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Thread: Question about leaving pistol in a car

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    Hey everybody, I'm new to this forum, looks like a cool bunch here.

    I just got a Glock model 22 at the Roanoke gunshow Saturday. Love it, but can't get a concealed permit as I'm only 20.

    I've of course been reading up on every bit of open cary law I can find for the last few days, and I have one question I can't seem to find a firm answer for anywhere I've looked (including here).

    Is it legal to leave my loaded gun in the car (well out of sight) when I stop to go into some place where I'm not allowed to carry (e.g. private property where it's posted)? I know I'm required to keep it visible (aka dashboard or passenger seat) while I'm driving, but once I'm out of the car I'm not technically 'possessing' it anymore, right?

    Thanks,
    Anthony

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    forewarned7 wrote:
    Hey everybody, I'm new to this forum, looks like a cool bunch here.

    I just got a Glock model 22 at the Roanoke gunshow Saturday. Love it, but can't get a concealed permit as I'm only 20.

    I've of course been reading up on every bit of open cary law I can find for the last few days, and I have one question I can't seem to find a firm answer for anywhere I've looked (including here).

    Is it legal to leave my loaded gun in the car (well out of sight) when I stop to go into some place where I'm not allowed to carry (e.g. private property where it's posted)? I know I'm required to keep it visible (aka dashboard or passenger seat) while I'm driving, but once I'm out of the car I'm not technically 'possessing' it anymore, right?

    Thanks,
    Anthony
    Welcome aboard and to the movement.

    You may OC on your hip in your car in Va. On the seat or dash will make it a missile in hard braking or cornering. Many of us will not spend our money in posted establishments - but that is a personal choice. It surely does avoid the issue of "storing" though.

    One place to store is unloaded in the trunk but there are always is the problem of someone seeing you handle your gun - it excites some people and lets a criminal know where to look. Best place is in a secure, bolted to the floor lock box out of sight - no that is not considered in your possession nor concealing.

    There are many your age and younger here - you are not the Lone Ranger. I'm sure that some will chime in shortly.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    forewarned7 wrote:
    but once I'm out of the car I'm not technically 'possessing' it anymore, right?

    Thanks,
    Anthony
    Anthony,

    Welcome! You are correct. If you need to exit the vehicle, place the gun in the locked glove compartment (for example) and immediately exit the vehicle. Once you are outside the vehicle, the gun is in storage and is not "in your possession, on or about your person".

    I personally dont like exiting and storing it in the truck, as Grapeshot said - too many prying eyes.
    James Reynolds

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    ProShooter wrote:
    forewarned7 wrote:
    but once I'm out of the car I'm not technically 'possessing' it anymore, right?

    Thanks,
    Anthony

    I personally dont like exiting and storing it in the truck, as Grapeshot said - too many prying eyes.
    I feel the same way. I think that I will probably buy a lock box so that I am not worried about leaving it when I go in places.

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    ProShooter wrote:
    Welcome! You are correct. If you need to exit the vehicle, place the gun in the locked glove compartment (for example) and immediately exit the vehicle. Once you are outside the vehicle, the gun is in storage and is not "in your possession, on or about your person".

    I personally dont like exiting and storing it in the truck, as Grapeshot said - too many prying eyes.
    Does the gun have to be unloaded when stored in the glove compartment or center console while I am not in the vehicle?

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    hunter45 wrote:
    ProShooter wrote:
    Welcome! You are correct. If you need to exit the vehicle, place the gun in the locked glove compartment (for example) and immediately exit the vehicle. Once you are outside the vehicle, the gun is in storage and is not "in your possession, on or about your person".

    I personally dont like exiting and storing it in the truck, as Grapeshot said - too many prying eyes.
    Does the gun have to be unloaded when stored in the glove compartment or center console while I am not in the vehicle?
    Stored in locked glove compartment is OK if you are in or out of the vehicle.
    Console storage is legal if you are out of vehicle but not if you are in vehicle and do not have a CHP - it is accessible to you and therefore concealed then.

    Personally I don't like either 'cause those are the first places a BG will look.

    Yata hey

    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Grapeshot wrote:
    Best place is in a secure, bolted to the floor lock box out of sight - no that is not considered in your possession nor concealing.
    Preferably with it bolted above the gas tank. The only way to get one of those out is with a torch, and they'll get a nasty surprise if they try to steal your gun with that set up.

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    There is case law (sorry no cite... On a blackberry) stating the gun can be anywhere in a locked car. The car istself is the "locked container."

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    hunter45 wrote:
    Does the gun have to be unloaded when stored in the glove compartment or center console while I am not in the vehicle?
    It does not need to be unloaded.
    James Reynolds

    NRA Certified Firearms Instructor - Pistol, Shotgun, Home Firearms Safety, Refuse To Be A Victim
    Concealed Firearms Instructor for Virginia, Florida & Utah permits.
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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    ProShooter wrote:
    hunter45 wrote:
    Does the gun have to be unloaded when stored in the glove compartment or center console while I am not in the vehicle?
    It does not need to be unloaded.
    I know this is the Va. section but just to clarify - different states have different laws. Always check and know the laws of any other state in which you might be traveling.

