Where Is The NRA?

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RugerMan wrote:

Again, I don't worship the NRA, and I am disappointed in it's apparent lack of interest in Wisconsin. But, Wisconsin's citizens at large have showed a lack of interest in the RTKBA. We can't put our current situation on them.

Incidentally, I received the following email from the NRA today:

There is a story in the GB Press Gazette about the matter as well, and the NRA apparently commented on it. But the NRA is only as good as it's members in an area, and it relies on our grassroots response heavily. That is something that we, as a state, seem to be lacking.

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The same alerts are put out by the WGO and we all know that they not looking out for us but just want our money.

One of the biggest legitimate beefs with the NRA is that when they are asked for help, there is no response.. except for 10 more mailings looking for money..

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http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_topic.php?id=23119&forum_id=57&jump_to=387208#p387208

Doug Huffman wrote Wed Mar 18th, 2009 05:39:

Wisconsin State Assembly Leader Tom Nelson (D - 5 Outagamie, Brown, Shawano) came to the Island with Gary Bies (R - 1 Door, Kewaunee) to tout the Democrat tax and spend budget.

I was able to argue against DoJ increasing the Brady Check fee-tax, arguing that the feds doing it for free is better than further burdening Wisconsin citizens.

The assembled citizens were primarily interested in relief from the technical college Obamination.

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fepowered wrote:

RugerMan wrote:

Again, I don't worship the NRA, and I am disappointed in it's apparent lack of interest in Wisconsin. But, Wisconsin's citizens at large have showed a lack of interest in the RTKBA. We can't put our current situation on them.

Incidentally, I received the following email from the NRA today:

There is a story in the GB Press Gazette about the matter as well, and the NRA apparently commented on it. But the NRA is only as good as it's members in an area, and it relies on our grassroots response heavily. That is something that we, as a state, seem to be lacking.

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The same alerts are put out by the WGO and we all know that they not looking out for us but just want our money.

One of the biggest legitimate beefs with the NRA is that when they are asked for help, there is no response.. except for 10 more mailings looking for money..

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I've been laid off over a year now and I get phone calls from the NRA wanting to know if Mr LaPierre can count on me for a $2300 - $2500 contribution. :?

ETA: I am a life member

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I just got an email alert from the NRA about Gov. Doyle raising background check fees. I emailed them back and told them we have bigger fish to fry then background fees here in Wisconsin as we have citizens being arrested for legally carrying firearms. Where is the NRA in this? The NRA is MIA.

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I too am very disappointed in the lack of response to our situation here in the People's Republic of Wisconsin by the NRA. That said, if it wasn't for the NRA we would be lucky to be "allowed" to own a double barrel shotgun today anywhere in the country. Over the years they have proven that they are a very influential lobbying force. The thing to do now is lobby the NRA for help. If they hear from enough citizens of this state who are members they will respond. "Squeaky wheel gets the grease" applies here. No good whatever will come of NRA bashing on this forum.

NRA Life Member.

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The good that will come of bashing the NRA is that it shows that there are a number of us that are upset over their lack of attention to our Wisconsin gun rights. There is bravery in numbers. If we know that there are others with the same outrage perhaps we can write the NRA as a show of force and illicit some attention.

I meant to say ellicit some attention not illicit some attention. thanks Doug for pointing out the homophone.

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Do you imagine that the Emperors men, that have paid for their positions for life, will admit their error? This is how swindles work, the swindler puts the gullible dupe in a position untenable by an honest man but the gull is too vain to admit the swindle and his error.

This Emperor has no clothes. He has nothing on.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Emperor's_New_Clothes

An emperor of a prosperous city who cares more about clothes than military pursuits or entertainment hires two swindlers who promise him the finest suit of clothes from the most beautiful cloth. This cloth, they tell him, is invisible to anyone who was either stupid or unfit for his position. The Emperor cannot see the (non-existent) cloth, but pretends that he can for fear of appearing stupid; his ministers do the same. When the swindlers report that the suit is finished, they dress him in mime. The Emperor then goes on a procession through the capital showing off his new "clothes". During the course of the procession, a small child cries out, "But he has nothing on!" The crowd realizes the child is telling the truth. The Emperor, however, holds his head high and continues the procession.

