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Knife Carry Laws

timf343

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Anyone know whether the same definition of concealed applies? "discernible by ordinary observation" and carried upon your person.

In other words, is a knife in a tool box "concealed" per the definition?

I assume the gun law preemption does not also preempt knife laws?
 

Felid`Maximus

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The preemption laws specifically mention firearms, so localities can regulate any other type of weapon.

202.350 is the same law that applies for all concealed weapons, so the definition of concealed would be the same.

That one case, Knight vs. Nevada made it sound like ordinary objects are only considered weapons if they have reason to believe they are carried for that purpose. But I'm no lawyer and am not an expert on knife laws.
 

CoonDawg

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Knife length laws have never made any sense to me whatsoever. Whether I stab someone with a 3-inch Bowie knife or run them through with a 48" inch Bastard sword, are they any less dead? Same with guns. Whether I shoot them with a 10-gauge or a 9MM, odds are it's going to hurt like hell.

I've carried a Leatherman (a real original one, not the wussy ones that come with saws and forks and microwaves) in my pocket almost every single day since I was 11 years old, and that thing is a life-saver. I've never once thought about the legality of it. I cannot fathom to imagine being arrested for carrying it around a Wal-mart.

It's a sad day for the world when you can't even carry a multi-tool without fear of spending a night in jail and ruining your future career aspirations...
 

varminter22

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Well said, CoonDawg.

It is too late for any legislation this year.

But perhaps we should push for more sensible knife laws in 2011.

Frankly, I'm guilty (like many) of not paying much attention to knife laws. But this subject is worthy of bringing to the legislature.

Are there no groups out there that could honcho an effort to reform our law??
 

bongo

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Your leatherman has a blade less than 3 inches. Ialso have an original, it is a great little tool. They won't let you on an airplane with one anymore, but I doubt any LEO would arrest you for one unless you had it open and were swinging it around.
 

varminter22

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bongo wrote:
....but I doubt any LEO would arrest you for one unless you had it open and were swinging it around.

I agree.

But the point is thus: A lot of good, law-abiding people carry a utilitarian pocket knife with a blade longer than 3".

Instead of making everyone a criminal - yet telling us they won't prosecute good people that don't use knives in a criminal manner, why not reform the law and then simply prosecute the criminal use of knives???

I carry a leatherman frequently, especially at work. And I also carry a small pocket knife with a blade less than 3". AndI use knives for hunting, etc.

Other than that, I'm not much of a "knife guy" - meaning I am not into fighting knives.

But I would agree that our current knife law is too restrictive.

I'm sure law enforcement was tell us they only want restrictive laws to use against the bad guys. Well, damn, isn't it already a crime to use knives (or any other tools) to commit crimes?? Why must good citizens be made criminals (by statute) for carrying a simple pocket knife with a 4" blade?
 

timf343

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Varminter-

I do agree that the laws are too restrictive, however, I think there is logic in LE's point of view. And that is, when evidence is lacking against a bad guy, such restrictive laws can be used to detain/arrest a suspect while sufficient evidence of a real crime is obtained.

Consider a convicted violent offender who is released after serving his time. While he's "paid his debt to society", he may still be a threat to that society. Locking up a bad guy (who is in fact a threat) for a year on a law such as this does in fact protect society.

On the other hand, while I want to see bad guys off the streets as much as any other law abiding citizen, I don't agree with that logic. Absent probable cause, a bad guy should have as many rights as anyone else. Restrictive knife and gun laws can be used to circumvent those rights.

Despite the fact that I don't agree with this tactic, I think it's the reason LE lobbies hard to keep these laws, and why most of the public supports it.

Tim
 

varminter22

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Understand.

But, geez, a 3" blade limit? I know plenty of common folks that carry pocket knives with 3.5" and 4" blades.

And there is a difference between convicted violent offenders and the rest of us. Consider that felons are not allowed to even touch a firearm. Could it not be the same for knives with blades over 3"?

Gov't could (and does) pass laws that make virtually everyone a "criminal"- then they say "But we won't prosecute good guys." That could become dangerous.

Again, I'm not a "fighting knife" carrier - at least not in the sense of those that study and practice the art. Using the logic above, I could very easily say "This doesn't affect me." But does it?

Interesting topic. Thanks for the replies and discussion.
 

Felid`Maximus

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timf343 wrote:
Varminter-

I do agree that the laws are too restrictive, however, I think there is logic in LE's point of view.  And that is, when evidence is lacking against a bad guy, such restrictive laws can be used to detain/arrest a suspect while sufficient evidence of a real crime is obtained.

Wasn't that how they originally justified the National Firearms Act? Now it mainly just serves to prosecute regular people who thought it'd be fun to stick a buttstock on their pistol and didn't think it was a federal felony offense that would land them 10-15 years in prison with a fee of $10,000-$110,000. (One count of violating NFA, one count of not paying tax, possibly.)
 

BhmBill

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Holy s**t you guys.

