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Hogle Zoo - Forced to leave or conceal

jaredbelch

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Joined
Aug 8, 2007
Messages
545
Location
Cottonwood Heights, Utah, USA
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Hogle Zoo claims it's private property - Uses Salt Lake PD to force me to leave or conceal.

I went to the zoo yesterday with my family and as usual was open carrying. I was approached twice, once by zoo security and once by 3 Salt Lake City Police Officers and one zoo manager.

Here's what happened.

Zoo Security (Brett): How's it going man
me: how are you
Brett:uh people get nervous when they see a gun in the zoo
me: ok
Brett:can I see some Identification or reason you are carrying a gun in the zoo
Me: it's legal here. The state of Utah you don't need to have ID
Brett:eek:k so you're not with a ... a police department or
Me: No sir
Brett: you're just walking around with a gun on you?
me:Yep just an armed citizen
Brett:It makes people nervous at the zoo you know with the animals, so we had a report and I thought I'd come talk to you
Me:Yeah, cool, I appreciate you talking to me
Brett:You don't want to put it away to where people can't see it?
Me:I can't hide it with these clothes, it's on an outside waistband holster and won't hide. If I lift my arms it pops right out. But I usually carry it open anyway - (I got pretty flustered here and wasn't sure what to say)
Brett:alrighty
me:I appreciate you checking up on me though
Brett:eek:k (starts leaving)
me:what was your name?
Brett:Brett
me: Brett? - Jared - thanks


Salt Lake City Police Officer Carling:How's your day at the zoo today?
Me:Good how are you?
Carling:Is your family inside?
me: uh yeah
Carling:Ok - We're here because I'm sure your aware with the issue of security and your open carry. And they have concern because it's brought up some alarm with other visitors here at the zoo.
me: ok
Carling:few options here, they would like it I guess to give you the option of concealing it, or at least pulling your shirt over it so it's not visible or taking it to your car or just leaving
Me: ok um isn't the zoo owned by the city?
Carling:It's private
Me: It is private?
2nd officer -Hunter (sgt):No
Carling:it's private that's recieving funds they just get grants but it's owned by the
Hunter: (Cuts in) It's a grey area .... that's why we're not requiring it, but we're trying to meet you half way we just request that you just cover it up.
Me: ok, so .. and if I don't?
Carling:well do you have a concealed carry permit?
Me: I do
Carling:you do, ok.
Me: So I'm trying to find out what the... if I don't then what happens?
Carling and Hunter: ...Nothing (laughing)
Me: Nothing, (laughing) ok
Hunter:But we are trying...
Me: I appreciate your concern, I do appreciate the concern
Hunter:look around, you have to understand the concern of everyone around you. I think you do have a right, and I appreciate the right...
Carling:I carry when I'm off duty
Me: It's protection, there's a deterrent factor, we all have that right.
Hunter:I understand we all have that right
Me: I think if the Zoo want's me to leave then they can ask me to leave. If not, I'd just like to go about my business.
Hunter:you could just take your shirt and cover it up.
Me: I could (sarcasm)
Hunter:isn't that a good compromise?
Me: If there is a legal requirement, then I believe it would be agood [compromise].
Carling:I guess the issue has been made and ... it's a grey area and we have options on both sides.
Me: what does that mean?
Carling: you have options where you can stay and enjoy but make that little exception because it is a private facility. but at the same time so it is kind of a quasi private public facility.
Hunter: they're here to ask you to leave (zoo manager? arrives)
Carling: or if those ... aren't met you have to leave.
Me:They've asked me to leave?
Carling: (uninteligible) yes
Me: ok that's what I asked you if I don't what are my options
Carling:I'm giving you those options
Me: so they are asking me to leave - the Zoo is asking me to leave or cover up?
Carling: right
Me:Great (I cover the gun with my shirt)
Carling: (to zoo manager) are you satisfied with that?
Zoo Manager Gunner:Yeah

Officer Carling- Jennifer Carling Police Officer
Officer Hunter?-(sgt)
Officer Benzon- Jared S Benzon Police Officer
Gunner (zoo manager)-


So I talked to Clark yesterday and he called to zoo to find out why they are saying they aren't owned by the City. They are going to get back with him on Monday.

So just a heads up if you plan on OC'ing at the zoo, they are not ok with it. Once we are sure it's definitely owned by the city, I'll be going back and anyone who wants to is welcome to come. We have to make sure they know that they can't bully people around and claim they don't fall under preemption.
 