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No good whatever will come of NRA bashing on this forum.

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No good will come of being an enabler either.

Any organization/business/group/whatever that wants to grow or sustain itself has, at its very core, the requisite obligation to satisfy and appeal to the needs of their customers/members/donors/etc.

Any entity that stops listening to their customers will fail. Sooner or later.

In the case of the NRA it may be a slow failure because of the 'brand loyalty' but over time, unless it addresses its shortcomings with respect to the desires of its membership, they will fail.

Much good will come of bashing the NRA. EVEN more good will come with continued and increasedbashing of the NRA. If we are just a fringe group who's values and beliefs differ so much from the 'rest' of the membership they will be just fine, but if the rest of the membershipholds similar beliefs as ourselves, the NRA will have no choice but, for their ownperpetuation, adapt to their customers. WE are the customers. Perhaps the NRA needs to remind themselves of the old patch/bumper sticker "I am the NRA" Or start printing new ones "I was the NRA"

I suggest every single person reading this forum would take the opportunity to use thebusiness-reply envelopes to write apersonal note to the NRAand mail it back"

I'm just going to take a big red marker and write on my membership renewal "Where were you for Open Carry in Wisconsin" and mail it without renewing.

Any subsequent direct mail will be returned in the same fashion.

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Wisconsin's citizens at large have showed a lack of interest in the RTKBA.

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If wisconsin citizens at large showed an interest in the RTKBA WE WOULDN'T NEED THE NRA.

Now first off... I think the support of RTKBA in wisconsin is very strong. So I disagree (respectfully of course) with your assessment. Looking at responses to polls and things, (example the journal sentinel comment/feedback question on the day of Brad's final hearing) I think support is overwhelming. In my day to day interactions talking with peolpe I know, do business with, workout with, socialize with, there is a great deal of interest.

Support is very strong. Organization of that support, not so much, but support is VERY strong for our rights AND open carry.

The last thing we need is the NRA to show up after we did all the legwork, slap a few headlines in their magazine and claim victory (sound familiar) and sell memberships.

Its precisely their critical mass and MONEY that could help us build support. You don't think money would have FLOWN in to help Brad if the NRA had made mention of it? Not even ask for donations but JUST REPORTED THE STORY!

Was that to much to ask? Not evan for a dime from the organization itself but just the f'ing courtesy of REPORTING IT! Would have cost them NOTHING!

**** the NRA

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Good idea Hugh, I received a mailing yesterday from the NRA and will send it back with above mentioned note, it might be a start. Anybody got a better idea?

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borrowed time wrote:

Anybody got a better idea?

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Sure. Eschew false and failed 'leadership'.

Trust and verify with discrimination. Believe nothing your read or hear without verifying it yourself unless it fits your preexisting worldview.

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Doug Huffman wrote:

Do you imagine that the Emperors men, that have paid for their positions for life, will admit their error? This is how swindles work, the swindler puts the gullible dupe in a position untenable by an honest man but the gull is too vain to admit the swindle and his error.

This Emperor has no clothes. He has nothing on.

ProShooter wrote: [/b]

crazydude6030 wrote:

Just saw this, thought it might be worth posting...

http://www.nrahq.org/nrabonus/

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I saw that on another forum and I question whether or not it is legit.

As a recruiter, I get info from the NRA all the time and I've never heard of a free membership. I'd be suspicious of that until some real info comes out.

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hugh jarmis wrote:

Wisconsin's citizens at large have showed a lack of interest in the RTKBA.

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If Wisconsin citizens at large showed an interest in the RTKBA WE WOULDN'T NEED THE NRA.

