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Thread: Why you should open carry!

  1. #1
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    I have been asking my sister to go to the shooting range with me
    since I bought my handgun. My other sister has already been twice
    and enjoys learning proper handling of a firearm. (I think I am going
    to get her a 9mm for her birthday)
    R's been wanting to go but hasn't had the time. We have been really
    busy working on her new house.
    I worry it is her and my niece and though they are two houses down they
    are still two women alone in the house.

    Things changed yesterday. My cousins have noticed a
    guy riding around our neighborhood on a bike
    slowly looking at houses.

    The same man went over to my sisters house yesterday evening and lucky she
    had her security door looked. He told her that his sister
    used to live in the house and he left something there and wanted to
    get it out of the back bathroom would she let him in.
    Of course she said NO!!! He asked her to look under the sink there
    was something stuck way back under there.
    She watched him he thought she had left he couldn't see through the
    security door...... HE TRIED TO OPEN THE DOOR!!!!!
    She pretended to go to the room but called my dad. She told the man
    there was nothing there.
    By the time my dad was near the guy took off on the bike. I hurried over
    there once I realized what was going on.

    We searched for him but couldn't find him. I think he
    will be back. My sister will be prepared next time.

    She decided to go shooting with me Sunday.

    Please be careful. Times are tough and there are alot of crack heads
    out there and people that are down on their luck....


    G

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    At what point did she call Police? I would hope that she did. This guy may have tried the same with someone else, or may do the same or worse to another person. Calling the Police may have resulted in him being identified as a suspect in a past crime. If not; at least he would have been identified if these same circumstances happened again. The Police would know who to question.

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    CaCop wrote:
    At what point did she call Police? I would hope that she did. This guy may have tried the same with someone else, or may do the same or worse to another person. Calling the Police may have resulted in him being identified as a suspect in a past crime. If not; at least he would have been identified if these same circumstances happened again. The Police would know who to question.
    +1

    The cops can't do their job if they don't know what's going on. Also, if your sister does have to defend herself against this guy, having a police report of this incident will go far in her defense.
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  4. #4
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    CaCop wrote:
    At what point did she call Police? I would hope that she did. This guy may have tried the same with someone else, or may do the same or worse to another person. Calling the Police may have resulted in him being identified as a suspect in a past crime. If not; at least he would have been identified if these same circumstances happened again. The Police would know who to question.
    No offense CaCop but my experience in calling 911 has been less than fantastic. Had to call them twice living where I am now and both times got the blow off from the dispatcher. And neither situation did they send an officer to my house or even to the neighborhood. First time was for a gunshot outside our apartment (15 year old daughter) saw the muzzle flash outside her window. Second time was for an armed guy trying to jack neighbors mortorized cart and a car. (got put on hold for 20 minutes on that call). Only time we seemed to get help from an officer is when we FLAGGED one down on the guy trying to gain access to the complex. They never did find the guy and found out two weeks later he was a sexual offender.

    And mind you I am from a law enforcement family. Even was going to go in to the field myself before I wound up with a spinal injury.

    guitar I hope your sister gets in lots of practice. I can't remember the exact source but something to the effect your only a 1/3 effective as you are on the range in a real life situation. I would also make sure your niece knows how to use the gun if needed. Also make sure she knows to NOT open the door to a stranger no matter WHAT they may say.

    We live in a gated complex mind you and have had issues with "bad elements" being in the complex grounds. I have no qualms in protecting myself if someone tries to break in to my house.

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    KylaGWolf wrote:
    CaCop wrote:
    At what point did she call Police? I would hope that she did. This guy may have tried the same with someone else, or may do the same or worse to another person. Calling the Police may have resulted in him being identified as a suspect in a past crime. If not; at least he would have been identified if these same circumstances happened again. The Police would know who to question.
    No offense CaCop but my experience in calling 911 has been less than fantastic. Had to call them twice living where I am now and both times got the blow off from the dispatcher. And neither situation did they send an officer to my house or even to the neighborhood. First time was for a gunshot outside our apartment (15 year old daughter) saw the muzzle flash outside her window. Second time was for an armed guy trying to jack neighbors mortorized cart and a car. (got put on hold for 20 minutes on that call). Only time we seemed to get help from an officer is when we FLAGGED one down on the guy trying to gain access to the complex. They never did find the guy and found out two weeks later he was a sexual offender.

