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Thread: 1 dead, one injured in Miami Burger King [CCW]shooting', MiamiHerald.com

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    http://www.miamiherald.com/news/brea...ry/965735.html
    One man was killed and another seriously wounded in a shootout inside a Miami Burger King on Tuesday, officials said.

    Police said a man wearing a ski mask walked into the store at Biscayne Boulevard and 54th Street and demanded money from a clerk.

    A customer, who has a concealed weapons permit, pulled a gun, said Officer Jeff Giordano, a Miami police spokesman.

    The customer and robber exchanged fire.

    The robber was shot dead at the scene.

    The customer, who had several gunshot wounds, was taken to Ryder Trauma Center in serious but stable condition, said Lt. Ignatius Carroll, a Miami Fire Rescue spokesman.

    At about 4 p.m., officials got several 911 calls reporting people shot inside the Burger King.

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    45ACP vs 9mm???




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    Regular Member DanM's Avatar
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    ImFromTheGovernmentAndImHereToHelp wrote:
    45ACP vs 9mm???
    More likely, tactical surprise and superior shot placement of multiple rounds. Caliber is of little consequence compared to those in a scenario such as this.
    "The principle of self-defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi . . ."--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr

    “He who cannot protect himself or his nearest and dearest or their honor by non-violently facing death, may and ought to do so by violently dealing with the oppressor. He who can do neither of the two is a burden.”--M. K. Gandhi

    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." --M. K. Gandhi

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    DanM wrote:
    ImFromTheGovernmentAndImHereToHelp wrote:
    45ACP vs 9mm???
    More likely, tactical surprise and superior shot placement of multiple rounds. Caliber is of little consequence compared to those in a scenario such as this.
    Way to get serious.

    If the concealed guy had tactical surprise and superior shot placement of multiple rounds how did the bg get so many rounds into him? just curious...

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    Interesting Citizens Comments at the bottom, just glad a stray did not meet its mark. The last thing this type of media coverage needs is to focus on collateral damage.

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    Scratch one Bandit



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    The article said (for what its worth, the media usually get's it wrong, competent that they are...not), the customer started argueing with the robber.

    I assume this means challenging him..repeatedly.

    Big mistake.

    One quick challenge and then bang..bang...bang...bang.

    I only say that because it sounds better, later in court. (you gave him a chance..which , depending on the situation, you may not have time to).

    If you are going to CC, then mentally practice what you are going to do in various scenarios.

    Practice rapid, accurate firing at the range from the concealed carry position.

    Know how you group at various ranges in rapid fire mode and use this to plan how you work the scenarios.

    You want to stop the bad guy quickly, without hitting anyone else including people (in cars) outside.

    Situational awareness improves with scenario training, realistic practice and everything changes in a real event so the more you can automate the process the better.

    If you don't, like this 'good guy', you will get hurt. Other people could as well.

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    In this situation, I'm going to do anything possible to let the guy walk out withBurger King's500 bucks. But, if I perceive even in the slightest bit that he's not going toleave anywitnesses, there certainly won't be any arguing.

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    Notso wrote:
    In this situation, I'm going to do anything possible to let the guy walk out withBurger King's500 bucks. But, if I perceive even in the slightest bit that he's not going toleave anywitnesses, there certainly won't be any arguing.
    +1.

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    BG has gun... gun is already pointed somewhere. GG engages in confrontational conversation? No. They do that in the movies... Gun in hand... Shoot BG. Money is secondary... BG will shoot for money... or even if he gets the money. Assume the worst.



    Shoot first, ask questions later.

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    marrandy wrote:
    One quick challenge and then bang..bang...bang...bang.
    Big mistake.

    Take cover, draw, take aim, pop pop, pop.

    No warnings or challenges of any kind. That sh!t only happens in Hollywood.

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    I know a lot of people say it's a bad idea to engage with the BG in any situation. Given that there were a lot of bystanders... I don't think arguing would be a good idea. Getting the BG to focus his attention on you, when you know you can drop him, is better than the BG focusing on someone else.

    If they were arguing, he was probably trying to convince the guy to GTFO without hurting anyone, or he was trying to mediate the situation without any gunfire.
    Gun control isn't about guns -- it is about control.

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    demnogis wrote:
    If they were arguing, he was probably trying to convince the guy to GTFO without hurting anyone, or he was trying to mediate the situation without any gunfire.
    I for one am not a trained police negotiator, but I can shoot relatively well.

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    I might give the BGONE chance to drop his weapon. If he hesitates, well, too bad. It's a non-negotiable proposition and my patience will be non-existant.

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    Task Force 16 wrote:
    I might give the BGONE chance to drop his weapon. If he hesitates, well, too bad. It's a non-negotiable proposition and my patience will be non-existant.
    The Seattle Times wrote:
    The man who was critically wounded during Sunday's shooting rampage at Tacoma Mall drew a pistol and confronted the gunman before he was cut down by gunfire, his family said Tuesday.