Gray Peterson

Founder's Club Member - Moderator
Joined
May 12, 2006
Messages
2,236
Location
Lynnwood, Washington, USA
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Salt Lake County owns them.

Btw, interesting history:

1946

In November, “Blizzard,” the Zoo’s 8-yr-old polar bear, is shot. The culprit is never caught. The Zoo’s superintendent announces that hereafter, guns found on Zoo visitors will be confiscated and punitive measures will be taken against people who throw sticks or stones at the animals. (The bullet wound, between the bear’s eye and ear, is not fatal and the bear lives another five or six years.)
 

LovesHisXD45

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 3, 2008
Messages
580
Location
, Utah, USA
imported post

This is good stuff. I'll be anxiously awaiting the facts on this one. I plan on taking my kids to the zoo when the weather warms up, and I will be OC if preemption covers this case and they are, indeed, owned by a state entity. Thanks Jared.

Kevin
 

Kevin Jensen

State Researcher
Joined
Feb 23, 2007
Messages
2,313
Location
Santaquin, Utah, USA
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jaredbelch wrote:
Gray Peterson wrote:
Salt Lake County owns them.
When did the county buy them from the city? Do you have anything to show that?

From the Hogle Zoo's website. https://www.hoglezoo.org/about/zoo_history/


1982
Salt Lake County, rather than the City, agrees to help fund the operating expenses of the Zoo. The Utah Zoological Society recommits to providing revenues for management and capital improvements.
1983 - 1985
The last old cage-type exhibits, constructed in the 1930's, are demolished. The Zoo completes new exhibits for endangered snow leopards, primates, and great apes.
The Utah State Legislature recognizes the Zoo as a state revenue-enhancing attraction and commits an annual grant to the Zoo’s operating expenses. The Zoo becomes Utah’s Hogle Zoo.
2004
Salt Lake County residents face reauthorization of the Zoo, Arts, and Parks (ZAP) tax. Hogle Zoo, along with the ZAP reauthorization committee, hosts ZAP Appreciation Day at the zoo. The day is highlighted with performances, demonstrations, exhibits, and arts from various ZAP recipients. ZAP is overwhelmingly approved, receiving 71 percent of the vote.
 

jaredbelch

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Messages
545
Location
Cottonwood Heights, Utah, USA
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SGT Jensen wrote:
Also, according to the Salt lake Count Assessor, they are owned by Salt Lake City Corp, is public land, and 100% tax exempt.

http://www.assessor.slco.org/cfml/Query/detail.cfm?Parcel_id=16111510040000&link_id=70938
Yeah I looked that up too and came to the same conclusion. Interestingly, the zoo is split into two parcels, both currently owned by SLC. The second parcel is 16102760010000.

In case you can't see the data on the link above, go to http://www.assessor.slco.org/cfml/query/query2.cfm and enter the parcel number you want to search for and hit submit.

Here is a partial record of each parcel.

Parcel Record 16102760010000
Owner SALT LAKE CITY CORP. (TITLE BY Q.C.D.)
Address 2400 E 1100 S
Total Acreage 32.02
Eco. Unit Acres
Owner Occupied
Site Name
Building Permit
Tax Class Id 501 - SLC-CORP
Property Type 953 - GOV-BLD/LND
Tax District 13
Tax District Location SLCity/SL
% Exempt 100
Exempt Type Total
B of E
Residential Exemption
Detail Year 4
New Growth Year
New Growth Pct
New Growth Amount
Update Year 2007
Reinspection
Total Asscociated
MLS Number
TaxClass
1 OE- Owner Exemp


Parcel Record 16111510040000
Owner SALT LAKE CITY CORP
Address 2800 E 925 S
Total Acreage 14.04
Eco. Unit Acres
Owner Occupied
Site Name
Building Permit
Tax Class Id 501 - SLC-CORP
Property Type 951 - PUBLIC
Tax District 13
Tax District Location SLCity/SL
% Exempt 100
Exempt Type Total
B of E
Residential Exemption
Detail Year
New Growth Year 08
New Growth Pct 100
New Growth Amount
Update Year 2007
Reinspection
Total Asscociated
MLS Number
TaxClass
1 OE- Owner Exempt
 
G

Guest

Guest
imported post

Per the county assessor website, their ownership shows to "salt lake city corp" which means its owned by the city. Goverment, and public.

http://www.assessor.slco.org/cfml/Query/detail.cfm?Parcel_id=16102760010000&link_id=70391


http://www.assessor.slco.org/pubMore/detail.cfm (this one apparently doesnt work, go to the "detail" button on the above link and it will give you this info.)


