Oakland Police shooting...

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MudCamper wrote:

CaCop wrote:

To the people who keep PMing me asking me to forgive them for their immature members; You need to grow some balls and say something to them in a public forum. With Pullinshoot I had the same thing. You guys want to PM me and tell me how immature these guys are and apologize for their ignorance and immaturity...well I challenge you to forget about offending people and tell them yourself. On officer.com, we correct people who act like this, we don't PM the recipient of these children's idiotic rants asking for forgiveness and for people to ignore them. ImFromTheGovernmentAndImHereToHelp and Pullinshoot and a few of the others need to know that you all despise their immaturity. Quit asking me to forgive it in private...

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CaCop: You know, there is one person in this thread who's constantly name calling, and it's you. Others may also use emotionally charged arguments, but it's you who keeps throwing personal insults. From my perspective, you are a troll. I'm really getting sick of it, and you. Stop calling everyone else a child. It only makes you look like one.

Everyone else: This user (CaCop) has succeeded in dividing our ranks. He is not our ally. He is our enemy. He is the definition of an internet troll.

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I challenge you to take time to read everything I have posted. You will find that every time I have called names, and every time I have stooped down to the level of petty comments, it has been a direct result of a member of this site attacking me unprovoked.

I have repeatedly said that I support your cause, though I have been repeatedly attacked for no reason. In this thread I was attacked for my views on assault weapons and I NEVER EVEN SAID WHAT MY VIEWS WERE! I have been doing my own research on the issue before coming up with an opinion.

If you guys want peace and you want to help educate people on your beliefs, you have to do something about your members who are out of control. This ImFromTheGovernmentAndImHereToHelp has called me a pig, said that I deserve to die (everyone saw that before the mod deleted it), and he has slandered the names of all of the Police officers that died in Oakland.

I'm tired of defending myself against these attacks. I deal with enough knuckleheads every day on the street, and I was hoping to find some mature and stimulating conversation here.

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I am fairly certain after some research that ImFromTheGovernmentAndImHereToHelp is a troll originally known as JohnnyB who has done his best to sow discord and anti-LEO sentiment on the forum for months.

He has been banned yet again and let me make it clear ... You may post discussions about and disagreements with law enforcement all you want and you will never hear from me ... BUT, saying they deserve to die or calling them pigs will get you banned as well!

You have been warned. OpenCarry.org has a mission and that mission does not include having us marginalized as an anti-government or anti-law enforcement site.

What we do want is to work with law enforcement to insure that they are obeying the letter and the intent of the law in the states where open carry is legal and if they are not, then we want to use the courts to seek redress of our grievances. In those states where open carry is not currently legal, we want to work with the legislatures to correct that. These are our goals and if you do not agree with them, then this community is not for you.

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jpierce wrote:

I am fairly certain after some research that ImFromTheGovernmentAndImHereToHelp is a troll originally known as JohnnyB who has done his best to sow discord and anti-LEO sentiment on the forum for months.

He has been banned yet again and let me make it clear ... You may post discussions about and disagreements with law enforcement all you want and you will never hear from me ... BUT, saying they deserve to die or calling them pigs will get you banned as well!

You have been warned. OpenCarry.org has a mission and that mission does not include having us marginalized as an anti-government or anti-law enforcement site.

What we do want is to work with law enforcement to insure that they are obeying the letter and the intent of the law in the states where open carry is legal and if they are not, then we want to use the courts to seek redress of our grievances. In those states where open carry is not currently legal, we want to work with the legislatures to correct that. These are our goals and if you do not agree with them, then this community is not for you.

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Thank you John!

To all, don't ever be shy to challenge an outrageous poster or to passionately argue your position but realize thatsome of the time your being baited by a low post count troll (you know - don't feed the trolls - and don't take the bait CalCop). This is very much a moderation free/self moderation forum butDO bring up concerns with John when the positions of some "members" (I use that term loosely for IFTGAHTH), harm our honorable goals.

Also realize then when LE do join the forum, especially from freedom challenged states, you really need to use persuasion (and case law etc...)to convince the poster who may have a different view. Even if you/we can't convince that individual on the merits realize that there are hundredsif notthousandsof non-members who can be swayed or turned off by your style of communication. Wemust bein the communication business first and last if we want to preserve peacefully the freedoms of all Americans. And I do!

(PnS25[yes pullnshoot25 is toooooo long to type out]and CalCop need to go have a beer together and bury the hatchet - please take the high road brothers )

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I walk away from the forum for 30 hrs and look at what I miss.

I'm with Cato on this.

N8: Stop chasing CaCop around the forum stalling the learning process

CaCop: Stop calling people names, thus feeding the trolls. If you must respond, just clarify/deny/confirm the accusations and move on.

Both of you: Meet each other and get to know one another!

