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Thread: City of Deer Park

  1. #1
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    Well, I couldn't sleep last night so I was surfin the web and putting my time to good use researching. Looked up the city code for Deer Park. Are you ready for a good one?

    http://nt5.scbbs.com/cgi-bin/om_isap...#JUMPDEST_9.12

    9.12.010Exemption from state statutes.
    The jurisdiction of the city is and shall be exempt from the prohibition set forth in RCW 9.41.050(4) as presently enacted and as may be hereafter modified or recodified. This exemption is enacted pursuant to RCW 9.41.050(6). (Ord. 652 § 1, 1994)

    9.12.020Weapons/firearms prohibited.

    A.As set forth in RCW 9.41.300, weapons are prohibited in certain places as designated by the laws of the state and cities. The city council deems it unlawful for any person to enter the Deer Park City Hall/Municipal Building located at E 316 Crawford when he or she knowingly possesses or knowingly has under his or her control a weapon/firearm. This shall apply but not be limited to the perimeter of these premises.

    B.These premises shall be posted at reasonable intervals to alert the public of the existence of any law restricting the use or possession of weapons/firearms on the premises. (Ord. 712 § 2, 1998)


  2. #2
    Regular Member jbone's Avatar
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    [size=][/size]Clear case of another out of control City Council. They have done a nice job of twisting the content of 9.41.300. I would get the letter drafted up and sent. Their ordinance is a violation in itself, its clear they know about preemption and have ignored it in order to control those who don’t know the truth.


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    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    partyncwby wrote:
    The city council deems it unlawful for any person to enter the Deer Park City Hall/Municipal Building located at E 316 Crawford when he or she knowingly possesses or knowingly has under his or her control a weapon/firearm. This shall apply but not be limited to the perimeter of these premises.

    So here is a question (which may be a silly question but not being extremely conversant in WA statutes the question seems reasonable to me):
    Since the above language in essence states that this violation of preemption and the subsequent enforcement is simply based on the opinion of the city council, if someone were arrested for such a violation does this open up every city council member for a 1983 suit as such an arrest was, per code, is made solely on their opinion?
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    The jurisdiction of the city is and shall be exempt from the prohibition set forth in RCW
    RCW 9.41.050(4) as presently enacted and as may be hereafter modified or recodified. This exemption is enacted pursuant to RCW 9.41.050(6). (Ord. 652 § 1, 1994)





    RCW 9.41.050Carrying firearms.

    (4) Nothing in this section permits the possession of firearms illegal to possess under state or federal law.
    WTF are they smoking over there? What prohibition are they allegedly exempt from? And where is this RCW 9.41.050 (6) they refer to?

    As to the banning of firearms in the municipal building, if there's court rooms there then they may probably have the ability. If not, well then....

  5. #5
    Regular Member jbone's Avatar
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    What am I missing something here? Wheredoes anything Deer park cite from 050 actually show up in 050, Deer Park is off their rocker!Nothing they wrote is accurate, binding or legal.

    RCW 9.41.050 Carrying firearms.

    (1)(a) Except in the person's place of abode or fixed place of business, a person shall not carry a pistol concealed on his or her person without a license to carry a concealed pistol.

    (b) Every licensee shall have his or her concealed pistol license in his or her immediate possession at all times that he or she is required by this section to have a concealed pistol license and shall display the same upon demand to any police officer or to any other person when and if required by law to do so. Any violation of this subsection (1)(b) shall be a class 1 civil infraction under chapter
    7.80 RCW and shall be punished accordingly pursuant to chapter 7.80 RCW and the infraction rules for courts of limited jurisdiction.

    (2)(a) A person shall not carry or place a loaded pistol in any vehicle unless the person has a license to carry a concealed pistol and: (i) The pistol is on the licensee's person, (ii) the licensee is within the vehicle at all times that the pistol is there, or (iii) the licensee is away from the vehicle and the pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle.

    (b) A violation of this subsection is a misdemeanor.

    (3)(a) A person at least eighteen years of age who is in possession of an unloaded pistol shall not leave the unloaded pistol in a vehicle unless the unloaded pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle.

    (b) A violation of this subsection is a misdemeanor.

    (4) Nothing in this section permits the possession of firearms illegal to possess under state or federal law.

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    Right you are Jbone. What they are trying to do is exempt themselves from the prohibition of .050 subsection 4. They are saying that they are allowed to possess firearms that are illegal to possess under state or federal statue.

    Basically the city thinks it can own and possess anything they want.
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

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    Regular Member jbone's Avatar
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    joeroket wrote:
    Right you are Jbone. What they are trying to do is exempt themselves from the prohibition of .050 subsection 4. They are saying that they are allowed to possess firearms that are illegal to possess under state or federal statue.

    Basically the city thinks it can own and possess anything they want.

    I've been surfing the net like mad trying to find a good link to the city Government, no luck. Although I live some distance I wanted to be one of many I hope to send an email to the Council or City Attorney.