So I called LVMPD Concealed Weapons Detail at 702-828-3996. I asked what I had to do to obtain a concealed weapons permit specifically for a knife with a blade over 3" because NRS 202.350, CCC 12.04.180, and LVMC 10.68.020 all say the sheriff (or his "designee") can give you one. They told me to hold because they do not issue permits for knives. After holding for 5 mins or so, they come back and say the same thing again, "We don't issue permits to carry knives concealed". Then I was transferred and put on hold again. A lady came on and I explained again what I was trying to do, she said the same thing "We don't issue permits for knives". She gave me the number for the Sheriffs Office. I called the Sheriffs Office and explained again what I was trying to do, and they said "I haven't heard of this before... We don't issue permits for knives. Let me transfer you". So, I was put on hold again and transferred to the SAME PLACE I HAD CALLED THE FIRST TIME. I was talkin to the same lady again and she said she'd be right back, so I was put on hold. After 6 or 7 minutes she comes back and says "A permit was issued a loooong time ago through the ATF. You may want to call them". I was absolutely floored... why the hell would the ATF issue a concealed knife permit? So I asked for the ATF's phone number (just incase it had an extension or something. I already had their number), they of course... do not know the ATF's phone number. So I called the ATF... the lady was like "Why would we issue a permit for KNIVES?", I told her "I have NO idea, it's a Nevada, County, and Municipal thing". I told her I was just getting the run around and didn't know what to do, she suggested I just go to a police sub station and try to find out more info in person. She was very nice and seemed just as confused as I was with Metro and the Sheriff.

Sooooo... One of these days i'll head down to the PD and see what they say about it.

Jesus.
 

bongo

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What I got from reading the law is that they can issue a permit for a dealer's type license, which would allow simple posession (such as knives at home or in your business) and allow you to sell, buy, and collect (the selling would be limited to persons such as LEOs or Military personel). I don't think the law/permit/license is designed for personal carry.
 

BhmBill

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Refer to my previous post (I belive 2 posts prior to this one)

I was at the LV Blvd police station friday evening getting a new pistol registered (CZ52 in 7.62x25) and I asked about getting a concealed knife permit. They of course, had never heard of this. I cited NRS 202.350, CCC 12.04.180, and LV Municipal Code 10.68.020.

Of course, they couldn't figure it out and were like headless chickens over the whole thing, they told me to call the CCW detail at Metro, i refused because they just sent me in circles when I had called them a few days before, so they gave me directions to the place where you get fingerprinting done and get your sheriffs cards and stuff and thought maybe they could help me, but they were closed until monday.

Saturday I was getting another pistol registered to my girlfriend (S&W 908S 9mm) at the station on West Cheyenne and the 215. The lady who was doin the registration was very apt to the handgun laws and gave me alot of info on how how I might obtain a CCW for a knife. She gave me a complaint letter for the sheriff and said she'd see what she could find out about and she'd give me a call today or tomorrow.

So, i'm making some ground on how to get a knife CCW and will keep pushing to get an answer.
 

chrsjhnsn

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several times in Reno I had contact with police and have been searched etc.
never any trouble with my neck knife fix blade, 3 inch blade or my cold steel grand vaquero with a 7 inch blade!
 

Felid`Maximus

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I know you're not supposed to ask cops what the law is, but in the case of UNR I was asking around to try and figure out the campus weapons policy. (The campus has a student code of conduct, which is distinct from the laws.) I didn't want to be expelled for the police not liking my knives. When I asked if my winchester knife (pictured above) would violate the school weapons policy the commander told me that it would be considered to be a dagger which he said was illegal at the university per NRS 202.265.

Whether the courts would agree that a 2.5" single edged fixed blade knife with no hilt was a dagger I do not know, but in the case of the University I surely wouldn't want to be arrested for it because dagger or not they might be able to administer academic penalties even with no criminal penalty.

The student handbook at UNR specifies that
Knowing possession on any premises of the system of any firearms, explosives, dangerous chemicals or other instruments of destruction, or other dangerous weapons as defined by the laws of the state of Nevada, without the written authorization of the president of any system institution or the president’s authorized agent, unless such possession reasonably relates to duly recognized system functions by appropriate members of the faculty, other
employees or students.
Considering that the state laws often only specify "dangerous or deadly weapon" in many laws and I don't have much faith in the student judicial process, I was interested in seeking their opinions to see how the officials would react.
 

Lord Vader

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Do any of you carry a knife while you OC? And if you do, how long is the blade?

I used to carry a knife (or two :)) everywhere I went. Now that I am starting to OC, and after looking through these ridiculous knife laws, I'm starting to think it might not be a good idea to carry a knife while OCing.
 

Felid`Maximus

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A lot of times I carry that 2.5" blade Winchester knife on my left side when I OC, but only if I've had time to look up local ordinances because they aren't preempted by the state like the gun laws are supposed to be.

At least state law allows you to carry openly most weapons.

Many people carry a wide variety of pocket knives concealed in their pockets with no worries as to whether they might be legal in various places. I make an effort not to carry anything that could be construed as illegal while OC'ing because there is a higher probability of being detained for no good reason and searched.
 

bongo

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Lord Vader wrote:
Do any of you carry a knife while you OC? And if you do, how long is the blade?

I used to carry a knife (or two :)) everywhere I went. Now that I am starting to OC, and after looking through these ridiculous knife laws, I'm starting to think it might not be a good idea to carry a knife while OCing.
What do you mean by OC? Is that open carry?
 

Felid`Maximus

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bongo wrote:
Lord Vader wrote:
Do any of you carry a knife while you OC? And if you do, how long is the blade?

I used to carry a knife (or two :)) everywhere I went. Now that I am starting to OC, and after looking through these ridiculous knife laws, I'm starting to think it might not be a good idea to carry a knife while OCing.
What do you mean by OC? Is that open carry?

Yep.
 

Lord Vader

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I normally carry a Remington TAC series folder, that is less than 3". Now that I OC though, I think I'll start leaving that at home. I also carry a Leatherman Juice, which has a knife on it, so I'll just stick with that while I OC. I'll take the chance with a multi-tool. Maybe in the feature we can get a preemption law for all weapons, or at least knives.

What do you mean by OC? Is that open carry?

Yes, I meant open carry. Sorry about the acronyms and the late response.
 
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