Everyone else: Don't let this tragedy be used as a soapbox for those that oppose our civil rights. Tear them to pieces for doing so or, if you must, counter with the fact that the current laws are ignored by the very people these laws are supposed to keep the guns away from.

As my state flag says: "United We Stand Divided We Fall"

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can we please put this post back on topic?

I had a long talk with my dad, who is an LEO, about what happened in Oakland. We came to the conclusion that these officers knew the risks involved in their job. It was a tragic, horrific, and eye opening event. These officers died to protect us. They fell in the line of duty and there is nothing more honorable that they could have done. My heart goes out to their families. I hope that I, or any other LEO or their families will never have to deal with what these families are going through.

The reason it is an eye opening event is that one of the most liberal of liberals stated that there is something wrong with the way they run the CA government. He stated that there is something wrong with our Dept. of Corrections and that it needs to be fixed. Not one word about more gun control, which is one of the first thing the liberals jump to. They understand he had illegally obtained and illegal weapon. That is a start.

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fox689 wrote:

I walk away from the forum for 30 hrs and look at what I miss.

I'm with Cato on this.

N8: Stop chasing CaCop around the forum stalling the learning process

CaCop: Stop calling people names, thus feeding the trolls. If you must respond, just clarify/deny/confirm the accusations and move on.

Both of you: Meet each other and get to know one another!

Everyone else: Don't let this tragedy be used as a soapbox for those that oppose our civil rights. Tear them to pieces for doing so or, if you must, counter with the fact that the current laws are ignored by the very people these laws are supposed to keep the guns away from.

As my state flag says: "United We Stand Divided We Fall"

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Yeah, because I have nothing else better to do than constantly look for CaCop. I read the forums just like anyone else, it is not my fault I find CaCop at random.

Stalling the learning process (at least to me) means that I am feeding him bad information. Can anyone verify that I am feeding bad information?

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fighting_for_freedom wrote:

ImFromTheGovernmentAndImHereToHelp wrote:

cato and cacop will enforce the ban when it comes though. true patriots!

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I can't speak for Cato, but I personally would like to believe that if a ban were passed on my weapons, he would choose to uphold the Constitution and defend our rights by NOT attempting to take them away. And, you @$$, Cato is a much-respected member here. Back the hell off.

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WTF? Cato is a cop? I had no freaking idea! I thought Cato was a normal citizen like the rest of us! WOW! I honestly never would have known had someone not told me!

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CaCop wrote:

I challenge you to take time to read everything I have posted. You will find that every time I have called names, and every time I have stooped down to the level of petty comments, it has been a direct result of a member of this site attacking me unprovoked.

I have repeatedly said that I support your cause, though I have been repeatedly attacked for no reason. In this thread I was attacked for my views on assault weapons and I NEVER EVEN SAID WHAT MY VIEWS WERE! I have been doing my own research on the issue before coming up with an opinion.

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You have, however, admitted that you'd enforce laws that you'd know to be completely unconstitutional, and thus unenforcable. That's pretty awful, and on a 2nd amendment oriented website, it's sure to offend a fair number of people. Not that I'm excusing or endorsing some of the more outrageous things that have been directed towards you. Just saying that your coming here and telling people that you'd support (and following instructions to disarm the public is supporting it by action) the pissing-on of their rights and expecting everyone to remain civil is asking a bit much.

You do have a choice, though you've denied that you do. That choice is "no, this is too much, here's my resignation". If the paycheck is worth more to you than protecting the rights of the citizens you're sworn to serve and protect, then that's your own choice. But it is still a choice. Police experience and a bit of college can land you in a pretty good paying job as a manager of a security company, a security consultant, bodyguard (might want a bit of extra training for that, but you'd get in the door), or a plethora of other related jobs, so the options are there, you wouldn't have to start over from square one in a totally unrelated field.

Edit: Just a refresher on the things I mentioned you saying, to prevent confusion or claims that I'm attributing things to you that you didn't say.

CaCop wrote:

ImFromTheGovernmentAndImHereToHelp wrote:

is this the same reasoning you will use when kalifornia bans all guns an you enforce it.

shill

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Yes

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and

CaCop wrote:

Oh well, I don't need your respect. I choose to enforce the laws that I HAVE TO enforce. You act as if I can tell my Chief, "sorry Sir, I don't think that law is constitutional, thus I will refrain from enforcing it."

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Sorry sir, that law is clearly unconstitutional, and it's unethical to enforce "laws" that are,thus I refuse to enforce it. Here's my badge, have a nice day.

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pullnshoot25 wrote:

fighting_for_freedom wrote:

ImFromTheGovernmentAndImHereToHelp wrote:

cato and cacop will enforce the ban when it comes though. true patriots!

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I can't speak for Cato, but I personally would like to believe that if a ban were passed on my weapons, he would choose to uphold the Constitution and defend our rights by NOT attempting to take them away. And, you @$$, Cato is a much-respected member here. Back the hell off.

