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Thread: Doing My Part

  1. #1
    Regular Member Birdhunter's Avatar
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    Hi All,

    Long time lurker, first time poster. While I haven't had open carried in Wisconsin (I have in the great state of South Dakota), I am trying to do what I can to foward the cause.I'm in Greenfield, and I have it on good authority that OC will get you a disorderly conduct ticket, no questions asked. Knowing this (unofficially, from an officer on the GPD), I decided to try and get an official reply. So far, two emails to the chief and no response. The emails are below. I think my next step is to contact my elected official and ask why the chief is not addressing my questions. It's election season, maybe they will be more responsive!

    Regards,

    Jason

    From: XXXXXXX
    Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 10:27 AM
    To: 'chief@gfpd.org'
    Subject: Open Carry

    Chief Springob,

    I am still waiting for a response to my questions below.

    Regards,

    XXXXXXX

    From: XXXXXXX
    Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 12:47 PM
    To: 'chief@gfpd.org'
    Subject: Open Carry

    Chief Springob,

    Given the recent coverage of the Brad Krause arrest for disorderly conduct in West Allis, I'm curious to know what thepolicy is for the Greenfield Police Department in this situation? Specifically,I'm on my property, planting a tree, with a visible, holstered firearm on my hip. A neighbor calls the police. What response would I expect from the Greenfield Police Department regardingthis call?

    Secondly, what is your policy on open carry in general, given the fact that the State Supreme court has stated that open carry is legal conduct (State of Wisconsin v Hamdan), there is no state law which forbids open carryand Article 1 Section 25 of the State Constitution guarantees my right to bear arms?

    Respectfully,

    XXXXXXX
    XXXXXXX
    Greenfield, WI






  2. #2
    Founder's Club Member bnhcomputing's Avatar
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    Birdhunter, welcome to the board and thank you for your effort. I would encourage you to contact the mayor (mayoral candidates) and the city attorney andif you wanted to submit the RTKBA resolution to your county board, that too would help educate.

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum57/17914.html


    Any and all correspondence with LEO helps to draw attention and educate, so again welcome and thank you for the effort.


  3. #3
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    Birdhunter,

    Good to see another Greenfielder here! I go to college in North Dakota, but I'm originally from Greenfield.

    My efforts to contact Springob have failed as well (both by email and phone, the latter of which I've left numerous messages with), however I never went a step further to contact any elected officials to demand an answer. It would be great if you would do that and push for an opinion from him.

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    I wish you the best.

    It is my training that recommends sending via the least convenient and most expensive method to ensure a functionary's attention.

    In order of rising effect; web mail, phone call, e-mail, fax, ordinary First Class letter, Certified return receipt signature required. The last being the most expensive and most effective.

  5. #5
    Regular Member Birdhunter's Avatar
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    Update:

    After two emails to the Chief, and one to the City Attorney (all of which went unanswered), I contacted my Alderperson asking why no one responds to my questions. The Chief told her to tell me that municipal code 10.01 is still being enforced (I've attached 10.01 below). I asked that the Chief contact me directly, because I still wanted clarification on my two specific questions. Before I talk with the Chief, isn't the open carry portion of 10.01 unenforceable due to state preemption code?

    Jason

    10.01 Weapons.


    (1)Discharging and carrying of firearms and guns prohibited. (Cr. #1412) No person, except a sheriff, constable, police officer or their deputies, shall fire or discharge any firearm, rifle, spring or air gun within the City or have any firearm, rifle, spring or air gun in his possession or under his control, unless it is unloaded and knocked down or enclosed within a carrying case or other suitable container, provided the City Council may permit the maintenance and use of supervised rifle or pistol ranges or shooting galleries. This subsection shall prohibit hunting within the City.

    (2)Carrying concealed weapons prohibited. (Cr. #1413) No person, except a police or peace officer, shall carry on his person any pistol, bowie knife, dirk, dagger, slingshot or any dangerous and concealed weapon.




  6. #6
    Founder's Club Member bnhcomputing's Avatar
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    Birdhunter wrote:
    Update:

    After two emails to the Chief, and one to the City Attorney (all of which went unanswered), I contacted my Alderperson asking why no one responds to my questions. The Chief told her to tell me that municipal code 10.01 is still being enforced (I've attached 10.01 below). I asked that the Chief contact me directly, because I still wanted clarification on my two specific questions. Before I talk with the Chief, isn't the open carry portion of 10.01 unenforceable due to state preemption code?

    Jason

    10.01 Weapons.


    (1)Discharging and carrying of firearms and guns prohibited. (Cr. #1412) No person, except a sheriff, constable, police officer or their deputies, shall fire or discharge any firearm, rifle, spring or air gun within the City or have any firearm, rifle, spring or air gun in his possession or under his control, unless it is unloaded and knocked down or enclosed within a carrying case or other suitable container, provided the City Council may permit the maintenance and use of supervised rifle or pistol ranges or shooting galleries. This subsection shall prohibit hunting within the City.

