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Thread: CPL Status

  1. #1
    Regular Member Tucker6900's Avatar
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    Hey all,
    I moved to Iowa last October and will be venturing back to michigan next weekend to visit. My quesiton:

    Is my michigan CPL still valid...in michigan?
    If not, how would I go about getting a non resident permit?

    Also, will I be allowed to open carry while Im there?
    The only terrorists I see nowadays are at the Capital.


    The statements made in this post do not necessarily reflect the views of OCDO or its members.

  2. #2
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    Tucker, looks like if you have a permit from Iowa you're good. Not a resident of Michigan, CPL not good.springerdave

  3. #3
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    Tucker6900 wrote:
    Hey all,
    I moved to Iowa last October and will be venturing back to michigan next weekend to visit. My quesiton:

    Is my michigan CPL still valid...in michigan?
    If not, how would I go about getting a non resident permit?

    Also, will I be allowed to open carry while Im there?
    Do you have an Iowa permit. IF so you are good here.

    If you are a legal resident of Iowa, you can NOT carry under your Michigan CPL. I suppose if you had a Michigan drivers license they may not know and you might get away with it, but I think it would be illegal.

    Michigan doesn't issue non-resident permits.

    And you should be familiar with Michigan OC law without a permit. Just remember you CAN NOT carry in ANY PLACE that has a liquor license without a CPL.

    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  4. #4
    Regular Member Tucker6900's Avatar
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    No Iowa permit yet. Applied.....Denied.....That may issue is a killer. Going in to talk with the sheriff soon.

    Looks like Ill be getting rid of my MI cpl. If its no good. Bummer.

    So far the score is Michigan 2, Iowa 0.


    Venator,

    Please humor me. I understand any advice you give is not legal advice. Im well aware of the laws surround OC w/o a CPL (after all, I learned from the best ), but as far as non resident carry, Im a little rusty. Are you telling me that, as long as I follow the OC w/o a CPL rules, even as a non resident, I can legally OC?
    The only terrorists I see nowadays are at the Capital.


    The statements made in this post do not necessarily reflect the views of OCDO or its members.

  5. #5
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    Tucker6900 wrote:
    No Iowa permit yet.* Applied.....Denied.....That may issue is a killer.* Going in to talk with the sheriff soon.

    Looks like Ill be getting rid of my MI cpl.* If its no good.** Bummer.*

    So far the score is Michigan 2, Iowa 0.


    Venator,

    Please humor me.* I understand any advice you give is not legal advice.* Im well aware of the laws surround OC w/o a CPL (after all, I learned from the best ), but as far as non resident carry, Im a little rusty.* Are you telling me that, as long as I follow the OC w/o a CPL rules, even as a non resident, I can legally OC?*
    You *MUST* have a permit to carry in your home state to carry in Michigan. Home state doesn't offer an OC permit to carry? Then you can't carry here. Sorry.

  6. #6
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    Tucker6900 wrote:
    No Iowa permit yet. Applied.....Denied.....That may issue is a killer. Going in to talk with the sheriff soon.

    Looks like Ill be getting rid of my MI cpl. If its no good. Bummer.

    So far the score is Michigan 2, Iowa 0.


    Venator,

    Please humor me. I understand any advice you give is not legal advice. Im well aware of the laws surround OC w/o a CPL (after all, I learned from the best ), but as far as non resident carry, Im a little rusty. Are you telling me that, as long as I follow the OC w/o a CPL rules, even as a non resident, I can legally OC?

    Tucker, do you know of any updateson this HF 2092?

    http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Read.aspx?id=3623

    Friday, March 07, 2008

    House File 2092, introduced by State Representative Clel Baudler (R-58), along with 40 bi-partisan cosponsors, passed out of the House Public Safety Committee with a vote of 18-3 and is now waiting to be placed on the House calendar. HF2092 would change Iowa'sconcealed handgun lawto make Iowa a “shall-issue” state. Under HF2092, any law-abiding persons 21 years of age or older would be eligible for a permit to carry a concealed handgun if they pass a training and marksmanship course. Training would not be required for a renewal of the permit to carry a firearm.