Oh damnit, SGT beat me to it, guess thats what I get for not reading all the threads.....:banghead:
 

Kevin Jensen

State Researcher
Joined
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Messages
2,313
Location
Santaquin, Utah, USA
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thoughtpolice wrote:
Oh damnit, SGT beat me to it, guess thats what I get for not reading all the threads.
I'm surprised you went to look for the answer, instead of attacking Jared for trying to stand his ground.

This is a big step forward for you. You've made me proud! :cry: <--- (Tears of Joy!)
 
G

Guest

Guest
imported post

SGT Jensen wrote:
I'm surprised you went to look for the answer, instead of attacking Jared for trying to stand his ground.

This is a big step forward for you. You've made me proud! :cry: <--- (Tears of Joy!)
Hey, retard!!! Just because I think OCing is stupid alot of the time, it doesnt mean its ILLEGAL. IF the situation is as it was reported, I believe he has a right to make a complaint. I believe thecops werejust trying to appeasethe owner and the OCer. Sounded like a good compromise, cover up and we are all happy. BUT, if it is state owned, he shouldnt HAVE to. I agree. The cops should have said they would appreciate it if he did, but he was within his rights if he didnt. Sounds like the Zoo owner has a bug up his ass. Thats where the issue lies. Not with PD. So bite me. I still think youre retarded:)



EDIT, this is different from Walmart or One Man Diner or any other PRIVATELY owned facility, where I think if you are asked to cover up, you dont own the property so do it or GTFO. If this were the case, I would say quit @#$%in' bitchin' and get over it. Get it SGT?:shock:
 

Kevin Jensen

State Researcher
Joined
Feb 23, 2007
Messages
2,313
Location
Santaquin, Utah, USA
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thoughtpolice wrote:
Hey, retard!!! ... So bite me. I still think youre retarded:)
OK, now I am officially sad. :cry: <--- (SGT Jensen is crying like a little bitch.)


this is different from Walmart or One Man Band or any other PRIVATELY owned facility, where I think if you are asked to cover up, you dont own the property so do it or GTFO. If this were the case, I would say quit @#$%in' bitchin' and get over it. Get it SGT?:shock:
Couldn't agree more. See the Wal-Mart thread. Like I said there, I may not agree with a no OC policy, but private entities can do WTF they want. I won't lose sleep over it.
 
G

Guest

Guest
imported post

SGT Jensen wrote:
thoughtpolice wrote:
Hey, retard!!! ... So bite me. I still think youre retarded:)
OK, now I am officially sad. :cry: <--- (SGT Jensen is crying like a little bitch.)


this is different from Walmart or One Man Band or any other PRIVATELY owned facility, where I think if you are asked to cover up, you dont own the property so do it or GTFO. If this were the case, I would say quit @#$%in' bitchin' and get over it. Get it SGT?:shock:
Couldn't agree more. See the Wal-Mart thread. Like I said there, I may not agree with a no OC policy, but private entities can do WTF they want. I won't lose sleep over it.
So....I guess we are on the same page??? ... what the hell am I supposed to do now? If I cant argue or make fun of you...... Im bored:cuss:
 

Kevin Jensen

State Researcher
Joined
Feb 23, 2007
Messages
2,313
Location
Santaquin, Utah, USA
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thoughtpolice wrote:
So....I guess we are on the same page??? ... what the hell am I supposed to do now? If I cant argue or make fun of you...... Im bored:cuss:
Tell you what. Once I am home, if I am asked to leave a private entity due to open carry, I will kick and scream like a little bitch with a skinned knee. Deal?
 
G

Guest

Guest
imported post

SGT Jensen wrote:
Tell you what. Once I am home, if I am asked to leave a private entity due to open carry, I will kick and scream like a little bitch with a skinned knee. Deal?
Id hate to upset the status quo around here, thank you!:?
 

UTOC-45-44

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2007
Messages
2,579
Location
Morgan, Utah, USA
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Jared,

Did you call Mitch Vilos on this. He AND Shurtleff will have a Hayday with this one



TJ



jaredbelch wrote:
Hogle Zoo claims it's private property - Uses Salt Lake PD to force me to leave or conceal.

I went to the zoo yesterday with my family and as usual was open carrying. I was approached twice, once by zoo security and once by 3 Salt Lake City Police Officers and one zoo manager.

