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1 dead, one injured in Miami Burger King [CCW]shooting', MiamiHerald.com

Dahwg

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ImFromTheGovernmentAndImHereToHelp wrote:
45ACP vs 9mm???


:dude:

GG Used 9mm, guess someone forgot to tell the BG that a 9mm is not a man stopper. I'm positive that if he had known the GG was using the Glock 19, the BG would still be alive. :monkey
 

Dustin

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Remember guys justifiable homicide is different for each state.

For example if this case were in Louisiana, justifiable homicide would have been sufficient.
Louisiana RS 14:20

§20. Justifiable homicide

(2) When committed for the purpose of preventing a violent or forcible felony involving danger to life or of great bodily harm by one who reasonably believes that such an offense is about to be committed and that such action is necessary for its prevention. The circumstances must be sufficient to excite the fear of a reasonable person that there would be serious danger to his own life or person if he attempted to prevent the felony without the killing.

(3) When committed against a person whom one reasonably believes to be likely to use any unlawful force against a person present in a dwelling or a place of business, or when committed against a person whom one reasonably believes is attempting to use any unlawful force against a person present in a motor vehicle as defined in R.S. 32:1(40), while committing or attempting to commit a burglary or robbery of such dwelling, business, or motor vehicle.

And let's not forget that Louisiana has the "NO DUTY TO RETREAT".

D. No finder of fact shall be permitted to consider the possibility of retreat as a factor in determining whether or not the person who used deadly force had a reasonable belief that deadly force was reasonable and apparently necessary to prevent a violent or forcible felony involving life or great bodily harm or to prevent the unlawful entry.
Armed Robbery/Threatening to Kill/ = Justifiable Homicide in Louisiana.

Any armed Louisiana citizen, dwelling inside that Burger King, could have taken proper aim, and put him down LEGALLY !







 

KansasMustang

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No if's, and's, or maybe's, Mozambique drill, no hey fella drop the gun, draw hopefully from cover, if not, but BAM BAM BAM. Stick a fork in him.
 

bradco

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hlh wrote:
I carry for personal protection, I'm not a policeman out to stopcrime.


+1 Businesses are Insured, if the BG is only after the money and I am not in danger.
 

riverrat10k

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4armed Architect wrote:
mark edward marchiafava wrote:
Snip...
If he's drawn down on someone, game over for him. Give it your best shot, pun intended.
BING! BING! BING! BING! Correct answer(with added proviso that shot/background is clear)!!!

What is one of the main firearm safety rules? NEVER POINT AT SOMETHING YOU DON'T INTEND TO SHOOT. If bad guy/girl points his/her gun at someone... You must interpret that to mean they INTEND to shoot.

If possible, don't let them. Someone's innocent life may depend on it.

By the way, how do LEO's interpret someone pointing a gun at them? You know the answer.
+1,000,000

Right from my Dad's mouth.Along with "never, ever, point a gun at human being. If you ever find you have to anyway, don't miss."

Love ya Pop!
 

jarodm20

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I understand the idea of as little conflict as possible, but the fact is you don't know what the BG is going to do next. The way I see it, you can either wait and see what happens and hope and pray for the best, or, you can decide and stop this guy short.

I've often wondered, and hadn't decided I think until just now, how I would handle a fast food restaurant/gas station-stylerobbery. If you aim and tell him to drop it, how do you think he's going to respond? His adrenaline is pumping, just like yours, and he wants to be the one to run out of there when it's over. So, does he drop his gun? Or does he turn to you (instantly, mind you) and start shooting without hesitation? I would assume that someone who has already decided to go and rob a place with a gun, would be more than willing to kill a man who stood up to him.

I'm not a policeman either. I agree there are surely times when it would be better to just let thelow-life have his day. He might get caught later anyway, right? But if he's got a gun drawn on another human being, and I'm carrying that day (which I always am whereTexas law permits), then as far as I'm concerned, the BG has just decided his fate. I will NOT say a word or ask him to stop. I WILL put enough in him to end the threat. And I think it's worth whatever legal consequences you may face. I think the old standard line applies here: "It's better to be tried by twelve, than carried by six."
 

Ganghater

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Notso wrote:
In this situation, I'm going to do anything possible to let the guy walk out withBurger King's500 bucks. But, if I perceive even in the slightest bit that he's not going toleave anywitnesses, there certainly won't be any arguing.
I agree. I carry for protection. I'm not an LEO. Burger King can afford the loss in dollars but nobody can afford collateral damage.
 

Ganghater

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KansasMustang wrote:
No if's, and's, or maybe's, Mozambique drill, no hey fella drop the gun, draw hopefully from cover, if not, but BAM BAM BAM. Stick a fork in him.
I also wouldn't challenge the BG, but I would risk waiting to see him leave without shots fired. I do appreciate those of you bold enough, confident enough, to end it quickly and accurately. Maybe a little more practical shooting practice is what I need to join your ranks.
 

Task Force 16

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MetalChris wrote:
Task Force 16 wrote:
I might give the BGONE chance to drop his weapon. If he hesitates, well, too bad. It's a non-negotiable proposition and my patience will be non-existant.
The Seattle Times wrote:
The man who was critically wounded during Sunday's shooting rampage at Tacoma Mall drew a pistol and confronted the gunman before he was cut down by gunfire, his family said Tuesday.