    [line]


    ETA: Apparently,HF 559is the most recent Bill that did not get through subcommittee

    HF 559 was introduced on March 4 by Representative Gayman. This is OUR bill, with the wording that we have been putting together. This bill covers all four of the main points that we feel are important: Shall Issue, Training, Reciprocity, and Appeals. You can find the bill on the Iowa General Assembly website here.]


    As of 3/14, HF 559 did not get out of subcommittee, and is not able to be considered for debate in 2009.
    http://www.iowacarry.org/pages.php?pageid=56

  7. #7
    Regular Member Tucker6900's Avatar
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    SpringerXDacp wrote:
    Tucker6900 wrote:
    No Iowa permit yet. Applied.....Denied.....That may issue is a killer. Going in to talk with the sheriff soon.

    Looks like Ill be getting rid of my MI cpl. If its no good. Bummer.

    So far the score is Michigan 2, Iowa 0.


    Venator,

    Please humor me. I understand any advice you give is not legal advice. Im well aware of the laws surround OC w/o a CPL (after all, I learned from the best ), but as far as non resident carry, Im a little rusty. Are you telling me that, as long as I follow the OC w/o a CPL rules, even as a non resident, I can legally OC?
    Tucker, do you know of any updateson this HF 2092?

    http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Read.aspx?id=3623





    Friday, March 07, 2008



    House File 2092, introduced by State Representative Clel Baudler (R-58), along with 40 bi-partisan cosponsors, passed out of the House Public Safety Committee with a vote of 18-3 and is now waiting to be placed on the House calendar. HF2092 would change Iowa'sconcealed handgun lawto make Iowa a “shall-issue” state. Under HF2092, any law-abiding persons 21 years of age or older would be eligible for a permit to carry a concealed handgun if they pass a training and marksmanship course. Training would not be required for a renewal of the permit to carry a firearm.
    I can find out. I have been involved in the Shall Issue for Iowa a little bit. Ill keep you posted.
    The only terrorists I see nowadays are at the Capital.


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  8. #8
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    Tucker6900 wrote:
    SNIP
    I can find out. I have been involved in the Shall Issue for Iowa a little bit. Ill keep you posted.
    Tucker, see update to my previous post.



  9. #9
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    Tucker6900 wrote:
    Venator,

    Please humor me. I understand any advice you give is not legal advice. Im well aware of the laws surround OC w/o a CPL (after all, I learned from the best ), but as far as non resident carry, Im a little rusty. Are you telling me that, as long as I follow the OC w/o a CPL rules, even as a non resident, I can legally OC?
    Michigan law states you must have your handgun registered in Michigan in order to possess it in Michigan. I don't know if your Michigan handgun registration would work as your handguns are still registered in Michigan. This is what the MSP said before the new law change farther below. I think you could possess them under that.

    NON-RESIDENTS



    Mr. Jeffs,
    Michigan law requires that a person obtain a License to Purchase a pistol (MCL 28.422) before possessing a pistol in this state. (You have done this) Once a person buys a pistol with a License to Purchase, it must be safety inspected (MCL 28.429). (You have done this) Only residents of Michigan are eligible for licenses and safety inspections. Because a non-resident cannot satisfy those requirements they cannot lawfully possess a pistol here (for any purpose). Exceptions to those requirements are found in MCL 28.432. One of those exceptions is for persons licensed by their state of residence to carry a concealed pistol.

    Sincerely, Sgt. Thomas Deasy, Michigan State PoliceExecutive Resource Section, 714 S. Harrison Rd. East Lansing, MI 48823 (517) 336-6441




    This new law is long and confusing, but look through it and see. You could also call Sgt. Deasy at the MSP and ask his opinion, tell him you have your guns registered in Michigan. I think your green card would be the license you would need to carry and present if challenged.


    FIREARMS (EXCERPT)
    Act 372 of 1927


    28.422 License to purchase, carry, possess, or transport pistol; issuance; qualifications; applications; sale of pistol; exemptions; nonresidents; basic pistol safety brochure; forging application; implementation during business hours.
    Sec. 2.