Here's what happened.

Zoo Security (Brett): How's it going man
me: how are you
Brett:uh people get nervous when they see a gun in the zoo
me: ok
Brett:can I see some Identification or reason you are carrying a gun in the zoo
Me: it's legal here. The state of Utah you don't need to have ID
Brett:eek:k so you're not with a ... a police department or
Me: No sir
Brett: you're just walking around with a gun on you?
me:Yep just an armed citizen
Brett:It makes people nervous at the zoo you know with the animals, so we had a report and I thought I'd come talk to you
Me:Yeah, cool, I appreciate you talking to me
Brett:You don't want to put it away to where people can't see it?
Me:I can't hide it with these clothes, it's on an outside waistband holster and won't hide. If I lift my arms it pops right out. But I usually carry it open anyway - (I got pretty flustered here and wasn't sure what to say)
Brett:alrighty
me:I appreciate you checking up on me though
Brett:eek:k (starts leaving)
me:what was your name?
Brett:Brett
me: Brett? - Jared - thanks


Salt Lake City Police Officer Carling:How's your day at the zoo today?
Me:Good how are you?
Carling:Is your family inside?
me: uh yeah
Carling:Ok - We're here because I'm sure your aware with the issue of security and your open carry. And they have concern because it's brought up some alarm with other visitors here at the zoo.
me: ok
Carling:few options here, they would like it I guess to give you the option of concealing it, or at least pulling your shirt over it so it's not visible or taking it to your car or just leaving
Me: ok um isn't the zoo owned by the city?
Carling:It's private
Me: It is private?
2nd officer -Hunter (sgt):No
Carling:it's private that's recieving funds they just get grants but it's owned by the
Hunter: (Cuts in) It's a grey area .... that's why we're not requiring it, but we're trying to meet you half way we just request that you just cover it up.
Me: ok, so .. and if I don't?
Carling:well do you have a concealed carry permit?
Me: I do
Carling:you do, ok.
Me: So I'm trying to find out what the... if I don't then what happens?
Carling and Hunter: ...Nothing (laughing)
Me: Nothing, (laughing) ok
Hunter:But we are trying...
Me: I appreciate your concern, I do appreciate the concern
Hunter:look around, you have to understand the concern of everyone around you. I think you do have a right, and I appreciate the right...
Carling:I carry when I'm off duty
Me: It's protection, there's a deterrent factor, we all have that right.
Hunter:I understand we all have that right
Me: I think if the Zoo want's me to leave then they can ask me to leave. If not, I'd just like to go about my business.
Hunter:you could just take your shirt and cover it up.
Me: I could (sarcasm)
Hunter:isn't that a good compromise?
Me: If there is a legal requirement, then I believe it would be agood [compromise].
Carling:I guess the issue has been made and ... it's a grey area and we have options on both sides.
Me: what does that mean?
Carling: you have options where you can stay and enjoy but make that little exception because it is a private facility. but at the same time so it is kind of a quasi private public facility.
Hunter: they're here to ask you to leave (zoo manager? arrives)
Carling: or if those ... aren't met you have to leave.
Me:They've asked me to leave?
Carling: (uninteligible) yes
Me: ok that's what I asked you if I don't what are my options
Carling:I'm giving you those options
Me: so they are asking me to leave - the Zoo is asking me to leave or cover up?
Carling: right
Me:Great (I cover the gun with my shirt)
Carling: (to zoo manager) are you satisfied with that?
Zoo Manager Gunner:Yeah

Officer Carling- Jennifer Carling Police Officer
Officer Hunter?-(sgt)
Officer Benzon- Jared S Benzon Police Officer
Gunner (zoo manager)-


So I talked to Clark yesterday and he called to zoo to find out why they are saying they aren't owned by the City. They are going to get back with him on Monday.

So just a heads up if you plan on OC'ing at the zoo, they are not ok with it. Once we are sure it's definitely owned by the city, I'll be going back and anyone who wants to is welcome to come. We have to make sure they know that they can't bully people around and claim they don't fall under preemption.
 

jaredbelch

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Aug 8, 2007
Messages
545
Location
Cottonwood Heights, Utah, USA
imported post

UTOC-45-44 wrote:
Jared,

Did you call Mitch Vilos on this. He AND Shurtleff will have a Hayday with this one



TJ

I emailed Mitch but he hasn't gotten back to me. I also talked to Clark and he's been working on it.

How have you been! Long time no see.
 
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