    (2)Carrying concealed weapons prohibited. (Cr. #1413) No person, except a police or peace officer, shall carry on his person any pistol, bowie knife, dirk, dagger, slingshot or any dangerous and concealed weapon.



    The portion highlight in green is 100% unenforceable and has been since 1995. This has been verified by the Eau Claire City Attorney. I suggest you take your request to your city attorney. Wear your recording device, submit a written question asking for a written request. If you can get the Chief or the city attorney to state in writing or on tape that they enforce the highlighted portion, then contact you county DA and file a complaint against the attorney/chief for violating state statute.

    66.0409(4)(b)
    (b) If a political subdivision has in effect on November 17, 1995, an ordinance or resolution that regulates the sale, purchase, transfer, ownership, use, keeping, possession, bearing, transportation, licensing, permitting, registration or taxation of any firearm or part of a firearm, including ammunition and reloader components, and the ordinance or resolution is not the same as or similar to a state statute, the ordinance or resolution shall have no legal effect and the political subdivision may not enforce the ordinance or resolution on or after November 18, 1995.



  7. #7
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    Birdhunter wrote:
    Update:

    After two emails to the Chief, and one to the City Attorney (all of which went unanswered), I contacted my Alderperson asking why no one responds to my questions. The Chief told her to tell me that municipal code 10.01 is still being enforced (I've attached 10.01 below). I asked that the Chief contact me directly, because I still wanted clarification on my two specific questions. Before I talk with the Chief, isn't the open carry portion of 10.01 unenforceable due to state preemption code?

    Jason

    10.01 Weapons.


    (1)Discharging and carrying of firearms and guns prohibited. (Cr. #1412) No person, except a sheriff, constable, police officer or their deputies, shall fire or discharge any firearm, rifle, spring or air gun within the City or have any firearm, rifle, spring or air gun in his possession or under his control, unless it is unloaded and knocked down or enclosed within a carrying case or other suitable container, provided the City Council may permit the maintenance and use of supervised rifle or pistol ranges or shooting galleries. This subsection shall prohibit hunting within the City.

    (2)Carrying concealed weapons prohibited. (Cr. #1413) No person, except a police or peace officer, shall carry on his person any pistol, bowie knife, dirk, dagger, slingshot or any dangerous and concealed weapon.


    Yes, preempted under 66.0409.

  8. #8
    Regular Member Birdhunter's Avatar
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    I'm sure that this is why no one wants to reply to my email - they know it's unenforceable, but don't want to be called out on it. The Chief wants to talk to me rather than reply in writing.



  9. #9
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    Birdhunter wrote:
    I'm sure that this is why no one wants to reply to my email - they know it's unenforceable, but don't want to be called out on it. The Chief wants to talk to me rather than reply in writing.

    This is precisely why they don't wish to respond. By having the laws on the books it will likely deter the casual carrier, and of course whenever nobody carries when they could, the state wins.. But no worries on that one being enforced, a DA would have to be on crack to go before a judge to attempt enforcement of a law which has been rendered invalid years ago.

  10. #10
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    Birdhunter:

    Following ismy opinion:

    10.01(2) is enforceable. It is no more strict than ss 941.23 which is a statewide prohibition of carrying a concealed and dangerous weapon.

    Portions of of 10.01(1) is enforceable. The parts regarding discharge of a firearm, prohibited carry of spring and airguns and the hunting prohibition withinthe city. The part that prohibits carry of visible firearms is not enforceable understate preemption statue 66.0409 (Local Regulation of Firearms). Make note that 66.0409 applies only to firearms.

    Other than giving him the information that supports your position. I doubt that you will get far with the police chief directly. Sounds like his opinion is indelible unless he receives instructions from a higher authority.

    Your best best is to give statute information to your alderman and ask him to get involved in the clarification. Second choice, that may be successful, would be a personal visit to the city attorney with the back up documentation. If you succeed in convincing the CA then he could pass advice to the Chief.

    I am not an attorney so my opinion has no legal significance but I think other members of the forum would have similar opinion.

    In any event I wish you well and respect your tenacity.





  11. #11
    Founder's Club Member bnhcomputing's Avatar
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    Birdhunter wrote:
    I'm sure that this is why no one wants to reply to my email - they know it's unenforceable, but don't want to be called out on it. The Chief wants to talk to me rather than reply in writing.

    Great, put on your recorder and go talk to him. You can record him and he doesn't even need to know.

  12. #12
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    birdhunter:

    Piece of advice: Do not meet with the Chief one-on-one. If you do meet with him take along a witness or at least a recorder and inform him that you will be recording the conversation. I have no doubt he wants to get you one-on-one so he can brow beat and intimidate you. He probably won't make any specific threat but hemore than likelywants to make it clear to you that if you do open carry in the city life could get miserable.

  13. #13
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    Birdhunter wrote:
    I'm sure that this is why no one wants to reply to my email - they know it's unenforceable, but don't want to be called out on it. The Chief wants to talk to me rather than reply in writing.

    If you feel like waiting around a month until I get back from College, I'd love to come with ya.

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