    (1) Except as otherwise provided in this section, a person shall not purchase, carry, possess, or transport a pistol in this state without first having obtained a license for the pistol as prescribed in this section.

    (2) A person who brings a pistol into this state who is on leave from active duty with the armed forces of the United States or who has been discharged from active duty with the armed forces of the United States shall obtain a license for the pistol within 30 days after his or her arrival in this state.

    (3) The commissioner or chief of police of a city, township, or village police department that issues licenses to purchase, carry, possess, or transport pistols, or his or her duly authorized deputy, or the sheriff or his or her duly authorized deputy, in the parts of a county not included within a city, township, or village having an organized police department, in discharging the duty to issue licenses shall with due speed and diligence issue licenses to purchase, carry, possess, or transport pistols to qualified applicants residing within the city, village, township, or county, as applicable unless he or she has probable cause to believe that the applicant would be a threat to himself or herself or to other individuals, or would commit an offense with the pistol that would violate a law of this or another state or of the United States. An applicant is qualified if all of the following circumstances exist:

    (a) The person is not subject to an order or disposition for which he or she has received notice and an opportunity for a hearing, and which was entered into the law enforcement information network pursuant to any of the following:

    (i) Section 464a(1) of the mental health code, 1974 PA 258, MCL 330.1464a.

    (ii) Section 5107 of the estates and protected individuals code, 1998 PA 386, MCL 700.5107, or section 444a of former 1978 PA 642.

    (iii) Section 2950(10) of the revised judicature act of 1961, 1961 PA 236, MCL 600.2950.

    (iv) Section 2950a(7) of the revised judicature act of 1961, 1961 PA 236, MCL 600.2950a.

    (v) Section 14 of 1846 RS 84, MCL 552.14.

    (vi) Section 6b(5) of chapter V of the code of criminal procedure, 1927 PA 175, MCL 765.6b, if the order has a condition imposed under section 6b(3) of chapter V of the code of criminal procedure, 1927 PA 175, MCL 765.6b.

    (vii) Section 16b(1) of chapter IX of the code of criminal procedure, 1927 PA 175, MCL 769.16b.

    (b) The person is 18 years of age or older or, if the seller is licensed under 18 USC 923, is 21 years of age or older.

    (c) The person is a citizen of the United States and is a legal [highlight= #88ffff]resident of this state. For the purposes of this section, a person shall be considered a legal [highlight= #88ffff]resident of this state if any of the following apply:

    (i) The person has a valid, lawfully obtained Michigan driver license issued under the Michigan vehicle code, 1949 PA 300, MCL 257.1 to 257.923, or an official state personal identification card issued under 1972 PA 222, MCL 28.291 to 28.300.

    (ii) The person is lawfully registered to vote in this state.

    (iii) The person is on active duty status with the United States armed forces and is stationed outside of this state, but the person's home of record is in this state.

    (iv) The person is on active duty status with the United States armed forces and is permanently stationed in this state, but the person's home of record is in another state.

    (d) A felony charge or a criminal charge listed in section 5b against the person is not pending at the time of application.

    (e) The person is not prohibited from possessing, using, transporting, selling, purchasing, carrying, shipping, receiving, or distributing a firearm under section 224f of the Michigan penal code, 1931 PA 328, MCL 750.224f.

    (f) The person has not been adjudged insane in this state or elsewhere unless he or she has been adjudged restored to sanity by court order.

    (g) The person is not under an order of involuntary commitment in an inpatient or outpatient setting due to mental illness.

    (h) The person has not been adjudged legally incapacitated in this state or elsewhere. This subdivision does not apply to a person who has had his or her legal capacity restored by order of the court.

    (i) The person correctly answers 70% or more of the questions on a basic pistol safety review questionnaire approved by the department of state police and provided to the individual free of charge by the licensing authority. If the person fails to correctly answer 70% or more of the questions on the basic pistol safety review questionnaire, the licensing authority shall inform the person of the questions he or she answered incorrectly and allow the person to attempt to complete another basic pistol safety review questionnaire. The person shall not be allowed to attempt to complete more than 2 basic pistol safety review questionnaires on any single day. The licensing authority shall allow the person to attempt to complete the questionnaire during normal business hours on the day the person applies for his or her license.