    And mind you I am from a law enforcement family. Even was going to go in to the field myself before I wound up with a spinal injury.

    guitar I hope your sister gets in lots of practice. I can't remember the exact source but something to the effect your only a 1/3 effective as you are on the range in a real life situation. I would also make sure your niece knows how to use the gun if needed. Also make sure she knows to NOT open the door to a stranger no matter WHAT they may say.

    We live in a gated complex mind you and have had issues with "bad elements" being in the complex grounds. I have no qualms in protecting myself if someone tries to break in to my house.
    I don't mean to call you a liar, but unless you live in Sun-gala, Africa or some other third world country, an officer will always respond to the calls you mentioned. The first call, assuming you actually saw a gun fired, would result in multiple officers responding and, contacting you. The second call, a grand theft and GTA in progress, would have the same results. You say that they didn't respond to your home, or even your neighborhood. I'm sorry but this story is either made up or the facts have been exaggerated.

    Most, if not all, departments these days have "shall respond" policies. This means that every call, no matter how small, requires an officer to respond, unless the reporting party cancels their request. Some times it takes a while, but just like in an ER, everything is handled by priority. I have heard that some very large Sheriff's Departments may not respond to SPECIFIC calls in extremely remote areas. Some larger departments also will ask you to come to the station to make a report for things such as identity theft or other non priority calls. Your story does not fit into either of these types of calls.

    If you need the Police, CALL THEM. Remember that we can't help you if we don't know that you need help.






  6. #6
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Always call the Police even if you don't think it will do any good. If not just for the fact that it provides a record if you ever have to defend yourself in court for actions you felt necessary to take.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    the last time i had to load my weapon due to gang members blocking the street in front of me and to the side. flashing gang signs and walking towards me. had my phone on speaker called local dispatch. 3 unit response in under 3 minutes. but in those three minutes i waited, which isnt long, i was ready to defend myself.



    and one thing you do not tell dispatch is that you are armed...it is confusing for the dispatcher to relay.....trust me....the officers dont get the right story.

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    CaCop wrote:
    I don't mean to call you a liar, but unless you live in Sun-gala, Africa or some other third world country, an officer will always respond to the calls you mentioned. The first call, assuming you actually saw a gun fired, would result in multiple officers responding and, contacting you. The second call, a grand theft and GTA in progress, would have the same results. You say that they didn't respond to your home, or even your neighborhood. I'm sorry but this story is either made up or the facts have been exaggerated.

    Most, if not all, departments these days have "shall respond" policies. This means that every call, no matter how small, requires an officer to respond, unless the reporting party cancels their request. Some times it takes a while, but just like in an ER, everything is handled by priority. I have heard that some very large Sheriff's Departments may not respond to SPECIFIC calls in extremely remote areas. Some larger departments also will ask you to come to the station to make a report for things such as identity theft or other non priority calls. Your story does not fit into either of these types of calls.

    If you need the Police, CALL THEM. Remember that we can't help you if we don't know that you need help.
    I don't mean to call you a liar, but... just because you've never experienced it certainly doesn't mean it never happens. I agree that you should call anyhow, but your assertion that this type of disregard for public safety doesn't exist is wrong. I've been in two situations where the police refused to respond to violent felonies - both in Stockton, CA.

    Situation 1: 25-30 known gang members fighting in an apartment complex playground (and adjacent common areas). I was working on-site security with along side an armed guard (I was unarmed at the time).

    Called 9-1-1 immediately when the fight broke out. After about 5 minutes, there were a couple people down, getting kicked and curb stomped. One guy had a superficial knife wound, but was bleeding pretty good. During the 20-minute melee, we called 9-1-1 three times to give updates and make sure our call didn't get dropped.

    Two officers showed up more than 90 minutes later (almost two hours after our initial 9-1-1 call). They pulled up, sarcastically asked, "so where's this big fight you're talking about?" We told them they missed it, and started giving them descriptions of the guy with the knife, as well as his victim and the license plate number of the car the victim left in (who had been lying unconscious, but was hauled off by his friends). The officer behind the wheel cut us off, saying it seemed like the problem was resolved, then they left. They spent all of two minutes on site, and didn't even take out a notepad.

    My co-worker filed a formal complaint, and found out that the officers had reported the to dispatch twice that they drove by and couldn't find us, so the call was canceled. GPS on the car turned up the fact they hadn't. We were told that the officers would be reassigned - taken off the worst beat in the city as punishment for their dereliction of duty and false reporting to their dispatcher.

    Situation 2: Working security at a Quinceanera (Latina 15th birthday - a very big deal in Mexican culture). County laws require 1 guard per 100 guests. The host paid for 3 guards, so she was limited to 300 guests. When the party reached capacity, we shut the main gate and started turning people away. Some of the people outside didn't like this, and most had come from far away.