Witnesses told McKown's family that he was shot after he pulled his own handgun during the shooting.

That's an excerpt from an article about the Tacoma Mall shooting in WA State back in '05.

If I have to draw my weapon, it'll do the talkin for me.

Sounds like a slightly different situation MetalChris. IN a scenarion like the Tacoma shooting, where the shooter has already opened fire, I'd give no warning before drilling the assailant.

As for the other situation, it would probably go down like this, "DROP BAM BAM IT! See, I said Iwould haveno patience.
 

arentol

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When I enter a restaurant I automatically figure out what a BG is most likely to do and decide what I would do in response, specifically where best to move to for cover and the best possible line of fire. I then re-evalute the situation constantly as people come and go, because avoiding innocents is a major part of choosing my cover and line of fire.

As for whether and when to fire... I live in Washington. In this state homicide is justified if in the presence of anyone in the commission of a felony. Armed robbery is a Class A felony. There would be no hesitation if he had a weapon out or gave the impression he had a weapon. I would wait until he was not looking my way then draw, move to my position, and fire without warning.

RCW 9A.16.050 Homicide — By other person — When justifiable.

Homicide is also justifiable when committed either:

(1) In the lawful defense of the slayer, or his or her husband, wife, parent, child, brother, or sister, or of any other person in his presence or company, when there is reasonable ground to apprehend a design on the part of the person slain to commit a felony or to do some great personal injury to the slayer or to any such person, and there is imminent danger of such design being accomplished; or

(2) In the actual resistance of an attempt to commit a felony upon the slayer, in his presence, or upon or in a dwelling, or other place of abode, in which he is.

Washington State is a REALLY bad place to commit felonies in the presence of an OC or CC citizen.

Of course I would not shoot someone committing a felony that wasn't a threat to me or someone else, but if they have a weapon out already then there is too much risk to me and those around me to take the time to give a warning. Though if I don't think I can safely end the situation, or that it would escalate too much by drawing I also would stand down. So it is all situational, but I use situational awareness as much as I can to ensure that the situation is in my favor whenever possible.
 

1FASTC4

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arentol wrote:
When I enter a restaurant I automatically figure out what a BG is most likely to do and decide what I would do in response


I try to figure out what I'm going to eat.
 

UTOC-45-44

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Doug Huffman wrote:
http://www.miamiherald.com/news/breaking-news/story/965735.html
One man was killed and another seriously wounded in a shootout inside a Miami Burger King on Tuesday, officials said.

Police said a man wearing a ski mask walked into the store at Biscayne Boulevard and 54th Street and demanded money from a clerk.

A customer, who has a concealed weapons permit, pulled a gun, said Officer Jeff Giordano, a Miami police spokesman.

The customer and robber exchanged fire.

The robber was shot dead at the scene.

The customer, who had several gunshot wounds, was taken to Ryder Trauma Center in serious but stable condition, said Lt. Ignatius Carroll, a Miami Fire Rescue spokesman.

At about 4 p.m., officials got several 911 calls reporting people shot inside the Burger King.

So what would be your FIRST line to the BG??



TJ
 

arentol

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1FASTC4 wrote:
arentol wrote:
When I enter a restaurant I automatically figure out what a BG is most likely to do and decide what I would do in response


I try to figure out what I'm going to eat.
Once you get used to doing it you only need about a 1/2 second to do it. It takes me MUCH longer to decide what to eat so using a 1/2 second of time for figuring this stuff out is hardly impacts my food decision process.
 

flintlock tom

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Haven't you guys learned anything from the comic books?!

Peter Parker (Spiderman) let the bad guy go and the BG goes up the street and kills Parker's uncle Ben.

You let the BG go and what if he goes and kills some one in the McDonald's up the street?
 

FunkTrooper

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flintlock tom wrote:
Haven't you guys learned anything from the comic books?!

Peter Parker (Spiderman) let the bad guy go and the BG goes up the street and kills Parker's uncle Ben.

You let the BG go and what if he goes and kills some one in the McDonald's up the street?
+1
If they pull there gun to intimidate someone in the commission of a felony I would drop them the moment the opportunity would arise.
 

MSC 45ACP

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BG points weapon at someone = same as pointing at you. You can defend yourself or someone else in imminent danger.

Shoot to stop, shoot until he stops. A few 185 gr Hydroshoks should do the trick. Oral Conversation not necessary. He chose to speak with his pistol, response should be in the same language, no misunderstandings or language barriers that way.
 

MetalChris

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MSC 45ACP wrote:
He chose to speak with his pistol, response should be in the same language, no misunderstandings or language barriers that way.
+1

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacoma_Mall_shooting
During the course of the shooting, Brandon (Dan) McKown, a legally armed citizen, intervened. McKown drew his 9mm CZ pistol, and verbally commanded Maldonado to put down his gun. Maldonado's response was to fire on McKown, striking him once in the leg and four times in the torso, damaging McKown's spine and leaving him paralyzed

That's what happens when you go all Hollywood and speak from your mouth instead of letting your gun do the talking.
 
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