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Thread: New Press on HB 228

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    Compromise being worked out on gun bill

    Mar 27, 3:55 PM EDT


    By MATT GOURAS
    Associated Press Writer

    Story Link

    HELENA, Mont. (AP) -- A compromise on a bill aimed at expanding gun rights and getting rid of the need for concealed weapons permits is advancing in the state Senate.

    House Bill 228 has been the subject of a tough fight between police groups and gun groups such as the National Rifle Association. But the interest groups sat down again with lawmakers Friday morning to hammer out some details the legislation.

    The compromise still allows people to use a gun in self-defense without first fleeing. Sen. Dan McGee, the Billings Republican leading a legislative subcommittee making the changes, said that is means people can more easily use deadly force on home intruders.

    "You can say, 'that's it, you're terminated.' Boom!" McGee told the full Senate Judiciary Committee on Friday in presenting the compromise bill.

    Prosecutors worry such a provision would let people gun down someone for simply being drunk and disorderly.

    The full panel is scheduled to vote on it Monday, where it is expected to be approved with perhaps a few more changes before getting a full Senate vote on Tuesday or Wednesday. It has already cleared the House, but that chamber will have to review any changes made in the Senate.

    The Senate compromise version would still exempt people from the requirement of a permit for carrying a concealed weapon in town - although it now clarifies that felons could not do so. It would also keep the current permitting system in place for those who voluntarily want one in order to carry a gun in other states that recognize Montana's permits.

    A provision that would allow people to brandish a gun if they feel threatened is being modified at the request of police, who say it would be dangerous to have citizens try to defuse conflicts by pointing guns at each other.

    The university system has resisted the bill, saying it interferes with their restrictions about guns on campuses.

    McGee said the bill does not prevent the Board of Regents, given constitutional authority over the college system, from setting its own rules - as long as they don't impede on gun rights.

    "But they have to do it in a constitutionally acceptable manner or they will be challenged and they will lose," he said.

    The Montana Shooting Sports Association, integral in drafting the legislation, said it will be supporting the bill and indicated the National Rifle Association would as well.

    And police groups said they would likely drop their opposition to the measure.

    But prosecutors still have concerns.

    The Montana attorney general's office said it worries about potential misuse of the "brandishing" provision. And it told lawmakers that it prefers the current conceal carry permit law.

    "The right to conceal carry is not a constitutional right, it's a right granted by the Legislature," said Ali Bovingdon, assistant attorney general.

    The NRA has put a big push on the bill, and has said it will be a crucial part of the scorecard very important to elected officials in Montana.


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    Regular Member MT GUNNY's Avatar
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    That dont sound to bad. I just hope its not Gutted any more!

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    Regular Member 40s-and-wfan's Avatar
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    MT GUNNY wrote:
    That dont sound to bad. I just hope its not Gutted any more!
    Yeah no kidding! They've changed it enough already, it doesn't need anymore changes or provisions!!
    In a crisis you don't rise to the occasion, but rather default to your level of training.

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    Each time the opposition from the LEO community to the brandishing part has been a killer for it. If that gets lifted, then there is a good chance we might finally get it passed.

    I do not like the current CCW permit system, and would love to see this passed.

    -CZ

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    Regular Member MT GUNNY's Avatar
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    Here is the Text as Amended buy the Senate Judiciary :

    http://data.opi.mt.gov/bills/2009/billhtml/HB0228.htm

    I'm having a Hard time Understanding the change that allows CC without a Permit!

    It was easy to find in the Previous Version.

    Notice they added a New area that one Cant CC in, Health Care Facility !

    Maybe we should Email the Reps, We had in MT a Situation Where a gunman Entered a Health Care Facility and Shot a Killed a Nurse. Like this law Would have stoped him....


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    Regular Member 40s-and-wfan's Avatar
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    It is harder to find the part that allows for concealed carry without the permit but I think it's still there! Looks to me like they switched the wording around but I think I can find it!! I sure hope they don't change things around more than what's already been done!!
    In a crisis you don't rise to the occasion, but rather default to your level of training.

    Forgiveness is between them and God. It's my job to arrange the meeting.
    -John W. Creasy (Man on Fire)

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    MT GUNNY wrote:
    Here is the Text as Amended buy the Senate Judiciary :

    http://data.opi.mt.gov/bills/2009/billhtml/HB0228.htm

    I'm having a Hard time Understanding the change that allows CC without a Permit!

    It was easy to find in the Previous Version.

    Notice they added a New area that one Cant CC in, Health Care Facility !

    Maybe we should Email the Reps, We had in MT a Situation Where a gunman Entered a Health Care Facility and Shot a Killed a Nurse. Like this law Would have stoped him....

    The gunman did not, I repeat did not enter a health care facilitiy, as everything happened in the parking lot at the hospital in Glasgow, Mt. But your right they need to strike that from the HB228.


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    This article says the part about no permit to conceal was taken out!!!! I think im going to be sick...

    Someone tell me this is wrong! I will be so mad if this is true because we were so close to Constituional Carry.

    http://www.kpax.com/Global/story.asp?S=10105429

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    Regular Member 40s-and-wfan's Avatar
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    Okay, this makes me a little hot under the collar. There needs to be a letter drafted that we can all sign collectively and send it to them before the next reading stating that we want that provision re-inserted back in the bill. Sounds like something we should work on this Thursday!!
    I would be willing to stand outside someplace like Snappy's or Sportsman's and collect signatures if I figured it would help!!
    In a crisis you don't rise to the occasion, but rather default to your level of training.

