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    Michigan 15-year-old dies after police Taser himhttp://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090322/ap_on_re_us/teen_taser_death

    our war on crime is a failure, why are we so hysterical over made up fake crimes that people will actually say these yahoo cops did the right thing, by killing someone over a fist fight/argument.





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    The US had LESS accidental deaths when cops carried JUST guns.





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    "Happiness is a warm shotgun!!"
    "I am neither a pessimist nor a cynic. I am, rather, a realist."
    "The most dangerous things I've ever encountered were a Second Lieutenant with a map and a compass and a Private who was bored and had time on his hands."

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    Nothing is 'safe' but only less risky. When Thomas A. Swift's Electric Rifle was invented it was likely demonstrated to have a 1/10,000 fatality rate that meant a death every year or two. Now it is 'deployed' a thousand times per day and we/they are leaning the meaning of a 10^-4 rate.

    Safety is the first act of security theater and the tyrant's tool.

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    ImFromTheGovernmentAndImHereToHelp wrote:
    Michigan 15-year-old dies after police Taser himhttp://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090322/...en_taser_death

    our war on crime is a failure, why are we so hysterical over made up fake crimes that people will actually say these yahoo cops did the right thing, by killing someone over a fist fight/argument.
    The kid died because he refused to stop his illegal actions, and then attacked a cop, also illegal.

    I don't have much sympathy for thugs.

    Assault and battery is not a made up fake crime.

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    baaah baaa baaa sheeple

    people don't deserve to die for a fist fight.

    whoever called the cops for this "argument" should be kicked in the balls

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    As much as I like being kept up-to-date on these things, this thread is off-topic for the forum.

    The better use for this info is to save a link, and then post it into a thread discussion when tazers comeup under discussion.

    JohnnyB, I supported you when you kept it to satire. You were even humorous from time to time.

    But, if you don't knock off the cop bashing type stuff I'll write the alerts about your presence to John and Mike myself. Please just stop. I won't say why.You've been told over and over and over.

    PS: Can you change your screen name? Ituses so much columnwidththat the columns on the mainthread title page are shifted all out of proportion.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Citizen wrote:
    As much as I like being kept up-to-date on these things, this thread is off-topic for the forum.

    The better use for this info is to save a link, and then post it into a thread discussion when tazers comeup under discussion.

    JohnnyB, I supported you when you kept it to satire. You were even humorous from time to time.

    But, if you don't knock off the cop bashing type stuff I'll write the alerts about your presence to John and Mike myself. Please just stop. I won't say why.You've been told over and over and over.

    PS: Can you change your screen name? Ituses so much columnwidththat the columns on the mainthread title page are shifted all out of proportion.
    Thank You

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    ?

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    ImFromTheGovernmentAndImHereToHelp wrote:
    ?
    Says so much!

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    ilbob wrote:
    ImFromTheGovernmentAndImHereToHelp wrote:
    Michigan 15-year-old dies after police Taser himhttp://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090322/...en_taser_death

    our war on crime is a failure, why are we so hysterical over made up fake crimes that people will actually say these yahoo cops did the right thing, by killing someone over a fist fight/argument.
    The kid died because he refused to stop his illegal actions, and then attacked a cop, also illegal.

    I don't have much sympathy for thugs.

    Assault and battery is not a made up fake crime.
    +1.
    The guy, 15 or not, should know better than attacking responding officers. What they were supposed to do - run away from him so he doesn't hurt them? WTF is police for then? I'm no fan of police overstepping their legal boundaries, but i'm also against neutering the cops. They are called LAW ENFORCEMENT for a reason - you need to use FORCE to ENFORCE. If it was just an argumentwith a brieffist fight, i'd agree that police had no business using force. But when cops arrived and ordered them to stop and got attacked in return, all bets are off. I, for one, think cops should be evenable to shoot thugs in the back if they run away after being clearly warned by a LEO who properly identified him/her self. Speaking of which, CBPshould also hire snipers who are authorized to shoot on sight if you really want to secure the border.

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    Chaingun81 wrote:
    ilbob wrote:
    ImFromTheGovernmentAndImHereToHelp wrote:
    Michigan 15-year-old dies after police Taser himhttp://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090322/...en_taser_death

    our war on crime is a failure, why are we so hysterical over made up fake crimes that people will actually say these yahoo cops did the right thing, by killing someone over a fist fight/argument.
    The kid died because he refused to stop his illegal actions, and then attacked a cop, also illegal.

    I don't have much sympathy for thugs.