    This has to be the craziest and most misdirected ordinance I have seen in my short OC time.
    Edit: so far only found this: mayor@ci.deerpark.wa.us




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    Regular Member Gene Beasley's Avatar
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    I ran across a few of these same references with other cities. I think you have to go back to the way RCW 9.41.050 appeared in 1994 when this ordinance was written. Note that in the current version, there is no section (6).

    From 1994 sp.s. c 7 § 405:

    Sec. 405. RCW 9.41.050 and 1982 1st ex.s. c 47 s 3 are each amended to read as follows:
    (1) Except in the person's place of abode or fixed place of business, a person shall not carry a pistol concealed on his or her person without a license to carry a concealed ((weapon)) pistol.
    (2) ((A person who is in possession of an unloaded pistol shall not leave the unloaded pistol in a vehicle unless the unloaded pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle.
    (3))) A person shall not carry or place a loaded pistol in any vehicle unless the person has a license to carry a concealed ((weapon)) pistol and: (a) The pistol is on the licensee's person, (b) the licensee is within the vehicle at all times that the pistol is there, or (c) the licensee is away from the vehicle and the pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle.
    (3) A person at least eighteen years of age who is in possession of an unloaded pistol shall not leave the unloaded pistol in a vehicle unless the unloaded pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle.
    (4) Except as otherwise provided in this chapter, no person may carry a firearm unless it is unloaded and enclosed in an opaque case or secure wrapper or the person is:
    (a) Licensed under RCW 9.41.070 to carry a concealed pistol;
    (b) In attendance at a hunter's safety course or a firearms safety course;
    (c) Engaging in practice in the use of a firearm or target shooting at an established range authorized by the governing body of the jurisdiction in which such range is located or any other area where the discharge of a firearm is not prohibited;
    (d) Engaging in an organized competition involving the use of a firearm, or participating in or practicing for a performance by an organized group that uses firearms as a part of the performance;
    (e) Hunting or trapping under a valid license issued to the person under Title 77 RCW;
    (f) In an area where the discharge of a firearm is permitted, and is not trespassing;
    (g) Traveling with any unloaded firearm in the person's possession to or from any activity described in (b), (c), (d), (e), or (f) of this subsection, except as provided in (h) of this subsection;
    (h) Traveling in a motor vehicle with a firearm, other than a pistol, that is unloaded and locked in the trunk or other compartment of the vehicle, secured in a gun rack, or otherwise secured in place in a vehicle;
    (i) On real property under the control of the person or a relative of the person;
    (j) At his or her residence;
    (k) Is a member of the armed forces of the United States, national guard, or organized reserves, when on duty;
    (l) Is a law enforcement officer; or
    (m) Carrying a firearm from or to a vehicle for the purpose of taking or removing the firearm to or from a place of business for repair.
    (5) Nothing in this section permits the possession of firearms illegal to possess under state or federal law.
    (6) Any city, town, or county may enact an ordinance to exempt itself from the prohibition of subsection (4) of this section.

    So, note that what is in the current version of 9.41.050(4) was then (5). What you have here is Deer Park affording themselves the opportunity, at that time, of exempting themselves from the onerous provisions that have for the most part been removed from the current version that by and large made OC illegal, impractical or at least gave ample reason for LEO to make contact.

    ETA: Long story short, this is nothing to bother them about except perhaps as a housekeeping item.

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    jbone wrote:
    joeroket wrote:
    Right you are Jbone. What they are trying to do is exempt themselves from the prohibition of .050 subsection 4. They are saying that they are allowed to possess firearms that are illegal to possess under state or federal statue.

    Basically the city thinks it can own and possess anything they want.

    I've been surfing the net like mad trying to find a good link to the city Government, no luck. Although I live some distance I wanted to be one of many I hope to send an email to the Council or City Attorney.

    This has to be the craziest and most misdirected ordinance I have seen in my short OC time.
    Edit: so far only found this: mayor@ci.deerpark.wa.us



    I believe this is the website to their attorney. It looks like he holds a retainer/contract with the city. Not sure how old or new this is because it shows him in Wenatchee.

    http://uslawyersdb.com/attorney475572
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

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    Even if there are court rooms in the municipal building, they can't ban firearms from the property. By state law they are compelled to provide lock boxes for firearms if that was the case. Not banning your sidearm to your car.


    City officials

    http://www.mrsc.org/cityprofiles/cit...als.aspx?id=57

    And I believe that they're court proceedings happen in Spokane.

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    Regular Member Gene Beasley's Avatar
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    partyncwby wrote:
    Even if there are court rooms in the municipal building, they can't ban firearms from the property. By state law they are compelled to provide lock boxes for firearms if that was the case. Not banning your sidearm to your car.
    That is well worth addressing. There are several people here that have successfully had such things changed. Some quicker than others (like me - Federal Way took almost a year). Poke around a bit and don't hesitate to ask.