    Going to Pa. this week-end and I will either avoid Maryland or unload and lock 'em up before crossing the line.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    I just bought me a “Schlage” 5ft x ½ in. cable lock from Lowes. Works great since I don’t have a trunk on my Colorado. When unlocked the locking bolt fits through the trigger guard and locks the gun to the rear seat support.

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    I've been watching the replies to this, and they've been very helpful. Thanks a bunch everybody.

    Grapeshot, do you have any sources you can give me as to OCing on my hip in a car? Not that I don't believe you, I'd just like to be able to solidly prove it to anybody I need to before I try it.

    Thanks again.

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    Dragonfly wrote:
    I just bought me a “Schlage” 5ft x ½ in. cable lock from Lowes. Works great since I don’t have a trunk on my Colorado. When unlocked the locking bolt fits through the trigger guard and locks the gun to the rear seat support.
    hopefully with the gun unloaded of course

    I solved this problem myself by simply not leaving it in my vehicle. If I can't carry where I'm going, I don't go there.

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    forewarned7 wrote:
    I've been watching the replies to this, and they've been very helpful. Thanks a bunch everybody.

    Grapeshot, do you have any sources you can give me as to OCing on my hip in a car? Not that I don't believe you, I'd just like to be able to solidly prove it to anybody I need to before I try it.

    Thanks again.
    There are no resources, because there's no law that says OC is ok to do. Is the gun concealed when on your hip? No. Is the gun concealed if you are sitting in a restaurant booth and are facing the wall? No.

    You have not done anything to alter how the gun itself is being carried. Your temporary seated position doesnt alter how the gun is being carried.
    James Reynolds

    NRA Certified Firearms Instructor - Pistol, Shotgun, Home Firearms Safety, Refuse To Be A Victim
    Concealed Firearms Instructor for Virginia, Florida & Utah permits.
    NRA Certified Chief Range Safety Officer
    Sabre Red Pepper Spray Instructor
    Glock Certified Armorer
    Instructor Bio - http://proactiveshooters.com/about-us/

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    ProShooter wrote:
    forewarned7 wrote:
    I've been watching the replies to this, and they've been very helpful. Thanks a bunch everybody.

    Grapeshot, do you have any sources you can give me as to OCing on my hip in a car? Not that I don't believe you, I'd just like to be able to solidly prove it to anybody I need to before I try it.

    Thanks again.
    There are no resources, because there's no law that says OC is ok to do. Is the gun concealed when on your hip? No. Is the gun concealed if you are sitting in a restaurant booth and are facing the wall? No.

    You have not done anything to alter how the gun itself is being carried. Your temporary seated position doesnt alter how the gun is being carried.
    There is also no law making OC illegal - the absence of such a law leaves that right intact with but a few conditions: at least18yo, not a felon, no domestic violence and no limiting mental condition.

    In Va. how you are carrying (visibly = OC) not the position of the viewer nor your surroundings determines legality. In the middle of the sidewalk, in a restaurant booth, in your vehicle or in a glass phone booth are all the same.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Show me the law that says you are allowed to be out in public, and I'll show you the law that says you can OC.
    Why open carry? Because 1911 > 911.

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    hehe good points. I wasn't so much asking for a specific law as just any kind of examples in either legal cases or just times you've spoken to LE and had that supported.

    If not, that's fine, I was just wondering.

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    forewarned7 wrote:
    hehe good points. I wasn't so much asking for a specific law as just any kind of examples in either legal cases or just times you've spoken to LE and had that supported.

    If not, that's fine, I was just wondering.
    What I think is being overlooked is that when there is nothing in the law to cover a certain point, while you would think it is therefore legal, the absence ofstatutory regulation orcourt opinionalso means its open to interpretation and/or misinterpretation by police.

    Meaning a cop could arrest you for CC for in-car hip-OC that wasn't visible to him if he decided to take a hard line and take the law to places it was never really intended to go.Maybe he knows its iffy; but decides to let you spend the money defending against it and maybe getting convicted depending on the judge. Then having to spend money on an appeal. Maybe he really believes it is illegal.

    I'm in the "take no unnecessary chances" camp on this particular in-car point. Mainly because it seems to me too easy for anti-gun cop to abuse.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Citizen wrote:
    forewarned7 wrote:
    hehe good points. I wasn't so much asking for a specific law as just any kind of examples in either legal cases or just times you've spoken to LE and had that supported.

    If not, that's fine, I was just wondering.
    What I think is being overlooked is that when there is nothing in the law to cover a certain point, while you would think it is therefore legal, the absence ofstatutory regulation orcourt opinionalso means its open to interpretation and/or misinterpretation by police.

