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Thread: As a matter of introduction...

  1. #1
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    This may be a tad long, forgive me.



    I stumbled upon this forum a few weeks back as I was researching concealed weapons permits, etc and have found it to be extremely helpful. Since that timeI have purchased a pistol (Glock 23) which is my second (I also have a Colt Series 70 1911), taken the CPL course and applied for my CPL. At this point I plan onCCing, although I have to say that the attitudes of not only some LEOs but a number of those in the "gun community" can really get my blood boiling and have given me some pause about my decision. (I will still carry, but havegiven more consideration toOCing).

    I should probably clarify that last statement as I know a number of LEOsand totally support them. They have an extremely difficult job and I applaud them for putting their lives on the line for the sake of the community. However, the attitude that can often accompany them in their work has always aggravated me to no end. I have had personal experience (non-firearms related), watchedvideos, listened to audiocasts and readnewspaper and after-action statements regarding the interaction of LEOs with those who are OCingand acting as if they have no RIGHT to OC (i.e. Bear arms). People are detained for lengthy periods while the officers conference with one another in order to come up with something to warn the individual about prior to allowing them to go free instead of simply stating the obvious, "We apologize for detaining you. It was our mistake." All this to save a little face.

    Further, I was in a local gun shop last week and got into a lengthy discussion about the right to OC in Michigan. I had three of the store employees and a customer telling me that while I may have the right to OCthat I had better not do it unless I was prepared to spend $1,000 on attorney fees in order to get myself out of trouble. My reply was simply that if I have a RIGHT to openly carry a firearm, then there cannot be a law that contradicts my RIGHT to openly carry said firearm. Response? "The police can do whatever they want to do. They can put you in jail for three days WITHOUT a reason." I stood my ground but still being a little wet behind the ears, wasn't sure exactly what evidence to retort with. (I did go back into the same shop the next day and handed them the color brochure/pamphlet from this site and believe that I won a convert as he was gone for a very long time while reading the information and when he came back his tune was substantially different). I digress.

    My irritation with the gun shop employees (who are genuinely good people, I must say) is with their attitude which is similar to that of most of our citizenry today. That is to live in fear of the repurcussions of taking LEGITIMATE action, or exercising legitimate rights, specifically the open-carry of a firearm. My friends, this should not be! In fact, I believe that those employed by the government should take extra caution as to not INFRINGE upon the rights of the citizenry, be it 2nd Amendment rights or any other right inumerated to us by our Constitution.

    These frustrations have provoked in me the support of not only this forum, but the support of those who exercise their right to openly bear their firearm in public. I would also like to thank those of you who have taken the time necessary to research the firearms law, post it on the forum in a very understandable manner and taken the liberty of excercising your rights. I have learned a great deal in my short time on the forum. Thank you.

    -David


  2. #2
    Regular Member WARCHILD's Avatar
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    Welcome David to OCDO: You seem to understand the OC problems we face and relate this well in your post. There is an abundance of info on this site and I hope it is useful in understanding your rights to carry.
    Jerry

  3. #3
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    Welcome David, as the national open carry motto is "A right no exercised is a right lost" We either stand up and speak truth to authority or we are sheep. The government should fear the people, the people should not fear the government.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  4. #4
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    Thanks for the welcome, fellas. Lots of good reading so far...

  5. #5
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    Welcome to OCDO, Dave.

    Funny how an open carry forum keeps coming up as a useful site for folks researching concealed carry. I'm not complaining. Just sayin'.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  6. #6
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    Citizen wrote:
    Welcome to OCDO, Dave.

    Funny how an open carry forum keeps coming up as a useful site for folks researching concealed carry. I'm not complaining. Just sayin'.
    I hear ya. I was probably searching, "Michigan concealed carry," and the search picked up the two words leading me to this forum. FWIW, I'm not complainin' either.

  7. #7
    Regular Member dougwg's Avatar
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    Welcome to the darkside.

  8. #8
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    David in MI wrote:
    SNIPI would also like to thank those of you who have taken the time necessary to research the firearms law, post it on the forum in a very understandable manner and taken the liberty of excercising your rights. I have learned a great deal in my short time on the forum. Thank you.

    -David
    Ahhhhh! Warms the heart to read those words.

    Plus it lets me get in one of my all time favorite quotes.

    Perhaps you have heard of the fella who said that all it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing. EdmundBurke. He was an 18th century member of parliament. Prior to the revolution, when things weregetting heated between England and the colonies, Burke made a speech in parliament trying to persuadea reconciliation with the colonies. Here is an excerpt. I'll leave it to readers to make the connection between the speech and the quote above.

    Permit me, Sir, to add another circumstance in our colonies, which contributes no mean part towards the growth and effect of this untractable spirit. I mean their education. In no country perhaps in the world is the law so general a study...all who read, and most do read, endeavour to obtain some smattering in that science...

    ...This study renders men acute, inquisitive, dexterous, prompt in attack, ready in defence, full of resources...

    ...In other countries, the people, more simple, and of a less mercurial cast, judge of an ill principle in government only by an actual grievance; here they anticipate the evil, and judge of the pressure of the grievance by the badness of the principle. They augur misgovernment at a distance; and snuff the approach of tyranny in every tainted breeze.

    http://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/found...s/v1ch1s2.html
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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