    Assault and battery is not a made up fake crime.
    +1.
    The guy, 15 or not, should know better than attacking responding officers. What they were supposed to do - run away from him so he doesn't hurt them? WTF is police for then? I'm no fan of police overstepping their legal boundaries, but i'm also against neutering the cops. They are called LAW ENFORCEMENT for a reason - you need to use FORCE to ENFORCE. If it was just an argumentwith a brieffist fight, i'd agree that police had no business using force. But when cops arrived and ordered them to stop and got attacked in return, all bets are off. I, for one, think cops should be evenable to shoot thugs in the back if they run away after being clearly warned by a LEO who properly identified him/her self. Speaking of which, CBPshould also hire snipers who are authorized to shoot on sight if you really want to secure the border.
    sieg heil

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    I remember back in the day when the cops showed up to a fist fight, they'd let the combatants duke it out, wear themselves out, declare a winner, then arrest them both for disorderly. Let those two finish the fight, THEN step in. Sheesh, don't cops know anything these days? Hell, the cops used to make bets on who was gonna be the winner...

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    "Happiness is a warm shotgun!!"
    "I am neither a pessimist nor a cynic. I am, rather, a realist."
    "The most dangerous things I've ever encountered were a Second Lieutenant with a map and a compass and a Private who was bored and had time on his hands."

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    SFCRetired wrote:
    Rethinking my post just a wee tad: My beef is with a device that the manufacturer continues to tout as "safe". All of us here can pretty much agree that nothing is completely safe.

    I just do not believe that the device is as safe as is claimed and I most assuredly do not believe that it is a device that should be issued to or used by law enforcement.

    Yeah, the kid was wrong, wrong, wrong. But that shouldn't have gotten him executed, no matter how accidentally.
    Gota give the LEO's some credit here, at least they knew they were drawing down on him with tasers. Unlike the transit LEO in Washington?

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    ilbob wrote:
    ImFromTheGovernmentAndImHereToHelp wrote:
    Michigan 15-year-old dies after police Taser himhttp://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090322/...en_taser_death

    our war on crime is a failure, why are we so hysterical over made up fake crimes that people will actually say these yahoo cops did the right thing, by killing someone over a fist fight/argument.
    The kid died because he refused to stop his illegal actions, and then attacked a cop, also illegal.

    I don't have much sympathy for thugs.

    Assault and battery is not a made up fake crime.
    that is right--assault is a crime that calls for the death penalty....that is asinine to no end...

    You would have been a wonderful KGB interrogator at Lubyanka Prison in Moscow...

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    suntzu wrote:
    ilbob wrote:
    ImFromTheGovernmentAndImHereToHelp wrote:
    Michigan 15-year-old dies after police Taser himhttp://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090322/...en_taser_death

    our war on crime is a failure, why are we so hysterical over made up fake crimes that people will actually say these yahoo cops did the right thing, by killing someone over a fist fight/argument.
    The kid died because he refused to stop his illegal actions, and then attacked a cop, also illegal.

    I don't have much sympathy for thugs.

    Assault and battery is not a made up fake crime.
    that is right--assault is a crime that calls for the death penalty....that is asinine to no end...

    You would have been a wonderful KGB interrogator at Lubyanka Prison in Moscow...
    right

    and how do we know the kid really assaulted the cop? maybe he just farted near him?

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    Chaingun81 wrote:
    ilbob wrote:
    ImFromTheGovernmentAndImHereToHelp wrote:
    Michigan 15-year-old dies after police Taser himhttp://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090322/...en_taser_death

    our war on crime is a failure, why are we so hysterical over made up fake crimes that people will actually say these yahoo cops did the right thing, by killing someone over a fist fight/argument.
    The kid died because he refused to stop his illegal actions, and then attacked a cop, also illegal.

    I don't have much sympathy for thugs.

    Assault and battery is not a made up fake crime.
    +1.
    The guy, 15 or not, should know better than attacking responding officers. What they were supposed to do - run away from him so he doesn't hurt them? WTF is police for then? I'm no fan of police overstepping their legal boundaries, but i'm also against neutering the cops. They are called LAW ENFORCEMENT for a reason - you need to use FORCE to ENFORCE. If it was just an argumentwith a brieffist fight, i'd agree that police had no business using force. But when cops arrived and ordered them to stop and got attacked in return, all bets are off. I, for one, think cops should be evenable to shoot thugs in the back if they run away after being clearly warned by a LEO who properly identified him/her self. Speaking of which, CBPshould also hire snipers who are authorized to shoot on sight if you really want to secure the border.
    there are so many things wrong with this post.....





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    SpringerXDacp wrote:
    SFCRetired wrote:
    Rethinking my post just a wee tad: My beef is with a device that the manufacturer continues to tout as "safe". All of us here can pretty much agree that nothing is completely safe.

    I just do not believe that the device is as safe as is claimed and I most assuredly do not believe that it is a device that should be issued to or used by law enforcement.

    Yeah, the kid was wrong, wrong, wrong. But that shouldn't have gotten him executed, no matter how accidentally.
    Gota give the LEO's some credit here, at least they knew they were drawing down on him with tasers. Unlike the transit LEO in Washington?
    you mean the BART cop in Alameda Co, California?

    maybe they really meant to draw and fire their guns and just accidentally drew their tasers instead?

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    suntzu wrote:
    SpringerXDacp wrote:
    SFCRetired wrote:
    Rethinking my post just a wee tad: My beef is with a device that the manufacturer continues to tout as "safe". All of us here can pretty much agree that nothing is completely safe.

    I just do not believe that the device is as safe as is claimed and I most assuredly do not believe that it is a device that should be issued to or used by law enforcement.

    Yeah, the kid was wrong, wrong, wrong. But that shouldn't have gotten him executed, no matter how accidentally.
    Gota give the LEO's some credit here, at least they knew they were drawing down on him with tasers. Unlike the transit LEO in Washington?
    you mean the BART cop in Alameda Co, California?

    maybe they really meant to draw and fire their guns and just accidentally drew their tasers instead?
    Thanks for the correction Suntzu. That's why I placed the ? on the end-I wasn't sure at the time of my post where exactly the location was at.

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    SFCRetired wrote:
    Rethinking my post just a wee tad: My beef is with a device that the manufacturer continues to tout as "safe". All of us here can pretty much agree that nothing is completely safe.

    I just do not believe that the device is as safe as is claimed and I most assuredly do not believe that it is a device that should be issued to or used by law enforcement.

    Yeah, the kid was wrong, wrong, wrong. But that shouldn't have gotten him executed, no matter how accidentally.
    The Taser(tm) is safe [to use on humans as an alternative to deadly force or physical force which would normally result in bodily damage to the suspect when such force is required], for the most part. Between a baton beating and Taser discharge, you're probably better off getting zapped for a few seconds.

    However, the frequency of use is what seems to be the cause for concern. Labeling the Taser a "compliance device" coupled with the lax policies of some police departments seems to have given many officers the impression that any time someone doesn't immediately comply with whatever they say they're justified in electro-zapping "the offender" "for officer safety."

    It really has less to do with the device than the officer. I remember OpenCarry member TJ was tackled by police for taking a walk around his block while lawfully openly carrying. Several OC members have been held at gunpoint for no reason other than they were lawfully openly carrying. Danbus (OC member) was arrested what, five times now for not breaking the law?

    People should stop looking at the officer and look at the commanding officer, because nothing happens repeatedly without their stamp of approval, and that goes all the way to the Mayor.

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    Pointman wrote:
    SFCRetired wrote:
    Rethinking my post just a wee tad: My beef is with a device that the manufacturer continues to tout as "safe". All of us here can pretty much agree that nothing is completely safe.

    I just do not believe that the device is as safe as is claimed and I most assuredly do not believe that it is a device that should be issued to or used by law enforcement.

    Yeah, the kid was wrong, wrong, wrong. But that shouldn't have gotten him executed, no matter how accidentally.
    The Taser(tm) is safe [to use on humans as an alternative to deadly force or physical force which would normally result in bodily damage to the suspect when such force is required], for the most part. Between a baton beating and Taser discharge, you're probably better off getting zapped for a few seconds.

    However, the frequency of use is what seems to be the cause for concern. Labeling the Taser a "compliance device" coupled with the lax policies of some police departments seems to have given many officers the impression that any time someone doesn't immediately comply with whatever they say they're justified in electro-zapping "the offender" "for officer safety."

    It really has less to do with the device than the officer. I remember OpenCarry member TJ was tackled by police for taking a walk around his block while lawfully openly carrying. Several OC members have been held at gunpoint for no reason other than they were lawfully openly carrying. Danbus (OC member) was arrested what, five times now for not breaking the law?

    People should stop looking at the officer and look at the commanding officer, because nothing happens repeatedly without their stamp of approval, and that goes all the way to the Mayor.
    No, I do blame the individual police officer. It is their responsibility to use common sense, and I say again, as I have said several times before--if the police are THAT afraid of the normal citizenry then they need to get out of the police business and get into something more suited to them.

    It is the fault of the individual officer, it is the fault of the chief of police or sheriff, it is the fault of the department, and it is the fault of the city for failing to properly train, and psychologically evaluate their employees properly, and for their failure to promptly terminate or otherwise punish their employees and bring them under control. It is also the fault of the academies for failing to train their recruits properly, it is the fault of the department for not eliminating the military mindset from its employees--so yes I blame the individual officer, but I also blame the entire system for promoting, encouraging and continuing abusive tactics.

    The public needs more control over law enforcement, and I am firmly for public review boards and for holding the police accountable for their misconduct.

    I would also be for requiring law enforcement officers to undergo a tasing and to be maced at least once a week just so they are keenly understand what it feels like to get hit with these "compliance devices".

    No, I'm not a cop hater--I just tend to think they are out of control in this country, and that the public should absolutely demand more accountability for what they do, and to hold them criminally and civilly liable when they step over the line.



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    I live in Bay City, Mi so I've been hearing a lot about what happened.

    From what I was told there was 5 people involved; getting in the faces of the police officers which there was 3 cops.

    I've been living in Bay City for a while now, and have seen the police be nothing but professional. The few that I have talked to talked to me with respect.

    I'm just saying lets not blame the police till we get the full story. If there where 5 people going after the 3 officers then maybe the use of the taser was justified.

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    suntzu wrote:
    Pointman wrote:
    SFCRetired wrote:
    Rethinking my post just a wee tad: My beef is with a device that the manufacturer continues to tout as "safe". All of us here can pretty much agree that nothing is completely safe.

    I just do not believe that the device is as safe as is claimed and I most assuredly do not believe that it is a device that should be issued to or used by law enforcement.

    Yeah, the kid was wrong, wrong, wrong. But that shouldn't have gotten him executed, no matter how accidentally.
    The Taser(tm) is safe [to use on humans as an alternative to deadly force or physical force which would normally result in bodily damage to the suspect when such force is required], for the most part. Between a baton beating and Taser discharge, you're probably better off getting zapped for a few seconds.

    However, the frequency of use is what seems to be the cause for concern. Labeling the Taser a "compliance device" coupled with the lax policies of some police departments seems to have given many officers the impression that any time someone doesn't immediately comply with whatever they say they're justified in electro-zapping "the offender" "for officer safety."

    It really has less to do with the device than the officer. I remember OpenCarry member TJ was tackled by police for taking a walk around his block while lawfully openly carrying. Several OC members have been held at gunpoint for no reason other than they were lawfully openly carrying. Danbus (OC member) was arrested what, five times now for not breaking the law?

    People should stop looking at the officer and look at the commanding officer, because nothing happens repeatedly without their stamp of approval, and that goes all the way to the Mayor.
    No, I do blame the individual police officer. It is their responsibility to use common sense, and I say again, as I have said several times before--if the police are THAT afraid of the normal citizenry then they need to get out of the police business and get into something more suited to them.

    It is the fault of the individual officer, it is the fault of the chief of police or sheriff, it is the fault of the department, and it is the fault of the city for failing to properly train, and psychologically evaluate their employees properly, and for their failure to promptly terminate or otherwise punish their employees and bring them under control. It is also the fault of the academies for failing to train their recruits properly, it is the fault of the department for not eliminating the military mindset from its employees--so yes I blame the individual officer, but I also blame the entire system for promoting, encouraging and continuing abusive tactics.

    The public needs more control over law enforcement, and I am firmly for public review boards and for holding the police accountable for their misconduct.

    I would also be for requiring law enforcement officers to undergo a tasing and to be maced at least once a week just so they are keenly understand what it feels like to get hit with these "compliance devices".

    No, I'm not a cop hater--I just tend to think they are out of control in this country, and that the public should absolutely demand more accountability for what they do, and to hold them criminally and civilly liable when they step over the line.

    While I will agree that there are some departments that undoubtedly have lax policies regarding any type of use of force I would contend that most do not. The taser, as are the baton and pepper spray, is a "less lethal" device and are very useful as compliance devices. I would also put forth that these things are like plane rides, they do have accidents but compared to how often used are still a safer way to travel.

    That being said, I am not a LEO per se. I work in Corrections for a Sheriff's Office. I am on the ERT team (more hand to hand tactics and constant training, and have been sprayed, hit with the pepperball launcher and tased several times). It is agency policy that all who carry any Less-lethal device get the dose before using it. I am also former military (EOD) and law enforcement agencies, for what they do, have to be para-military. For any officer on the street they have the same goal at the end of the day as you do from your job... to go home.

    I know I am a new member but did read the rules about LEO bashing and that does seem to be what this is. I want to say until you have walked the walk or witnessed it first hand stop the bashing. Military and law enforcement in general provide a service to the public and even though we may not be eye-to-eye on many issues these are the people protecting us, our families and our friends day in and day out.

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    wrong, cops don't protect anyone. they keep people in check.

    only the individual can truly protect themselves.

    if you buy into the "LEOs are protecting you" line you've already lost your freedom.



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