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WTF? Cato is a cop? I had no freaking idea! I thought Cato was a normal citizen like the rest of us! WOW! I honestly never would have known had someone not told me!

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I quite seriously can't decide if you're being facetious or serious....

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Bob: did you check out the forums at opencarry.com?

Me: Yeah I did. I learned alot and I'm glad that I am more educated on what they are trying to accomplish.

Bob: Awesome! Did they treat you good?

Me: For the most part. A few immature people succeeded in drawing me down to their level. They refused to acknowledge that some people have views that differ from themselves. For the most part It was a positive experience.

Bob: So, what is next for you.

Me: Oh nothing much, just going to quit my job because if I ever run across someone who is violating gun laws it would be unethical to arrest them.

Bob: WHAT?

Me: Yeah, it's cool though. My wife and kids having food and a roof over their head isn't THAT important. Right?



This was an actual conversation I had with my buddy who told me to check out this site a couple weeks ago. He is a deputy DA/ gun enthusiast...(his real name is not Bob)

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Mr. CaCop.... I don't know who I speak for, but at least myself, when I say this.

We're not asking you not to enforce current laws. They can be legislated, it just takes time. Until then, we'll abide by the damn things.

What we are asking for, is if it ever came down to it, and the government said 'NO GUNS', is for you to take a stand. Because if the people ever lose their guns then the people lose their rights... and things just progress rapidly downhill from there.

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Of course I would stand up for what is right. I will help in any way I can to make sure that the scenario you presented never happens. I highly doubt it ever would, but I would fight against it if it did (short of blatant insubordination). On the flip side, what I am trying to get across is that it is unreasonable to expect any Police officer with a family to support, to be willing to go to such an extreme as resigning. People can talk all they want about how sincere and committed to the cause they are. But when it comes down to it, fighting over the right to own a gun is nowhere near as important as a man taking care of his family.

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fighting_for_freedom wrote:

Mr. CaCop.... I don't know who I speak for, but at least myself, when I say this.

We're not asking you not to enforce current laws. They can be legislated, it just takes time. Until then, we'll abide by the damn things.

What we are asking for, is if it ever came down to it, and the government said 'NO GUNS', is for you to take a stand. Because if the people ever lose their guns then the people lose their rights... and things just progress rapidly downhill from there.

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I think you're expecting CaCop to hit a moving target here. The line between "Constitutional" and "Unconstitutional" laws is a wide gray line that everyone picks a spot to camp out on.
The arbiter of this is the Supreme Court and we just came within one vote of declaring the 2nd amendment a collective right. So, it would seem that we are miles away from consensus.
I can't imagine the anarchy if every LEO were to pick their own spot on that wide gray line and enforce "laws" based upon their own opinion of constitutionality.

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fighting_for_freedom wrote:

pullnshoot25 wrote:

fighting_for_freedom wrote:

ImFromTheGovernmentAndImHereToHelp wrote:

cato and cacop will enforce the ban when it comes though. true patriots!

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I can't speak for Cato, but I personally would like to believe that if a ban were passed on my weapons, he would choose to uphold the Constitution and defend our rights by NOT attempting to take them away. And, you @$$, Cato is a much-respected member here. Back the hell off.

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WTF? Cato is a cop? I had no freaking idea! I thought Cato was a normal citizen like the rest of us! WOW! I honestly never would have known had someone not told me!

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I quite seriously can't decide if you're being facetious or serious....

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I seriously had no clue!

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I think the big problem with enforceing illegal laws respecting 2A is a very simple one.

If you write a book, and get arrested for it, you can fight to keep selling it.
Even if you loose you are not banned from writing another book.
But with 2A if you are railroaded with a stupid illegal law, you loose all your 2A
rights, not just the one gun you had when arrested. Heck you can loose them
for any type of crime even if it has nothing to do with a firearm.
Since the repercussions are so severe the state should have to show a major
reason for any type of law that even comes close to stripping away out liberties.

I did not see the paragraph about CA having the most liberal lockup system
I've ever heard of. Lop of a persons hands, and you get out on parole after a couple of years.
38 minutes for DUI / drugs. You have a major problem with your political morons.
The danger is from the state parole system that will not adhear to there own
mandates, and don't even enforce the rules they give the parolee's.

I feel sorry for the officers, but I also feel sorry for the people who were left to rot
and fend for themselves when rodney king verdict was announced.
To disarm the populace and then refuse to even make an attempt to protect
them is itself criminal.

If you want to ban assault weapons, lets give banning the parole system first
and see if keeping dangerous criminals in a prison works better. If they start
shooting the guards while locked up then we can try an assault ban on prisoners.
If this doesn't work either, then we can try one for a 1000 ft around prisons.
If they still keep shooting people then we can go city, county, and state.
Lets see how intrusive we need a law to be to make it work not shred
the contitutions for something that can be rectified with a simple fix that
doesn't affect everyone who is not killing people, and just don't want to be
killed themselves.