    Meaning a cop could arrest you for CC for in-car hip-OC that wasn't visible to him if he decided to take a hard line and take the law to places it was never really intended to go.Maybe he knows its iffy; but decides to let you spend the money defending against it and maybe getting convicted depending on the judge. Then having to spend money on an appeal. Maybe he really believes it is illegal.

    I'm in the "take no unnecessary chances" camp on this particular in-car point. Mainly because it seems to me too easy for anti-gun cop to abuse.
    And you therefore always face your strong side to LEOs, never let a solid object come between yourself and another person? Do you rotate on the stool at the lunch counter so as to give all an equal view?

    Hey, I'm sorry Citizen. I lost control there for a minute. What you say may be true and I might be arrested for anything at anytime. Woops there I go again. Sorry. :?

    Boy am I going to pay for that. PBIH !

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Grapeshot wrote:
    SNIP And you therefore always face your strong side to LEOs, never let a solid object come between yourself and another person? Do you rotate on the stool at the lunch counter so as to give all an equal view?

    Hey, I'm sorry Citizen. I lost control there for a minute. What you say may be true and I might be arrested for anything at anytime. Woops there I go again. Sorry. :?

    Boy am I going to pay for that. PBIH !

    Yata hey
    Uh, huh. I've learned not to mess with you!!

    Don't forget that some cops are real funny about guns in cars.

    Restaurant? I don't really see it coming up. I'm not getting pulled over for putting ice-cream on Key Lime pie.

    Lunch counter? Not really. Unless its a misdemeanor for ogling pretty waitresses.

    But traffic stops? That's a situation where you are being stopped for an offense. A situation where [insert all the "traffic stops are dangerous; don't know who might be stopping" reports here].

    If I were going to OC in my car, there would be a holster securely mounted in plain view from driver's and front passenger windows. Securely mounted, yet easily removed so I don't have to leave the empty holster and its message when I park the car. The holster being so the gun doesn't fly during emergency crash avoidance manuvers or a collision.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Citizen wrote:
    Grapeshot wrote:
    SNIP And you therefore always face your strong side to LEOs, never let a solid object come between yourself and another person? Do you rotate on the stool at the lunch counter so as to give all an equal view?

    Hey, I'm sorry Citizen. I lost control there for a minute. What you say may be true and I might be arrested for anything at anytime. Woops there I go again. Sorry. :?

    Boy am I going to pay for that. PBIH !

    Yata hey
    Uh, huh. I've learned not to mess with you!!

    Don't forget that some cops are real funny about guns in cars.

    Restaurant? I don't really see it coming up. I'm not getting pulled over for putting ice-cream on Key Lime pie.

    Lunch counter? Not really. Unless its a misdemeanor for ogling pretty waitresses.

    But traffic stops? That's a situation where you are being stopped for an offense. A situation where [insert all the "traffic stops are dangerous; don't know who might be stopping" reports here].

    If I were going to OC in my car, there would be a holster securely mounted in plain view from driver's and front passenger windows. Securely mounted, yet easily removed so I don't have to leave the empty holster and its message when I park the car. The holster being so the gun doesn't fly during emergency crash avoidance manuvers or a collision.
    So if you CC in your vehicle do you eliminate all of those pesky little possibilities?

    When pulled over (been there) I will maintain a non-threatening posture and talk politely. I may or may not mention my carry but I also will not avoid a direct response to improper/illegal statements from the officer. The situation doesn't get better for us by avoidance. BTW - can't remember the last time I actually got a ticket - been many years.

    That said, I understand your caution. Just don't see the reason for it at least as it relates to the Greater Richmond area. Maybe if I were in NoVa I would have a different take on it.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Get a car safe from center of mass. I'll let you do the google work.
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

    Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
    Paramedics With Guns Scare People!

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    Grapeshot wrote:
    SNIP So if you CC in your vehicle do you eliminate all of those pesky little possibilities?
    No! I open the door to an entirely new set of possibilities. I don't notify. Of course, it can always get interesting once he sees the CHP flagged on the operators license.



    PS: I wasn't trying to use humor to be evasive. I couldn't figure out the point you were trying to make, and decided not to let an opportunity go to waste.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    paramedic70002 wrote:
    Get a car safe from center of mass. I'll let you do the google work.
    http://lmgtfy.com/?q=center+of+mass+safes

    Sorry, couldn't resist.
    Why open carry? Because 1911 > 911.

  25. #25
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Citizen wrote:
    Grapeshot wrote:
    SNIP So if you CC in your vehicle do you eliminate all of those pesky little possibilities?
    No! I open the door to an entirely new set of possibilities. I don't notify. Of course, it can always get interesting once he sees the CHP flagged on the operators license.



    PS: I wasn't trying to use humor to be evasive. I couldn't figure out the point you were trying to make, and decided not to let an opportunity go to waste.
    My point was that an object blocking the view of your OCd gun or if it is not seen because of the viewers position relative to you, does not make it concealed - it is still OCd.

    If you are wearing a 2 1/4" belt w/ a rodeo buckle but it can't be seen because of the above conditions, you are still wearing said belt very visibly - very openly if you will.



    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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