    Two men approached and forced open the gate, saying they were from LA and that they were going inside no matter what. I pulled my baton, took up a defensive stance, and instructed my co-worker to call 9-1-1 and start relaying info on the situation. He was told by the 9-1-1 dispatcher that we could expect a delay, as they were having a busy night. The two guys approached a couple paces, then both pulled knives. I talked my way out of the situation, backing down and allowing the 50-plus mob outside the gate come in to the party.

    I got my two co-workers to a safe spot on site and called 9-1-1 again. The dispatcher told me that they were short-handed, and have a 2-hour backlog of calls. I called the San Joaquin Sherriff's Office directly (we were literally 50 feet outside of Stockton PD jurisdiction), and advised that dispatcher directly of the problem. I got the same story. The Sgt. on duty took my call, and reiterated their backlog. I explained my situation, and he said, "well there's too many people there for us to go into that building to look for those 2 guys. If you don't feel safe there, just leave." He explained that they had too big of a backlog and were too short-handed to respond to anything but felonies in progress. I was offered that I could come down to the station in the morning to have them take a report, but pointed out that the guys would most likely be returning to LA before they could investigate anything.

    (This incident is what prompted me to purchase my first handgun, and to get my BSIS guard firearm permit.)


    The fact is that the cops don't always respond, and some of them flat-out just don't give a damn. I believe these are few and far between, but to say they don't exist and calling someone a liar when they claim it does is just wrong.
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    About 10 years ago my brother-in-law and sister-in-law came home from an afternoon movie with my children to find a burglary in progress in their house. the bg's confronted them when they drove into the driveway. they called 911 and not only was there no response, but no one even bothered to come out to take a report at all.
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    Clearly you are all dialing the wrong number...(Obligatory Simpson's reference):

    Code:
    Homer: Jealous?
    Lenny: Well...no, we've got the same chair.
    Homer: [smug] You're jealous.
    Lenny: Your membership pack.  [hands it to him]
    Homer: [pulls out a decal] What's this?
    Lenny: You put that sticker on your car so you won't get any tickets.
    And this other one keeps paramedics from stealing your wallet
    while they're working on you.
    Carl: Oh, and don't bother calling 911 any more...here's the _real_
    number.  [hands him a card with "912"]
    Homer: Ooh!

  11. #11
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    oilfieldtrash11 wrote:

    and one thing you do not tell dispatch is that you are armed...it is confusing for the dispatcher to relay.....trust me....the officers dont get the right story.

    I would disagree with that if you have your weapon out, just make sure you give dispatcha a good discription of yourself. I had a situation were I had a shotgun in my hand because I felt threatened by our community associations security. Dispatch asked if there were weapons invovled, when I made the 911 callI said yes I am holding a 12 gauge shotgun. She expediated my call and Sherrif's deputy arrived very quickly. And I was cleared of any wrong doing.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  12. #12
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    sudden valley gunner wrote:
    oilfieldtrash11 wrote:

    and one thing you do not tell dispatch is that you are armed...it is confusing for the dispatcher to relay.....trust me....the officers dont get the right story.
    I would disagree with that if you have your weapon out, just make sure you give dispatcha a good discription of yourself. I had a situation were I had a shotgun in my hand because I felt threatened by our community associations security. Dispatch asked if there were weapons invovled, when I made the 911 callI said yes I am holding a 12 gauge shotgun. She expediated my call and Sherrif's deputy arrived very quickly. And I was cleared of any wrong doing.
    If for some reason I couldn't holster or stow my gun before interacting with the responding officer(s), I would let dispatch know so they don't mistake me as the BG. Otherwise, the officers don't need to know about the gun, a detail that may distract them from the task at hand. In either situation, it's certainly prudent to give the dispatcher a good description of yourself so the cops know who they're talking to when they show up.
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  13. #13
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    the only time i would tell dispatch i was armed is if they asked. i just dont see it to be a big deal and would rather them treat it as if it is not a big deal. it confuses officers about who the BG is and if i draw my weapon i will not be the bad guy. it is just more likely to lead to a false arrest or confusion and i would rather not be taken to the ground and detained because the officers were confused about who the badguy is.because you will be the one in handcuffs and they will be the ones giving a statement. not the situation i am looking for. dispatchers are not usually the best people to relay information and will make their own judgements and decide what they feel like saying and at least around here that is a well known fact in the LEO community in Yolo county.

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