Now first off... I think the support of RTKBA in Wisconsin is very strong. So I disagree (respectfully of course) with your assessment. Looking at responses to polls and things, (example the journal sentinel comment/feedback question on the day of Brad's final hearing) I think support is overwhelming. In my day to day interactions talking with peolpe I know, do business with, workout with, socialize with, there is a great deal of interest.

Support is very strong. Organization of that support, not so much, but support is VERY strong for our rights AND open carry.

The last thing we need is the NRA to show up after we did all the legwork, slap a few headlines in their magazine and claim victory (sound familiar) and sell memberships.

Its precisely their critical mass and MONEY that could help us build support. You don't think money would have FLOWN in to help Brad if the NRA had made mention of it? Not even ask for donations but JUST REPORTED THE STORY!

Was that to much to ask? Not evan for a dime from the organization itself but just the f'ing courtesy of REPORTING IT! Would have cost them NOTHING!

@#$% the NRA

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My $0.02 worth.

First, if you asked 50 people what would you do if you were in Perkins eating and a guy walked in carrying a holstered firearm?

49 would answer, call the police!

So "support of RTKBA in Wisconsin is very strong," I disagree. The right to HUNT is very strong, beyond that, not so much.

Second, as I understand it from listening to Krause on the Radio, the NRA DID recommend an attorney, and the attorney offered him a 10% discount, so they could say, "we provided 10% of the legal fee(s)." According to Krause, at the last minute, this ~NRA~ attorney jacked the price up so high that Krause was basically left to fend for himself.

Third, the NRA or WI-Force (WRPA) simply placing information about Krause and the county resolutions in their mailings would have gone a long way. As I understand it, WI-Force (WRPA) denied such a request.

Same goes for the WGO.

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First, if you asked 50 people what would you do if you were in Perkins eating and a guy walked in carrying a holstered firearm?

49 would answer, call the police!

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Well we can disagree all we want on here and it won't answer the question. But if you read the hundreds of responses to the journal sentinel opinion poll (granted, its not about walking in a perkins, but planting trees in your yard, even just teh wisconsin responses are strongly supportive of the right.

http://www.jsonline.com/forums/39730232.html

Regardless, I stand by my original comment. If everyone supported the RTKBA and open carry as a subset of that we wouldn't need the NRA. To suggest that we need to build support FIRST and then call the NRA to come revel in the calm waters we already created is preposterous.

Shouldn't they be on the front-line using their power and lobbying influence to blaze a trail? Not be on the back-end coming through on a white horse claiming victory once someone else did the dirty work?

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Support The 2nd wrote:

First, if you asked 50 people what would you do if you were in Perkins eating and a guy walked in carrying a holstered firearm?

49 would answer, call the police!

So "support of RTKBA in Wisconsin is very strong," I disagree. The right to HUNT is very strong, beyond that, not so much.

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49 out of 50 would not even notice.

More to the issue, the RTKBA amendment to the state constitution was passed by a significant majority of voters. I can't find the exact numbers at the moment, but I believe it was approximately 78%* that voted in favor of it.

*Edit-- I found one source that says 74%, good enough.

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Doug Huffman wrote:

borrowed time wrote:

Anybody got a better idea?

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Sure. Eschew false and failed 'leadership'.

Trust and verify with discrimination. Believe nothing your read or hear without verifying it yourself unless it fits your preexisting worldview.

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Darn it Doug, I hate it when I got to get out the dictionary when you reply to me. Rather than "shunning" false and failed leadership, "chewing" them out might shame them publicly. I will make a note to the NRA mag and see if it gets published.

