hand. Here we see martial law when the government gets out of hand.

    Disgusting. Both the antecedant and the resultant proposal.
    First thing I thought is that mayor has balls.

    Under the stated circumstances I wouldn't criticize the mayor or governor for doing exactly that, dissolving the police dept and instituting martial law for Nat'l Guard to assume municipal law enforcement duties... for an interim period with a defined term. I'd also expect to see MANY indictments of criminal police pretenders. Rightfully, heads should roll.

    To the Framers this would be what the Militia would/could be called upon to do for the welfare of the community, the People.

    On the flip side... its a dangerous precedent for the early 21st century.

    Dutch

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    spiritof76 wrote:
    YllwFvr wrote:
    But then again you need to take what you hear from Mr. Jones with a grain of salt. He's a fear monger. I don't mean he's always wrong but sometimes he strings stuff together.
    I have always kind of thought that myself, but looking at how history has unfolded the past few years, it seems like Alex has been proven correct on most everything he has been saying. And that's the scary part. I really wish I could still believe that he was only fearmongering. The new "Obama Deception" movie is incredible, too. He does get upset and yell on the radio sometimes, but I can't really blame him at this point. Maybe we ALL should be yelling.
    He IS a fear monger. He, in my opinion, is using a similar strategy to the one many politicians use. Scare the living hell out of people, and that way they'll do what you want. In his case, this means sending him and his sponsors money.

    Many of the things he says are true, but he is very good at blowing things out of proportion, and often falsely making people think their very lives are in imminent danger. He is nuts, and I think he knows it. But he likes it, because it makes him money.

    I wish someone who was more well rounded, honest, and calm than him had his following, but I suppose I'm glad he does what he does, because he is very good at getting people active.
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    Citizen wrote:
    Well, that would be a switch. Usually we see martial law when the citizens get out of hand. Here we see martial law when the government gets out of hand.

    Disgusting. Both the antecedant and the resultant proposal.
    Yeah. Using documents such as the Declaration Of Independence for guidance, I think the police becoming totally out of hand is the time for the people to take control back. But as the rule goes, the people in this city deserve it if they will allow it.
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    Dutch51 wrote:
    Citizen wrote:
    Well, that would be a switch. Usually we see martial law when the citizens get out of hand. Here we see martial law when the government gets out of hand.

    Disgusting. Both the antecedant and the resultant proposal.
    First thing I thought is that mayor has balls.

    Under the stated circumstances I wouldn't criticize the mayor or governor for doing exactly that, dissolving the police dept and instituting martial law for Nat'l Guard to assume municipal law enforcement duties... for an interim period with a defined term. I'd also expect to see MANY indictments of criminal police pretenders. Rightfully, heads should roll.

    To the Framers this would be what the Militia would/could be called upon to do for the welfare of the community, the People.

    On the flip side... its a dangerous precedent for the early 21st century.

    Dutch
    There are other options. He could import police from other areas to fill in gaps. Get retirees back in service with good offers. He could even begin a campaign to remind citizens of their "police" powers.

    In that I thunk all this up in 30 secs, I imagine there would be more options that someone familiar with these things could dream up.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Michigander wrote:...the people in this city deserve it if they will allow it.
    ^^ +1
    Much like the mess in DC...

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    they should feel sooo much safer with the military patrolling the city.... /sarcasm

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    spiritof76 wrote:

    Schenectady’s Corporation Counsel John Van Norden said, “If you abolish the police department you still have a need - not an obligation - but a need to police the community. You would need something in transition. Declaring martial law would be one way to bridge the gap.”
    This quote was my favorite part of the whole article. I wonder how many political jurisdictions have a law requiring law enforcement. I know in VA every one is required to have a fire department, but since the law is so old, not required to have EMS.

    Oh and I love the picture. Soldiers 'sweeping' up corruption. Priceless. Ought to work well in the ghetto.
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    Michigander wrote:
    He IS a fear monger. He, in my opinion, is using a similar strategy to the one many politicians use. Scare the living hell out of people, and that way they'll do what you want. In his case, this means sending him and his sponsors money.
    <digression>Not to get off topic talking about Alex, but I just want to go on record that I still disagree with this rather popular point of view. The guy puts all of his stuff out there for free and goes on air telling people to please burn as many copies as you can and give them away, because time is short and we have to raise awareness of what is going on in this country. That's not someone who's just out to make money. </digression>

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    “(1) So hinders the execution of the laws of that State, and of the United States within the State, that any part or class of its people is deprived of a right, privilege, immunity, or protection named in the Constitution and secured by law, and the constituted authorities of that State are unable, fail, or refuse to protect that right, privilege, or immunity, or to give that protection;



    Seems as though the police force currently in place may not be able to provide the citizens with the guaranteed right to life ,liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.. They need to get the AXE, Thats the only way to clean up a dirty police dept. you can't allow any of the bad seed to stay in place..