    (4) Applications for licenses under this section shall be signed by the applicant under oath upon forms provided by the director of the department of state police. Licenses to purchase, carry, possess, or transport pistols shall be executed in quadruplicate upon forms provided by the director of the department of state police and shall be signed by the licensing authority. Four copies of the license shall be delivered to the applicant by the licensing authority. A license is void unless used within 10 days after the date it is issued.

    (5) If an individual purchases or otherwise acquires a pistol, the seller shall fill out the license forms describing the pistol, together with the date of sale or acquisition, and sign his or her name in ink indicating that the pistol was sold to or otherwise acquired by the purchaser. The purchaser shall also sign his or her name in ink indicating the purchase or other acquisition of the pistol from the seller. The seller may retain a copy of the license as a record of the transaction. The purchaser shall receive 3 copies of the license. The purchaser shall return 2 copies of the license to the licensing authority within 10 days after the date the pistol is purchased or acquired. The return of the copies to the licensing authority may be made in person or may be made by first-class mail or certified mail sent within the 10-day period to the proper address of the licensing authority. A purchaser who fails to comply with the requirements of this subsection is responsible for a state civil infraction and may be fined not more than $250.00. If a purchaser is found responsible for a state civil infraction under this subsection, the court shall notify the department of state police of that determination.

    (6) Within 48 hours after receiving the license copies returned under subsection (5), the licensing authority shall forward 1 copy of the license to the department of state police. The licensing authority shall retain the other copy of the license as an official record for not less than 6 years. Within 10 days after receiving the license copies returned under subsection (5), the licensing authority shall electronically enter the information into the pistol entry database as required by the department of state police if it has the ability to electronically enter that information. If the licensing authority does not have that ability, the licensing authority shall provide that information to the department of state police in a manner otherwise required by the department of state police. Any licensing authority that provided pistol descriptions to the department of state police under former section 9 of this act shall continue to provide pistol descriptions to the department of state police under this subsection. The purchaser has the right to obtain a copy of the information placed in the pistol entry database under this subsection to verify the accuracy of that information. The licensing authority may charge a fee not to exceed $1.00 for the cost of providing the copy. The licensee may carry, use, possess, and transport the pistol for 30 days beginning on the date of purchase or acquisition only while he or she is in possession of his or her copy of the license. However, the person is not required to have the license in his or her possession while carrying, using, possessing, or transporting the pistol after this period.

    (7) This section does not apply to the purchase of pistols from wholesalers by dealers regularly engaged in the business of selling pistols at retail, or to the sale, barter, or exchange of pistols kept as relics or curios not made for modern ammunition or permanently deactivated. This section does not prevent the transfer of ownership of pistols that are inherited if the license to purchase is approved by the commissioner or chief of police, sheriff, or their authorized deputies, and signed by the personal representative of the estate or by the next of kin having authority to dispose of the pistol.

    (8) An individual who is not a [highlight= #88ffff]resident of this state is not required to obtain a license under this section if all of the following conditions apply:

    (a) The individual is licensed in his or her state of residence to purchase, carry, or transport a pistol.

    (b) The individual is in possession of the license described in subdivision (a).

    (c) The individual is the owner of the pistol he or she possesses, carries, or transports.

    (d) The individual possesses the pistol for a lawful purpose as that term is defined in section 231a of the Michigan penal code, 1931 PA 328, MCL 750.231a.

    (e) The individual is in this state for a period of 180 days or less and does not intend to establish residency in this state.

    (9) An individual who is a nonresident of this state shall present the license described in subsection (8)(a) upon the demand of a police officer. An individual who violates this subsection is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment for not more than 90 days or a fine of not more than $100.00, or both.

    (10) The licensing authority may require a person claiming active duty status with the United States armed forces to provide proof of 1 or both of the following:

    (a) The person's home of record.

    (b) Permanent active duty assignment in this state.