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Hugh:

You are exactly right. The people of Wisconsin do have a high interest in their right to keep and bear arms. During the November election of 1998 75% of the voters that went to the polls voted to add amendment Article I section 25 to the state constitution. "The people have the right to keep and bear arms for security, defense, hunting, recreation or any other lawful purpose". (Please note which two activities are listed first). The 75% voter approval is the highest voter approval of any constitutional amendment or statute in Wisconsin history. People interest in RKBA is not a problem. Getting a powerful enough lobby to speak with one voice is the problem. Every gun right group in the state wants to "go it alone". Instead of working together they would rather spend energy to "bad mouth" each other. I've said it a few times on this forum. I'll say it again. "A bundle of sticks is stronger than a single stick". I don't know all the "leaders" of the various gun right groups, some are easily detected, others are more obscure, but until they can get their heads together and hold a "summit" and develop a unified position, a central purpose and a unified voice that can exhibit a show of force, any "open carry" movement in Wisconsin will fail. (my opinion) Not because there is lack of interest in RKBA but because of fragmentation.

I also would like to comment concerning open carry vs concealed carry. It is obvious by some posts on this forum that some members equate gun rights to concealed carry. It is obvious the NRA does. Governor Doyle gets "bad mouthed" because of his supposed position regarding concealed carry. Even though he gets characterised as a gun control advocate because of it,he did us true gun right advocates the biggest favor possible when he vetoed the Personal Protection Act SB214. It's very possible that if SB214 was approved by Doyle that the final version entered into the statutes would have replaced our already existant open carry rights with concealed carry being the only lawful way to provide personal protection. That would have been disasterous.

I won't go into things like constitutional authority, training, fees, certification and such. I will only address prohibited places of carry.

Locations where open carry not allowed by current statutes:

1. Vehicles

2. School zones of schools that teach grades 1 through 12.

3. Places that sell "on-sale" alcohol.

4. Any building owned or leased by a goverment agency.

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Places that SB214 would have made "off-limits" to concealed carry.

1. Buildings used for religious worship.

2. Hospitals.

3. Any health care facility.

4. Buildings used for domestic violence protection.

5. Childcare facilities.

6. Courthouses.

7. Public or private universities.

8. Colleges.

9. Technical schools.

10. Kindergarten classrooms.

11. Any place athletic events take place.

12. School Zones.

13. Any place a prohibition sign is posted.

14. Police station.

15.Sheriff's offices.

16. State patrol stations.

17. Correctional facilities.

18. School administration buildings.

19. Airports.

20. Taverns.

And my favorite of all:

21. Anywhere carry is declared a nuisance.

These were all concessions made in order to win legislative approval of SB214. I have documentation to support that claim. You can bet that with the Democratic controlled legislature that any future personal protection plan will be even more restrictive. That is why we must be ever vigilant and visible.

As you can see, concealed carry does not give us gun rights it takes them away, yet many equate concealed carry as being the ultimate expession of gun rights. That's why, in my opinion, the NRA doesn't care to get involved in open carry, because it detracts from that philosophy. Don't get me wrong. I am not opposed to concealed carry, I myself like the out of sight out of mind aspect, however, I can only support it as a personally elected option to open carry. No way will I support if in any way it compromises our existant open carry right.

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borrowed time wrote:

Doug Huffman wrote:

borrowed time wrote:

Anybody got a better idea?

Click to expand...

Sure. Eschew false and failed 'leadership'.

Trust and verify with discrimination. Believe nothing your read or hear without verifying it yourself unless it fits your preexisting worldview.

Click to expand...

Darn it Doug, I hate it when I got to get out the dictionary when you reply to me. Rather than "shunning" false and failed leadership, "chewing" them out might shame them publicly. I will make a note to the NRA mag and see if it gets published.

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Thank you for caring that much. Others do not.

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Got an alert from the NRA that Spencer Coggs and Leon Young introduced a proposal for micro-stamping semi-auto pistols before resale. We know this technology is B.S. but it shows who your real enemies are, regardless of what you think of the NRA.



Grass roots organization, if you want open carry to succeed, get rid of these clowns that introduce legislation like this one at a time. They don't give a hoot about your guns and rights.

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