    Witnesses told McKown's family that he was shot after he pulled his own handgun during the shooting.
    That's an excerpt from an article about the Tacoma Mall shooting in WA State back in '05.

    If I have to draw my weapon, it'll do the talkin for me.

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    So does this incident not happen if the BG walks in and sees the GG carrying a pistol on his hip???
    "If you carry a gun, people will call you paranoid. That's ridiculous. If you have a gun, what in the hell do you have to be paranoid for." Clint Smith, Director of Thunder Ranch

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    Jblack44 wrote:
    So does this incident not happen if the BG walks in and sees the GG carrying a pistol on his hip?

    Hard to say. Perhaps it happens differently. Maybe the BG turns and leaves. Maybe the BG shoots GG. Maybe he shoots everyone.

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    buster81 wrote:
    Jblack44 wrote:
    So does this incident not happen if the BG walks in and sees the GG carrying a pistol on his hip?
    Hard to say. Perhaps it happens differently. Maybe the BG turns and leaves. Maybe the BG shoots GG. Maybe he shoots everyone.
    I disagree. I think the BG would immediately shoot the LAC OC-er, and then would proceed to wipe out everyone in the restaurant in a murderous rage. I mean we all know that OC-ing makes you a target, right? The media is reporting on these incidents every day, aren't they?

    /sarcasm (for those of you who might not have picked up on it)

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    mark edward marchiafava wrote:
    Snip...
    If he's drawn down on someone, game over for him. Give it your best shot, pun intended.
    BING! BING! BING! BING! Correct answer(with added proviso that shot/background is clear)!!!

    What is one of the main firearm safety rules? NEVER POINT AT SOMETHING YOU DON'T INTEND TO SHOOT. If bad guy/girl points his/her gun at someone... You must interpret that to mean they INTEND to shoot.

    If possible, don't let them. Someone's innocent life may depend on it.

    By the way, how do LEO's interpret someone pointing a gun at them? You know the answer.

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    ImFromTheGovernmentAndImHereToHelp wrote:
    45ACP vs 9mm???


    GG Used 9mm, guess someone forgot to tell the BG that a 9mm is not a man stopper. I'm positive that if he had known the GG was using the Glock 19, the BG would still be alive.

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    Remember guys justifiable homicide is different for each state.

    For example if this case were in Louisiana, justifiable homicide would have been sufficient.
    Louisiana RS 14:20

    §20. Justifiable homicide

    (2) When committed for the purpose of preventing a violent or forcible felony involving danger to life or of great bodily harm by one who reasonably believes that such an offense is about to be committed and that such action is necessary for its prevention. The circumstances must be sufficient to excite the fear of a reasonable person that there would be serious danger to his own life or person if he attempted to prevent the felony without the killing.

    (3) When committed against a person whom one reasonably believes to be likely to use any unlawful force against a person present in a dwelling or a place of business, or when committed against a person whom one reasonably believes is attempting to use any unlawful force against a person present in a motor vehicle as defined in R.S. 32:1(40), while committing or attempting to commit a burglary or robbery of such dwelling, business, or motor vehicle.

    And let's not forget that Louisiana has the "NO DUTY TO RETREAT".

    D. No finder of fact shall be permitted to consider the possibility of retreat as a factor in determining whether or not the person who used deadly force had a reasonable belief that deadly force was reasonable and apparently necessary to prevent a violent or forcible felony involving life or great bodily harm or to prevent the unlawful entry.

    Armed Robbery/Threatening to Kill/ = Justifiable Homicide in Louisiana.

    Any armed Louisiana citizen, dwelling inside that Burger King, could have taken proper aim, and put him down LEGALLY !









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    No if's, and's, or maybe's, Mozambique drill, no hey fella drop the gun, draw hopefully from cover, if not, but BAM BAM BAM. Stick a fork in him.
    ‘‘Laws that forbid the carrying of arms... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.’’ Thomas Jefferson

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    hlh wrote:
    I carry for personal protection, I'm not a policeman out to stopcrime.

    +1 Businesses are Insured, if the BG is only after the money and I am not in danger.


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    4armed Architect wrote:
    mark edward marchiafava wrote:
    Snip...
    If he's drawn down on someone, game over for him. Give it your best shot, pun intended.
    BING! BING! BING! BING! Correct answer(with added proviso that shot/background is clear)!!!

    What is one of the main firearm safety rules? NEVER POINT AT SOMETHING YOU DON'T INTEND TO SHOOT. If bad guy/girl points his/her gun at someone... You must interpret that to mean they INTEND to shoot.

    If possible, don't let them. Someone's innocent life may depend on it.

    By the way, how do LEO's interpret someone pointing a gun at them? You know the answer.
    +1,000,000

    Right from my Dad's mouth.Along with "never, ever, point a gun at human being. If you ever find you have to anyway, don't miss."

    Love ya Pop!

    Remember Peter Nap and Skidmark. Do them proud. Be active. Be well informed. ALL rights matter.

    "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when you may have to back up your acts with your life."

    --Robert A. Heinlein

    Hey NSA! *&$# you. Record this--- MOLON LABE!

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