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    http://capitalnews9.com/content/top_...s/Default.aspx

    SCHENECTADY, N.Y. -- Schenectady Police Chief Mark Chaires said, "This is unprecedented - all these officers getting in trouble at the same time for all these different reasons.
    Five Schenectady police officers recently accused of everything from driving drunk to beating up a man are leading city officials to look at taking drastic action to fix a department tainted by the few who may have acted illegally, like Darren Lawrence and Michael Brown who are accused of driving while intoxicated.

    Chief Chaires said, "Those two officers, we're definitely going to seek termination, and we're not ruling it out with any of the officers who are out there.

    Police Chief Mark Chaires told us you basically have to fire yourself - essentially a million dollar fine in lost benefits over a lifetime.

    Still, Schenectady Mayor Brian Stratton said, "We believe there are five officers now who could face possible termination."

    But it's not just the threat of termination. Mayor Stratton told us he's looking at all options, including disbanding the police department - basically starting over.

    "It's something we're certainly looking into. I think the public has had it up to here," said the mayor.

    Currently, officials are reviewing the legal options and planning to present a full report in early April - options like a consolidated county-wide police force or bringing in the State Police.

    The mayor said there is another option - and that would be declaring martial law. The governor would have to declare it and then the National Guard would come in. The mayor said it's more for a transition to a new police force if that were to happen.

    He said, "It may be that as a stopgap measure, that you would need military forces - State Police, National Guard."

    Mayor Stratton said the temporary measure would last until the new police force took over.

    Schenectady's Corporation Counsel John Van Norden said, "If you abolish the police department you still have a need - not an obligation - but a need to police the community. You would need something in transition. Declaring martial law would be one way to bridge the gap."

    "It's a contrived scenario," said the mayor. "But it's not beyond the realm of possibilities if you go that particular route."

    Chief Chaires said, "When I think of martial law, I think of rioting. I think of Watts riots and things like that. I haven't seen anything that rises to that level. I was a little surprised to hear that."

    But whether the National Guard needs to be called in or not, we'll take a more-in-depth look on Thursday at the county-wide and State Police options, as officials try to deal with an unprecedented situation in unprecedented ways.

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    I can understand dissolving the PD to set up a "county sheriff department" that can do a better job... I wonder, though, how many cops leaving this dissolved department will obtain jobs in this new Sheriff's Department.

    Having the military works as law enforcement? It could be a good idea as a stop gap.

    Declaring martial law? F--- NO! Martial law is completely different. They're trying to sell Martial Law the same as having the National Guard work as LEOs.

    martial law
    n.
    1. Temporary rule by military authorities, imposed on a civilian population especially in time of war or when civil authority has broken down.
    2. The law imposed on an occupied territory by occupying military forces.
    martial law
    –noun
    1. The law temporarily imposed upon an area by state or national military forces when civil authority has broken down or during wartime military operations.
    2. The law imposed upon a defeated country or occupied territory by the military forces of the occupying power.
    Martial law
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    Having the military works as law enforcement? It could be a good idea as a stop gap.

    Declaring martial law? F--- NO! Martial law is completely different.
    Yes but the public doesn't know the difference. Today, if martial law were declared and people started seeing military troops enforcing the laws, there would be massive resistance.

    That's why they want to get the public acclimatized to seeing military troops working as domestic law enforcement under everyday non-martial-law circumstances. Make everyone think military doing police work is NORMAL. Then if martial law is declared, the public will already be USED TO seeing the troops all over the place. That's the insidious part of what is going on right now.

    There is NO LEGITIMATE REASON for ANY kind of military troops, federal, national guard or otherwise doing any kind of law enforcement work against civilians under normal circumstances. If there are a few bad cops here and there, fire them and hire new ones. We don't need God damned military forces enforcing anything in our American towns, no matter how polite and well-mannered they may behave ... at first.

    Civilian control of law enforcement at the local or county level, is critical if we are to maintain a free society. It's subject to all kinds of corruption, but at least there is a greater chance of bringing it under some semblance of control than if all orders are coming from a far higher authority such as the state itself, or federal government. "The price of freedom is eternal vigilance."

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    +1000

    That would have done Alex Jones proud too.

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    unreconstructed1 wrote:
    they should feel sooo much safer with the military patrolling the city.... /sarcasm
    Heck with the organized militia, use the common militia. Do what was done in Athens, Tennessee in 1946. That'll send a message.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Athens_(1946)

    http://www.jpfo.org/filegen-a-m/athens.htm


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    spiritof76 wrote:
    There is NO LEGITIMATE REASON for ANY kind of military troops, federal, national guard or otherwise doing any kind of law enforcement work against civilians under normal circumstances. If there are a few bad cops here and there, fire them and hire new ones. We don't need God damned military forces enforcing anything in our American towns, no matter how polite and well-mannered they may behave ... at first.
    I must agree with 76 here, military troops are not the answer. Law and order has not broken down in the subburbs of Albany. The buildings are not on fire, citizens are not in the streets carrying pitchforks, the lights are on, the water is running and the stores are open.

    Put the bad cops behind bars and the rest will get the memo fast enough.

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    Are any of those policemen national guardmen also? Would be funny that they
    show up as activated guards to replace themselves as police officers.




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