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Thread: Kensington Metro Park anyone?

  1. #1
    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    UPDATE:

    I propose we meet at the very first parking lot past the entrance at about noon, to make sure no one gets confused and can't find the group. Then, if we want to go elsewhere, we can do so easily. I found a map, and paint brushed in an arrow pointing at the vicinity of where the parking lot is.








    The original version of this map can be seen here: http://www.metroparks.com/global/kensington_map.php

    This idea was somewhat stolen off of Jerry's Hopkins Lake outing, and I'm not ashamed of it one bit. :P

    Kensington is nice, you can swim, you can walk on trails, you can ride bikes, you can fish, you can have BBQ's, or you can even buy food they sell there. The only things you can't do are mountain biking, target shooting, and hunting, gotta go across the street to Island Lake for that.

    I propose that we meet up at Kensington on may 3. Hopefully by then, the weather will be perfect for picnics, frisbies, and other fun warm weather stuff. But I'm happy to change the date if it doesn't work out for a lot of people.

    It's easy to get to, it's not too far east of US 23 on I96. To an extent, this makes it centralized between Lansing, Ann Arbor, Flint, and Detroit. You get off at the Kensington road exit, go north for a very short distance, and you'll see the entrance. The thing is though, it's a huge park, and there are dozens of great places we could meet up in. If there is sufficient interest, I'll figure out a good spot, and directions for how to get there, or someone else could suggest a spot too.

    One possibility, if we want to save money on the 4 dollar vehicle admission fees and/or gas, is to meet up at other place(s), and carpool in.

    http://www.metroparks.com/parks/pk_kensington.php

    Who's going?


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    Michigander wrote:
    This idea was somewhat stolen off of Jerry's Hopkins Lake outing, and I'm not ashamed of it one bit. :P

    Kensington is nice, you can swim, you can walk on trails, you can ride bikes, you can fish, you can have BBQ's, or you can even buy food they sell there. The only things you can't do are mountain biking, target shooting, and hunting, gotta go across the street to Island Lake for that.

    I propose that we meet up at Kensington on may 3. Hopefully by then, the weather will be perfect for picnics, frisbies, and other fun warm weather stuff. But I'm happy to change the date if it doesn't work out for a lot of people.

    It's easy to get to, it's not too far east of US 23 on I96. To an extent, this makes it centralized between Lansing, Ann Arbor, Flint, and Detroit. You get off at the Kensington road exit, go north for a very short distance, and you'll see the entrance. The thing is though, it's a huge park, and there are dozens of great places we could meet up in. If there is sufficient interest, I'll figure out a good spot, and directions for how to get there, or someone else could suggest a spot too.

    One possibility, if we want to save money on the 4 dollar vehicle admission fees and/or gas, is to meet up at other place(s), and carpool in.

    http://www.metroparks.com/parks/pk_kensington.php

    Who's going?

    I'm interested, but I think this was tried before and many didn't want to pay to get into the park. Perhaps that has changed. It's a good central location.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    Like I was sayin', it's 4 bucks per car. If we car pool from our various localities, we could probably all get in for a dollar each, or less, plus gas. Plus, there are places right nearby that we could park in, and drive in together if we wanted. Shouldn't be too hard to save money on that.
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    Here is the map in case anyone is interested in attending:

    Link:MAP

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    Regular Member tygereye's Avatar
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    Sounds good,count me in!!! I can celebrate the semester being over!! :celebrate

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    wont be in town

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    I might be there...MOUNTAIN BIKE IN TOW!!!!!!!!!!!! :celebrate


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    Swimming? Anyone else have this vision? :what:


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    ISMOID wrote:
    Swimming? Anyone else have this vision? :what:



    You're going to need a bigger bullet

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    Regular Member Taurus850CIA's Avatar
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    ISMOID wrote:
    Swimming? Anyone else have this vision? :what:

    Good to know I can shoot my Hi-Point under water...
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    If you plan to attend, please remember to include in your post what items you will contibute for the picnic, if any. See Event Thread.

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    Lots of comments on MGO about OC and CC in these parks. http://www.migunowners.org/forum/showthread.php?t=43562

    They feel that since it's an autority and not a government preemption may not apply. They state that the Chief of police said concealed only with a CPL. But their rules say. To me it looks like all lawful carry is allowed. We shall see.