    (11) This section does not apply to a person who is younger than the age required under subsection (3)(b) and who possesses a pistol if all of the following conditions apply:

    (a) The person is not otherwise prohibited from possessing that pistol.

    (b) The person is at a recognized target range.

    (c) The person possesses the pistol for the purpose of target practice or instruction in the safe use of a pistol.

    (d) The person's parent or guardian is physically present and supervising the person.

    (e) The owner of the pistol is physically present.

    (12) This section does not apply to a person who possesses a pistol if all of the following conditions apply:

    (a) The person is not otherwise prohibited from possessing a pistol.

    (b) The person is at a recognized target range or shooting facility.

    (c) The person possesses the pistol for the purpose of target practice or instruction in the safe use of a pistol.

    (d) The owner of the pistol is physically present and supervising the use of the pistol.

    (13) The licensing authority shall provide a basic pistol safety brochure to each applicant for a license under this section before the applicant answers the basic pistol safety review questionnaire. A basic pistol safety brochure shall contain, but is not limited to providing, information on all of the following subjects:

    (a) Rules for safe handling and use of pistols.

    (b) Safe storage of pistols.

    (c) Nomenclature and description of various types of pistols.

    (d) The responsibilities of owning a pistol.

    (14) The basic pistol safety brochure shall be supplied in addition to the safety pamphlet required by section 9b.

    (15) The basic pistol safety brochure required in subsection (13) shall be produced by a national nonprofit membership organization that provides voluntary pistol safety programs that include training individuals in the safe handling and use of pistols.

    (16) A person who forges any matter on an application for a license under this section is guilty of a felony, punishable by imprisonment for not more than 4 years or a fine of not more than $2,000.00, or both.

    (17) A licensing authority shall implement this section during all of the licensing authority's normal business hours and shall set hours for implementation that allow an applicant to use the license within the time period set forth in subsection (4).

    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  10. #10
    Regular Member Taurus850CIA's Avatar
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    Does Iowa have a similar purchase permit requirement to Michigan? If so, it would seem that it would fit the bill nicely, as long as your stay here does not exceed the valid time frame of the permit... just a thought
    "Fault always lies in the same place, my fine babies: with him weak enough to lay blame." - Cort

    Gun control is like trying to reduce Drunk Driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars.

    Sentio aliquos togatos contra me conspirare.

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    1776"

    With freedom comes much responsibility. It is for this reason so many are loathe to exercise it.

  11. #11
    Regular Member Tucker6900's Avatar
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    I believe they do, but Im not sure its worth the trouble. Ill be in and out of Michigan in 3 days. Thanks for the information.

    I had a nice long talk with the Sheriff yesterday. Basically he said "I usually dont approve permits on the basis of Self Defense." He said he would give me one if I, for instance, was self employed and carried an amount of $500 or more at all times. Which for me, is not the case. And even if I did tell him that, then I would have to carry that much money with me. What a pain!!:X:X:X
    The only terrorists I see nowadays are at the Capital.


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  12. #12
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    Tucker6900 wrote:
    I believe they do, but Im not sure its worth the trouble. Ill be in and out of Michigan in 3 days. Thanks for the information.

    I had a nice long talk with the Sheriff yesterday. Basically he said "I usually dont approve permits on the basis of Self Defense." He said he would give me one if I, for instance, was self employed and carried an amount of $500 or more at all times. Which for me, is not the case. And even if I did tell him that, then I would have to carry that much money with me. What a pain!!:X:X:X
    If the Sheriff is going to use self employment and the ability--for very few--to carry that amount of cash with you on a daily basis as "weeders", why not make it easier for himself and base the approval process for a permit solely on the last name of applicants that begin with (X). :?

  13. #13
    Regular Member Tucker6900's Avatar
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    Exactly. It was extremely difficult to bite my tongue during the conversation. On the outside I was saying "Yes sir, I understand" On the inside, "ARE YOU F'ING KIDDING ME!!"
    The only terrorists I see nowadays are at the Capital.


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  14. #14
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    This is why I have rejected every job offer in Iowa. Every time I receive a call for an interview, I investigate the state gun laws, so many states are "off limits."

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