    Forgiveness is between them and God. It's my job to arrange the meeting.
    -John W. Creasy (Man on Fire)

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    Regular Member MT GUNNY's Avatar
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    Ive already sent out Emails !!!

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    Regular Member 40s-and-wfan's Avatar
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    MT GUNNY wrote:
    Ive already sent out Emails !!!
    As have I. I only hope it does some good! Feel free to read the text of the letter below! Remember, it's based on my opinion and comes from my background and my heart, so to speak! This is a subject of which I am extremely passionate about and will not stand idly by while it's ripped away by people who are supposed to be representing me and my ideals!!


    In a crisis you don't rise to the occasion, but rather default to your level of training.

    Forgiveness is between them and God. It's my job to arrange the meeting.
    -John W. Creasy (Man on Fire)

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    None too happy here that the stripped the AK/VT carry and added the part of no CCW in a medical facility/office!!!



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    Is there a chance that on the Third Reading it could be re-added or perhaps when the House and Senate get together to hash out the differences it could be brought back to life?

    Maybe people should contact their House members that will be taking part in that process to try to convince the Senate to bring back Constitutional Carry.

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    Regular Member 40s-and-wfan's Avatar
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    Just got a reply: "Thanks for your interest. The legislature is a compromise process." Talk about a p*ss-poor response!! It's a compromise between them as to what they feel is within our best interest, not what we the people feel might be within our best interest!! I'm beginning to wonder if electing these officials is actually doing any good?! They seem to be doing what's best to line their pocket rather than to make this a better place for us to live and work!!
    In a crisis you don't rise to the occasion, but rather default to your level of training.

    Forgiveness is between them and God. It's my job to arrange the meeting.
    -John W. Creasy (Man on Fire)

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    Regular Member MT GUNNY's Avatar
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    I had a Compromise Response also. It seems there was a Major Compromise Situation during the Reading. At least we will get something. Keep in mind that the last time a Castle Doctrine Type Bill went through the State Legislature It never made it Through. So this time we may Gain that and Loose the CCp Thing. During the Next session I'm shure Gary Marbut will Introduce it again with better Wording, and we just might get Lucky. That being said, yes its Possible that if enough Emails go out it could get Put back in with Different words.

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    All I can say is, there you go again! Give a bunch of attorneys or legislatures a simple concept and by the time they are finished you need to hire ten law firms to figure out what they've done. In this case however, its very apparent that they have succumbed to the "feel good" syndrome. Not wanting to offend anyone but at the same time screwing everyone. So what else is new? Shall we discuss term limits to vote the bums outautomatically?

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    Regular Member 40s-and-wfan's Avatar
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    TripleTap wrote:
    Shall we discuss term limits to vote the bums out automatically?
    MT GUNNY and I were discussing this very idea last night!! This is one thing they will not vote on themselves. It would mean the End of an Error for a lot of them!!

    By the way, welcome TripleTap
    In a crisis you don't rise to the occasion, but rather default to your level of training.

    Forgiveness is between them and God. It's my job to arrange the meeting.
    -John W. Creasy (Man on Fire)

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    http://thehighroad.us/showthread.php?t=408130

    There is more all over there in Activism - THR.us not the .org site.

    I wish that we had the Alaska type of carry and ALL of these restrictions would be lifted. Flushed down the toilet of NO return! NO permit for jack squat. Open and conceal carry - everywhere... EVERYWHERE!

    The one good man last year or months ago (?) saved lives when he STOPPED - SHOT the criminal shooter from killing/harming more people at the one hospital in another part of Montana. The killer shooter was OUTSIDE of the hospital taking shots. Most of you already know the story.

    Catherine


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    TripleTap wrote:


    All I can say is, there you go again! Give a bunch of attorneys or legislatures a simple concept and by the time they are finished you need to hire ten law firms to figure out what they've done. In this case however, its very apparent that they have succumbed to the "feel good" syndrome. Not wanting to offend anyone but at the same time screwing everyone. So what else is new? Shall we discuss term limits to vote the bums outautomatically?
    Bingo!

    Same old - same old dung.

    Catherine

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    So what are the chances the House will fight the ban on medical facilities and bring back the no permit clause?

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    Regular Member 40s-and-wfan's Avatar
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    None to non-existent!!

    In a crisis you don't rise to the occasion, but rather default to your level of training.

    Forgiveness is between them and God. It's my job to arrange the meeting.
    -John W. Creasy (Man on Fire)

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    on the web page it says



    (H) 2nd Reading Senate Amendments Not Concurred
    04/03/2009
    73 yea to 27 nay

    what does that mean? I am not sure, does not concurred mean that the House rejected the amendments?

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    Regular Member 40s-and-wfan's Avatar
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    Probably means they're gonna draw this process out even longer and make more changes to it so we get screwed over more!!
    In a crisis you don't rise to the occasion, but rather default to your level of training.

    Forgiveness is between them and God. It's my job to arrange the meeting.
    -John W. Creasy (Man on Fire)

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    Well MT, Krayton Kerns got 90% of what he wanted in HB 228 and he said he will introduce a bill to bring about Constitutional Carry when they come back in 2011...

    The good news is that the conference committee took out the provision banning weapons in medical facilities! See phone calls can make a differenece.

    http://www.greatfallstribune.com/art...EWS01/90407016

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    Regular Member MT GUNNY's Avatar
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    Cant Wait

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