    1. FIREARMS AND OTHER WEAPONS- No person shall possess or control any rifle, shotgun or other firearm, bow and arrow, slingshot, pellet gun, air rifle, fireworks, explosives, or other dangerous substances within the boundaries of any park, without written permission of the Authority; provided, that this rule shall not apply to any law enforcement officer who has been duly appointed by the government of the United States, the State of Michigan or any county, municipality other political subdivision of the State of Michigan; and provided, further that this section shall not prohibit a person from legally carrying firearms in accordance with state law, including transporting an unloaded shotgun in a case within the boundaries of Lake Erie or Metro Beach Metropark for the purpose of using Lake Erie or Metro Beach Metropark as access to a permitted hunting area.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    It seems fairly simple to me. Even if they had some extra rights as an authority, (I'm not real sure what that means) their own rule says you can carry firearms in accordance with state law. I see no reason why we wouldn't be good to go.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

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    Venator wrote:
    Lots of comments on MGO about OC and CC in these parks. http://www.migunowners.org/forum/showthread.php?t=43562

    They feel that since it's an autority and not a government preemption may not apply. They state that the Chief of police said concealed only with a CPL. But their rules say. To me it looks like all lawful carry is allowed. We shall see.

    1. FIREARMS AND OTHER WEAPONS- No person shall possess or control any rifle, shotgun or other firearm, bow and arrow, slingshot, pellet gun, air rifle, fireworks, explosives, or other dangerous substances within the boundaries of any park, without written permission of the Authority; provided, that this rule shall not apply to any law enforcement officer who has been duly appointed by the government of the United States, the State of Michigan or any county, municipality other political subdivision of the State of Michigan; and provided, further that this section shall not prohibit a person from legally carrying firearms in accordance with state law, including transporting an unloaded shotgun in a case within the boundaries of Lake Erie or Metro Beach Metropark for the purpose of using Lake Erie or Metro Beach Metropark as access to a permitted hunting area.
    Brian, I think you're correct that preemption would not apply with the MetroParks. It appears that the park system is run much like MSU, UofM & WSU. See below:

    The Huron-Clinton Metroparks system is a regional park system in Metro Detroit in the U.S. state of Michigan. The park system includes 13 parks totalling 24,000acres (97km2) arranged along the Huron River and Clinton River forming a partial ring around the metro area. Plans are in development to finish the ring by building hike/bike trails to connect all the parks as a green belt. The parks draw about 9.5 million visitors a year. The rivers are prime fishing and canoeing streams with Delhi Metropark including a short rapids, which while runnable, is the only point on either stream normally portaged.

    The park district encompasses Wayne, Oakland, Macomb, Washtenaw and Livingston counties. The park system was authorized in 1939 and funding began in 1942 with local property taxes providing for most of the budget. Additional funding comes from vehicle admission fees and fees for golf, boat launching, bike and boat rentals, swimming pools and other activities. The Huron-Clinton Metropolitan Authority (HCMA) is the body that administers the Metropark system and is governed by a seven-member Board of Commissioners. Two members are selected by the state governor and the other five members are selected, one from each of the five member counties. The Metropark system exists independent from other park systems in the area which ibotnclude city, township, county and state parks. There is a proposal to develop the Michigan State Fairgrounds into a metropark.[1][/suP]

    (emphasis added)

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huron-Clinton_Metroparks


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    Michigander wrote:
    It seems fairly simple to me. Even if they had some extra rights as an authority, (I'm not real sure what that means) their own rule says you can carry firearms in accordance with state law. I see no reason why we wouldn't be good to go.
    I concur, BUT based on a poster that claims to have talked to the Chief of the parks PD, the Chief said only a CPL holder and only concealed. Which seems to contradict the rule.

    SO I'M MORE interested in having a get together in a metro-park than ever, so keep planning one Michigander, as long as it's on a Sunday or a Saturday that I don't have the talk show I'm in. Damn the $4 entry fee.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    SpringerXDacp wrote:
    Venator wrote:
    Lots of comments on MGO about OC and CC in these parks. http://www.migunowners.org/forum/showthread.php?t=43562

    They feel that since it's an autority and not a government preemption may not apply. They state that the Chief of police said concealed only with a CPL. But their rules say. To me it looks like all lawful carry is allowed. We shall see.