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CaCop wrote:

If you guys want peace and you want to help educate people on your beliefs, you have to do something about your members who are out of control. This ImFromTheGovernmentAndImHereToHelp has called me a pig, said that I deserve to die (everyone saw that before the mod deleted it), and he has slandered the names of all of the Police officers that died in Oakland.

I'm tired of defending myself against these attacks. I deal with enough knuckleheads every day on the street, and I was hoping to find some mature and stimulating conversation here.

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No doubt, ImFromTheGovernment was a troll. But By stooping to his level and calling members here names, you also become a troll. Just don't do it. I admit, it ain't easy. Some of your comments pissed me off so much (like insulting pullnshoot25, who IMO is one of our truely great ambassadors) that I also fell down to that level.

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pullnshoot25 wrote:

fighting_for_freedom wrote:

ImFromTheGovernmentAndImHereToHelp wrote:

cato and cacop will enforce the ban when it comes though. true patriots!

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I can't speak for Cato, but I personally would like to believe that if a ban were passed on my weapons, he would choose to uphold the Constitution and defend our rights by NOT attempting to take them away. And, you @$$, Cato is a much-respected member here. Back the hell off.

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WTF? Cato is a cop? I had no freaking idea! I thought Cato was a normal citizen like the rest of us! WOW! I honestly never would have known had someone not told me!

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Cato is a normal citizen like the rest of us. He just happens to be a normal citizen who works as a police officer.

We need more normal citizens like Cato working as police officers.

We also need fewer abnormal authoritarian powertrippers working as police officers.

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Well I don't mind leo on the board. I myself would love answers to some
simple questions.

1. How come he didn't have his licence and tag revolked with his parole?
If he had to walk he couldn't hide the gun as easy.

2. If it wasn't his car, then when are we going to hear about the owner
who helped him evade arrest by loaning the car to the fleeing felon?

3. Who's gun was it? All assault weapons are registered so it should take all
of 30 minutes to look up the registered owner, and ask him what happened.

OMG that one is old federal law so I guess it doesn't apply in kalifonia, they need
new federal gun laws to stop this sort of thing.:banghead::banghead::banghead:

I will support any new law that targets the person who filed off the SN so well
the federal registration couldn't be determined. Oops isn't that also a federal gun law?

I stand corrected, we need federal gun laws more than ever.:cuss::cuss::cuss::cuss:

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SlackwareRobert wrote:

Well I don't mind leo on the board. I myself would love answers to some
simple questions.

1. How come he didn't have his licence and tag revolked with his parole?
If he had to walk he couldn't hide the gun as easy.

2. If it wasn't his car, then when are we going to hear about the owner
who helped him evade arrest by loaning the car to the fleeing felon?

3. Who's gun was it? All assault weapons are registered so it should take all
of 30 minutes to look up the registered owner, and ask him what happened.

OMG that one is old federal law so I guess it doesn't apply in kalifonia, they need
new federal gun laws to stop this sort of thing.:banghead::banghead::banghead:

I will support any new law that targets the person who filed off the SN so well
the federal registration couldn't be determined. Oops isn't that also a federal gun law?

I stand corrected, we need federal gun laws more than ever.:cuss::cuss::cuss::cuss:

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1. How come he didn't have his licence and tag revolked with his parole?
If he had to walk he couldn't hide the gun as easy.

They would have had to cut off his arms and legs for that to be effective as he would have simply stolen someone elses car.

2. If it wasn't his car, then when are we going to hear about the owner
who helped him evade arrest by loaning the car to the fleeing felon?

See answer above. Maybe a stolen car, not a loaner.

3. Who's gun was it? All assault weapons are registered so it should take all
of 30 minutes to look up the registered owner, and ask him what happened.

Maybe a gun that was purchased legally and then stolen and sold from one criminal to the next. Gun Laws don't work because Criminals don't obey the law.

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Well then lets look at #4- Why would they just walk up to a stolen car
with a wanted felon in it?


But these are federal gun laws, this is what they say is needed to stop the criminals.
Why haven't they worked yet? Hey, I know, we need more feds to make the arrests,
yea thats it, more federal laws, and more federal employees now that would solve the problem.

The simple solution to the Kalifornia gun laws is this.....
Give it back to Mexico. Then the guns will be illegal. Then when mexico goes
bankrupt paying for the corrupt system in the new land mass, we buy it back cheap
and leave it as a territory till they learn to behave and abide by the constitution.

Would also deport through attrition a large part of the illegal aliens. The court cases
filed in arizona claiming they were depororted when mexico took over would be
a riot.:shock: