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Thread: Carrying in a Restaurant

  1. #1
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    I just completed the cc class but I have a good 4-5 months before getting a permit because Guilford County is so backed up.

    In the class the instructor said it is illegal to cc in an establishment that sales and serves alcohol but it perfect legal to oc in that establishment unless they have a sign indicating otherwise.

    I have seen some comments on this site in contradiction to that. What's the deal?

    Also, I have seen on here that it's illegal to carry, open or concealed, if you have alcohol in your system. While the instructor definitely said alcohol and firearms don't mix, he said NC law states you cannot cc with alcohol in your system but says nothing about oc.

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    jp49911 wrote:
    I just completed the cc class but I have a good 4-5 months before getting a permit because Guilford County is so backed up.

    In the class the instructor said it is illegal to cc in an establishment that sales and serves alcohol but it perfect legal to oc in that establishment unless they have a sign indicating otherwise.

    I have seen some comments on this site in contradiction to that. What's the deal?

    Also, I have seen on here that it's illegal to carry, open or concealed, if you have alcohol in your system. While the instructor definitely said alcohol and firearms don't mix, he said NC law states you cannot cc with alcohol in your system but says nothing about oc.
    Check your state laws thoroughly regarding carrying of either sort into a place that serves alcohol. I think most state laws include a certain "percentage of sales" rule that might help you figure out if you can carry there or not. Most people, cops and firearms instructors included, say as long as you stay in the dining portion of the restaurant and not at the bar, your ok. If it's a place I know I can't legally CC in, then I don't OC there either, wether I think I can get away with it or not.

    As for drinking and OC'ing... DON'T!
    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLT View Post
    Him: "I carry my gun concealed"
    Me: "You're not very good at it"
    Him: "What do you mean?"
    Me: "I know you have a gun"
    End of conversation.

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    You can't carry, whether openly or concealed, into a place you can consume alcohol. You can't carry, whether openly or concealed, with alcohol in you.

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    partemisio wrote:
    You can't carry, whether openly or concealed, into a place you can consume alcohol. You can't carry, whether openly or concealed, with alcohol in you.
    +1.

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    partemisio wrote:
    You can't carry, whether openly or concealed, into a place you can consume alcohol. You can't carry, whether openly or concealed, with alcohol in you.
    agreed.

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    I forgot to mention, there is a bill right now that is for getting rid of the law about carrying concealed into a place where you can consume alcohol. I urge you to contact the state reps listed. Check here: http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum41/23207.html

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    Sorry to hear Guilford County is so backed up. They are legally required to issue the permit within 90 days though, so at most you will only have to wait 3 months. (I'm not sure who told you 4 to 5 months but they were wrong.)

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    Well they have to approve you or tell you why you were denied within 90 days. However, they only accept applications by appointment and are so backed up it takes two months to get an appointment. Then it will be every bit of the 90 days they are allowed to issue it.

    I went down on March 13 and was told I would get a call for an appointment by May or June. They did try something new with group appointments where they saw multiple people at once and said it went well. They told me they are considering hiring someone else to facilitate more group appointments so I could get an appointment sooner.

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    partemisio wrote:
    You can't carry, whether openly or concealed, into a place you can consume alcohol. You can't carry, whether openly or concealed, with alcohol in you.
    I found this online:

    § 14‑415.11. Permit to carry concealed handgun; scope of permit.
    (a) Any person who has a concealed handgun permit may carry a concealed handgun unless otherwise specifically prohibited by law. The person shall carry the permit together with valid identification whenever the person is carrying a concealed handgun, shall disclose to any law enforcement officer that the person holds a valid permit and is carrying a concealed handgun when approached or addressed by the officer, and shall display both the permit and the proper identification upon the request of a law enforcement officer. In addition to these requirements, a military permittee whose permit has expired during deployment may carry a concealed handgun during the 90 days following the end of deployment and before the permit is renewed provided the permittee also displays proof of deployment to any law enforcement officer.
    (b) The sheriff shall issue a permit to carry a concealed handgun to a person who qualifies for a permit under G.S. 14‑415.12. The permit shall be valid throughout the State for a period of five years from the date of issuance.
    (c) A permit does not authorize a person to carry a concealed handgun in the areas prohibited by G.S. 14‑269.2, 14‑269.3, 14‑269.4, and 14‑277.2, in an area prohibited by rule adopted under G.S. 120‑32.1, in any area prohibited by 18 U.S.C. § 922 or any other federal law, in a law enforcement or correctional facility, in a building housing only State or federal offices, in an office of the State or federal government that is not located in a building exclusively occupied by the State or federal government, a financial institution, or on any other premises, except state‑owned rest areas or state‑owned rest stops along the highways, where notice that carrying a concealed handgun is prohibited by the posting of a conspicuous notice or statement by the person in legal possession or control of the premises. It shall be unlawful for a person, with or without a permit, to carry a concealed handgun while consuming alcohol or at any time while the person has remaining in his body any alcohol or in his blood a controlled substance previously consumed, but a person does not violate this condition if a controlled substance in his blood was lawfully obtained and taken in therapeutically appropriate amounts.


    I don't know If I'd be willing to test the interpretation on this but it's clear that open carry while drinking isn't covered here. Is there another law or statute that does so

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    While I do not advocate it, there is actually no law on the books concerning possession of a firearm and drinking (i.e. OC'ing.).



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    My thoughts are that there are enough "drunks with guns" ideas out there. We don't need to be contributing to it. I believe if somebody Oc's while drinking and does something stupid there will be a law to follow. Some things are just too stupid to do regardless of whether they are illegal.

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    I open carry with alcohol in my system all the time. A glass of wine with dinner before I go out should not determine whether I can have the tools available to protect myself.

    Exposing yourself in public is illegal. People tend to do that more when they're drunk. So now should we make it illegal to drink if you have something to expose?

    Drinking is a legal activity. Implying that it should be illegal for a man to carry while he is drinking is tantamount to saying that it should be illegal for a man to carry while he's whistling. A drunk man has no more or less rights than a sober one. To insist otherwise is to promote gun control, plain and simple.

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    DreQo wrote:
    I open carry with alcohol in my system all the time. A glass of wine with dinner before I go out should not determine whether I can have the tools available to protect myself.

    Exposing yourself in public is illegal. People tend to do that more when they're drunk. So now should we make it illegal to drink if you have something to expose?

    Drinking is a legal activity. Implying that it should be illegal for a man to carry while he is drinking is tantamount to saying that it should be illegal for a man to carry while he's whistling. A drunk man has no more or less rights than a sober one. To insist otherwise is to promote gun control, plain and simple.
    I hear you DreQo. I don't drink beer or liquor (not that the type of alcohol matters), but I enjoy a glass of wine from time to time. That shouldn't strip me of my right to carry.

    With power comes responsibility. If one is intrusted to be responsible enough to carry a lethal weapon, then that person should be entrusted with the responsibility to know if they have consumed too much alcohol to carry a weapon and make sound judgements.

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    jp49911 wrote:
    DreQo wrote:
    I open carry with alcohol in my system all the time. A glass of wine with dinner before I go out should not determine whether I can have the tools available to protect myself.

    Exposing yourself in public is illegal. People tend to do that more when they're drunk. So now should we make it illegal to drink if you have something to expose?

    Drinking is a legal activity. Implying that it should be illegal for a man to carry while he is drinking is tantamount to saying that it should be illegal for a man to carry while he's whistling. A drunk man has no more or less rights than a sober one. To insist otherwise is to promote gun control, plain and simple.
    I hear you DreQo. I don't drink beer or liquor (not that the type of alcohol matters), but I enjoy a glass of wine from time to time. That shouldn't strip me of my right to carry.

    With power comes responsibility. If one is intrusted to be responsible enough to carry a lethal weapon, then that person should be entrusted with the responsibility to know if they have consumed too much alcohol to carry a weapon and make sound judgements.
    Oh I drink beer and liquor, too and even if I'm too drunk to drive, I'd still like to have the option to save my own life if threatened. Such a silly desire, huh?

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    Drinking and guns should be the same as drinking and cars, at best. Nobody acts he same way drunk as when they are sober. A glass of wine won't do anything, I don't think anyway. But going over the limit will change how quickly somebody reacts to things. Some people when drunk will get in a fight simply because somebody said something they don't like. Nobody knows how they are going to act when drunk. I know you probably think you do, but you don't.
    Exposing yourself in public is illegal. People tend to do that more when they're drunk. So now should we make it illegal to drink if you have something to expose?
    That statement goes against what you are saying. This statement says that more people will use their guns when they are drunk, which they would and not for good reasons most of the time.

    A drunk man has no more or less rights than a sober one. To insist otherwise is to promote gun control, plain and simple.
    He has less. He can't drive, in most cases he won't be allowed to go to work, he might not be allowed in some public places. It's not to promote gun control, it is to promote sound gun use. And to keep the gun control from getting worse by not letting people drink and then shoot somebody because they bumped into them or said something to ttheir wife.


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    So just to clarify, by drinking alcohol you lose rights? Really? :? And you think that's ok?

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    There's a big difference between drinking and being drunk.

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    partemisio wrote:
    There's a big difference between drinking and being drunk.
    You didn't answer my question.

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    DreQo wrote:
    partemisio wrote:
    There's a big difference between drinking and being drunk.
    You didn't answer my question.
    I see that we are now debating driving rights..

    Well actually, he pretty much did answer your question.

    You don't lose your right to drive by "drinking alcohol". You lose your right to drive by becoming legally intoxicated. In North Carolina, a .08% BAC means that you are legally intoxicated. So, if you chose to continue "drinking alcohol" until you become legally intoxicated, then yes, you lose that right. Am I okay with that? Yes I am.

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    Under our current licensing system, driving is a privilege, not a right, so that argument holds no water.

    Drinking alcohol can and does effect one's judgement and response time. These effects can and often are the cause of poor decisions and actions. You are implying that if, by drinking, a person's judgement becomes skewed, and their response time lowered, than they should not be allowed to carry a firearm to defend themselves.

    What about if I'm tired? My judgement and response time are both effected. Should I lose my right to carry a firearm when I go without sleep for a certain period of time? Who decides what that period of time is?

    What about people who's judgement and response time are naturally different from others? Should a whole group of people that don't pass the judgement and response time test be banned from exercising their rights? Who gets to write that test?

    Here's what I'm getting at guys. Hurting, shooting, and killing people are already illegal acts. If a person hurts, shoots, or kills someone while drinking, there's already a law for them to be punished under. If you want to make that punishment more severe if alcohol is involved, go for it. The bottom line is that being drunk and having a firearm nearby does not in and of itself hurt anyone or violate anyone's rights. Is it a bad idea? Probably. Is it MY decision to make, and not the government's? Absolutely.


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    Unfortunately, owning a gun is basically the same as being able to drive, more of a privilege than a right. The only real difference being you can use the gun when you are too young to buy it.

    Being tired is not the same thing I am talking about. A person that is tired won't get pissed off any more easily than when they are fully awake. I have seen drunk people get pissed off for the simplest things and get in a fight over it.

    I understand what you are saying about it being illegal to do certain things. But simply making a harsher penalty would not be the right thing to do. Alcohol will cause more people to do those things. Something that is obviously a huge threat to others safety should not be allowed.Being drunk and driving does not in and of itself hurt anyone or violate anyone's rights, but we all know it will hurt somebody. Should having a blood alcohol content of .30 and driving be allowed? I sure don't think so for obvious reasons. It is the same with a gun. Cars and guns can both be dangerous weapons. mixing alcohol with them surely will make them dangerous weapons. Having a glass of wine is fine, that won't mess up your judgment of whether you should use your firearm or not. Being over the legal limit (for driving) is too much to have in your system while carrying.

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    DreQo wrote:
    Here's what I'm getting at guys. Hurting, shooting, and killing people are already illegal acts. If a person hurts, shoots, or kills someone while drinking, there's already a law for them to be punished under. If you want to make that punishment more severe if alcohol is involved, go for it. The bottom line is that being drunk and having a firearm nearby does not in and of itself hurt anyone or violate anyone's rights. Is it a bad idea? Probably. Is it MY decision to make, and not the government's? Absolutely.
    Amen to that. We don't need the government dictating common sense to us...besides there are already public drunkeness laws that they could use if one were to walk around drunk with or withouta gun.

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    NC General Statute that covers weapons in places that serve alcohol:



    § 14‑269.3. Carrying weapons into assemblies and establishments where alcoholic beverages are sold and consumed.

    (a) It shall be unlawful for any person to carry any gun, rifle, or pistol into any assembly where a fee has been charged for admission thereto, or into any establishment in which alcoholic beverages are sold and consumed. Any person violating the provisions of this section shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.

    (b) This section shall not apply to the following:

    (1) A person exempted from the provisions of G.S. 14‑269;

    (2) The owner or lessee of the premises or business establishment;

    (3) A person participating in the event, if he is carrying a gun, rifle, or pistol with the permission of the owner, lessee, or person or organization sponsoring the event; and

    (4) A person registered or hired as a security guard by the owner, lessee, or person or organization sponsoring the event. (1977, c. 1016, s. 1; 1981, c. 412, s. 4, c. 747, s. 66; 1993, c. 539, s. 165; 1994, Ex. Sess., c. 24, s. 14(c).)



    It is not legal to carry a weapon into such a place, openly or concealed. Having someone who can legally carry said weapon into the establishment and then hand it to you might actually be legal, so long as it was not concealed within the meaning of the law. I wouldn't want to be the test case though.

    I have a friend that owns a bar in Chapel Hill. He can (and does) legally carry there because he is the owner of the establishment. Those exempted from GS-14-269 can also carry in such establishments. That would include CHP holders if the CHP legislation didn't specifically prohibit it. Most of the other statutes that exempt folks of one kind or another from weapons laws specifically note GS 14-269(b) which is mostly law enforcement officers, active duty folks on deployment, etc.




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    Landric wrote:
    NC General Statute that covers weapons in places that serve alcohol:



    § 14‑269.3. Carrying weapons into assemblies and establishments where alcoholic beverages are sold and consumed.

    (a) It shall be unlawful for any person to carry any gun, rifle, or pistol into any assembly where a fee has been charged for admission thereto, or into any establishment in which alcoholic beverages are sold and consumed. Any person violating the provisions of this section shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.

    (b) This section shall not apply to the following:

    (1) A person exempted from the provisions of G.S. 14‑269;

    (2) The owner or lessee of the premises or business establishment;

    (3) A person participating in the event, if he is carrying a gun, rifle, or pistol with the permission of the owner, lessee, or person or organization sponsoring the event; and

    (4) A person registered or hired as a security guard by the owner, lessee, or person or organization sponsoring the event. (1977, c. 1016, s. 1; 1981, c. 412, s. 4, c. 747, s. 66; 1993, c. 539, s. 165; 1994, Ex. Sess., c. 24, s. 14(c).)



    It is not legal to carry a weapon into such a place, openly or concealed. Having someone who can legally carry said weapon into the establishment and then hand it to you might actually be legal, so long as it was not concealed within the meaning of the law. I wouldn't want to be the test case though.

    I have a friend that owns a bar in Chapel Hill. He can (and does) legally carry there because he is the owner of the establishment. Those exempted from GS-14-269 can also carry in such establishments. That would include CHP holders if the CHP legislation didn't specifically prohibit it. Most of the other statutes that exempt folks of one kind or another from weapons laws specifically note GS 14-269(b) which is mostly law enforcement officers, active duty folks on deployment, etc.


    Been waitin for somebody to eventually post this.

    Well done Landric.

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    blah.



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