    1. FIREARMS AND OTHER WEAPONS- No person shall possess or control any rifle, shotgun or other firearm, bow and arrow, slingshot, pellet gun, air rifle, fireworks, explosives, or other dangerous substances within the boundaries of any park, without written permission of the Authority; provided, that this rule shall not apply to any law enforcement officer who has been duly appointed by the government of the United States, the State of Michigan or any county, municipality other political subdivision of the State of Michigan; and provided, further that this section shall not prohibit a person from legally carrying firearms in accordance with state law, including transporting an unloaded shotgun in a case within the boundaries of Lake Erie or Metro Beach Metropark for the purpose of using Lake Erie or Metro Beach Metropark as access to a permitted hunting area.
    Brian, I think you're correct that preemption would not apply with the MetroParks. It appears that the park system is run much like MSU, UofM & WSU. See below:

    The Huron-Clinton Metroparks system is a regional park system in Metro Detroit in the U.S. state of Michigan. The park system includes 13 parks totalling 24,000acres (97km2) arranged along the Huron River and Clinton River forming a partial ring around the metro area. Plans are in development to finish the ring by building hike/bike trails to connect all the parks as a green belt. The parks draw about 9.5 million visitors a year. The rivers are prime fishing and canoeing streams with Delhi Metropark including a short rapids, which while runnable, is the only point on either stream normally portaged.

    The park district encompasses Wayne, Oakland, Macomb, Washtenaw and Livingston counties. The park system was authorized in 1939 and funding began in 1942 with local property taxes providing for most of the budget. Additional funding comes from vehicle admission fees and fees for golf, boat launching, bike and boat rentals, swimming pools and other activities. The Huron-Clinton Metropolitan Authority (HCMA) is the body that administers the Metropark system and is governed by a seven-member Board of Commissioners. Two members are selected by the state governor and the other five members are selected, one from each of the five member counties. The Metropark system exists independent from other park systems in the area which ibotnclude city, township, county and state parks. There is a proposal to develop the Michigan State Fairgrounds into a metropark.[1][/suP]

    (emphasis added)

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huron-Clinton_Metroparks

    That is the argument they have used, but the rules say you can carry in accordance with state law, ergo., OC is legal. We need to test this.

    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    Well, I for one don't feel like getting prosecuted.

    Again, it seems to me like it's allowed, based on their own rule. Everyone who legally owns a handgun in Michigan is technically licensed to carry it, so state law would be indisputably followed.

    Whether preemption applies or not, is there theoretically any rule we'd be breaking with this picnic?
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

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    Michigander wrote:
    Well, I for one don't feel like getting prosecuted.

    Again, it seems to me like it's allowed, based on their own rule. Everyone who legally owns a handgun in Michigan is technically licensed to carry it, so state law would be indisputably followed.

    Whether preemption applies or not, is there theoretically any rule we'd be breaking with this picnic?
    None that I can think of. Based on their rules from their website it clearly states they follow state law. But I'm not an attorney and as you know you can be arrested for anything. People can still come and if they don't want to OC that's fine. I will be OCing but I have a CPL for whatever that's worth.

    If we have any interaction with the police and they concede that OC without a CPL is allowed you guys can then strap it on.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    Regular Member Taurus850CIA's Avatar
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    I'd be up for this, and I told a friend in that area about it. He's also interested.
    "Fault always lies in the same place, my fine babies: with him weak enough to lay blame." - Cort

    Gun control is like trying to reduce Drunk Driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars.

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    This was posted on MGO. Again this is a post and no verification of what the Chief did or did not say. I have emailed him for clarification and will post any response. If the below is true I find his comment that they have their own police force and that makes if a CEZ funny. I would still like to have an OC picnic there.

    Interesting conversation with Chief Phifer


    I had an interesting phone conversation with Chief Phifer today. He told me there were different kinds of CCWs that were issued by the state. I told him I didn’t not have a CCW, I have a CPL. His take was, ‘same thing’. Not wanting to appear confrontational I let that go. He then told me that unless the ‘exempt from pistol free zones’ box was checked I could not carry in a Metropark. I asked what his basis was for saying a Metropark was a ‘pistol free zone’. His response was, they have their own police that will respond to any situation that arises. That confused me, as I’m not aware of anything that says you can’t carry because there is a police force. When pressed he kept repeating that.

    I also mentioned that former Chief Chanter said concealed carry was okay in Metroparks. He responded (and I’m paraphrasing) that Howard is a good guy. We have a difference of opinion on this.

    We went back and forth for a bit and bottom line was he told me, (again I’m paraphrasing) we follow Michigan law, you carry in a Metropark you will be arrested.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  21. #21
    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    Venator wrote:
    We went back and forth for a bit and bottom line was he told me, (again I’m paraphrasing) we follow Michigan law, you carry in a Metropark you will be arrested.
    I seriously hope he has something more intelligent than that to say when he emails you.
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    chief phifer at the metro park has a boss some where. whether a county commissioner, some one this chief has to report to. i think it would be a good idea to call on him/her

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    i was able to get some info on kensington metropark from my state rep. i can contact them my self or i can forword the info to any of you and see if we can get a more under standing person to talk to.

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    This was posted on the MGO site. The chief seems to concede that CC is legal with a CPL, but no mention of OC. Since he states he follows state law and cites the concealed carry law that leads me to believe that OC is okay. So we should proceed with an OC picnic in one of the parks. Below is from the Chief of Police for the Metro-parks.



    The State law does cite the requirements for carrying a Concealed Weapon.
    Our department follows the State Law requirements.
    I have attached a copy of the State of Michigan Law regarding CCW.

    Here is the statue on this law: MICHIGAN PENAL CODE (EXCERPT)
    Act 328 of 1931
    ***This was an attachment, but I’m including it here so you can see what it says.***
    750.227 Concealed weapons; carrying; penalty.
    Sec. 227.
    (1) A person shall not carry a dagger, dirk, stiletto, a double-edged nonfolding stabbing instrument of any length, or any other dangerous weapon, except a hunting knife adapted and carried as such, concealed on or about his or her person, or whether concealed or otherwise in any vehicle operated or occupied by the person, except in his or her dwelling house, place of business or on other land possessed by the person.
    (2) A person shall not carry a pistol concealed on or about his or her person, or, whether concealed or otherwise, in a vehicle operated or occupied by the person, except in his or her dwelling house, place of business, or on other land possessed by the person, without a license to carry the pistol as provided by law and if licensed, shall not carry the pistol in a place or manner inconsistent with any restrictions upon such license.
    (3) A person who violates this section is guilty of a felony, punishable by imprisonment for not more than 5 years, or by a fine of not more than $2,500.00.
    Let me know if you have any additional questions.

    Thank you,

    George Phifer,

    Chief of Police

    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  25. #25
    Regular Member LaVere's Avatar
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    The State law does cite the requirements for carrying a Concealed Weapon.
    Our department follows the State Law requirements.
    I have attached a copy of the State of Michigan Law regarding CCW.

    Here is the statue on this law: MICHIGAN PENAL CODE (EXCERPT)
    Act 328 of 1931
    ***This was an attachment, but I’m including it here so you can see what it says.***
    750.227 Concealed weapons; carrying; penalty.
    Sec. 227.
    (1) A person shall not carry a dagger, dirk, stiletto, a double-edged nonfolding stabbing instrument of any length, or any other dangerous weapon, except a hunting knife adapted and carried as such, concealed on or about his or her person, or whether concealed or otherwise in any vehicle operated or occupied by the person, except in his or her dwelling house, place of business or on other land possessed by the person.
    (2) A person shall not carry a pistol concealed on or about his or her person, or, whether concealed or otherwise, in a vehicle operated or occupied by the person, except in his or her dwelling house, place of business, or on other land possessed by the person, without a license to carry the pistol as provided by law and if licensed, shall not carry the pistol in a place or manner inconsistent with any restrictions upon such license.
    (3) A person who violates this section is guilty of a felony, punishable by imprisonment for not more than 5 years, or by a fine of not more than $2,500.00.
    Let me know if you have any additional questions.

    Thank you,

    George Phifer,

    Chief of Police



    Who in the heck can understand this political legalize double talk.

    Just make it. Right to carry anyplace, any time, anyway you choose to best fit your safety needs.


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