  12. #12
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    partyncwby wrote:
    Even if there are court rooms in the municipal building, they can't ban firearms from the property. By state law they are compelled to provide lock boxes for firearms if that was the case. Not banning your sidearm to your car.


    City officials

    http://www.mrsc.org/cityprofiles/cit...als.aspx?id=57

    And I believe that they're court proceedings happen in Spokane.
    So they have no jail or court rooms in city hall? Thanks for the link. Also agree on what you said above.
    Im proudly straight. I'm free to not support Legalization, GLBT, Illegal Aliens, or the Islamization of America.

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    About the only time I ever get up to Deer park is when I'm at work driving a truck. I'm sure that there is a member That must live near there that can do some checking on whether or not they have a court room. From what I've been able to find it points to using Spokane Co for policing.

  14. #14
    Regular Member jbone's Avatar
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    ALL can I get a chop on this before I send?


    Dear Mayor Whisman,

    Mayor, I wanted to bring to your attention Deer Park’s outdated city codes as relating to firearms. I have included as reference below the codes in question, and have taken the liberty in assisting the city by providing corrective actions that will strengthen and realign with current state law. The majority of Deer Park’s code inconsistency centers on with what can be seen in a review of current RCW 9.41.050, whereas the exemption from state statutes has been removed. Code 9.12.010 must be removed, no longer valid or legal.

    City Code 9.12.020 also needs revision; 9.41.300 grants no authority to City Council’s in enacting laws pertaining to firearms control, verifiable in RCW 9.41.290, RCW 9.41.300 places no lawful carry restrictions on city hall and local government cannot enact this regulation. This code must be removed, not valid or legal.

    City Code 9.12.040 exemptions code needs rewrite as well. This code has failed to mention that those licensed under RCW 9.41.070 are also exempt in many cases. RCW 9.41.300 cites this in numerous sections pertaining to unlawful/lawful carry locations and exemptions. This code is incorrect, not required and fails to recognize all exemptions, must be removed.

    City code 9.21.070 can now be written to read as: “Any person(s) when he or she knowingly possesses or knowingly has under his or her control a weapon/firearm in violation of State Statutes shall be penalized as specified by state law and federal law” This revision will say all that is needed to say for the city and eliminates the need for codes of 9.12.010, 020 and 040 which are no longer consistent with and violate current state laws.

    Mayor Whisman, I feel the city only failed in recognizing statutory change and this will be remedied with verification by City Attorney to ensure new code accuracy with current state law. I would advise the City that until code revision is complete it informs all city employees that current city codes pertaining to firearms are not enforceable, as they are outdated and violate current state law. I would also advise that person(s) who legally possess firearms are not asked to leave, detained, or arrested. These corrective actions to codes and informative measures can prevent any unwanted law suits against the city.
    Im proudly straight. I'm free to not support Legalization, GLBT, Illegal Aliens, or the Islamization of America.

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    Campaign Veteran Right Wing Wacko's Avatar
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    The first item is actually GUN FRIENDLY! At the time, Open Carry (without a permit)was ILLEGAL but cities could exempt themselves from the ban. Deer Park did so. Good for them!

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    Very, very good Jbone! I like, what do you think about including reference to AGO 2008 No. 8? It kinda helps s-p-e-l-l it out for them.

    http://www.atg.wa.gov/opinion.aspx?s...e&id=21188



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    Regular Member jbone's Avatar
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    partyncwby wrote:
    Very, very good Jbone! I like, what do you think about including reference to AGO 2008 No. 8? It kinda helps s-p-e-l-l it out for them.

    http://www.atg.wa.gov/opinion.aspx?s...e&id=21188

    I could add that as ref link with the RCW link for thier reading pleasure.
    Im proudly straight. I'm free to not support Legalization, GLBT, Illegal Aliens, or the Islamization of America.

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    Regular Member Gene Beasley's Avatar
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    Just a thought; when I sent my letter to Federal Way, they drew a line in the sand and it was almost a year process. It seems that what I've learned from that venture and reading what others have done is that it never hurts to grease the skids.

    The first item in the OP actually pointed to where Deer Park went out of their way in support of defensive carry. It might be nice to open with that in a congenial manner - maybe something along the lines of....
    The City of Deer Park has a history of supporting the right to carry as can be seen in the outdated language of DPCC 9.12.010. This city code is no longer necessary since the provisions of the RCW that it references no longer exist. You many want to consider repealing this code. However, I do appreciate the support you have demonstrated in the past.
    There is another item of concern....
    Then go on to address the errant municipal building prohibition. It might also be worth a phone call. Seems that good results have come from getting the police chief, city attorney or city manager on board in a non-confrontational way before sending a stern letter.

    Just my 2¢'s worth.

  19. #19
    Regular Member jbone's Avatar
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    Gene, I like this approach amd will apply.
    Im proudly straight. I'm free to not support Legalization, GLBT, Illegal Aliens, or the Islamization of America.

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    partyncwby wrote:

    The city council deems it unlawful for any person to enter the Deer Park City Hall/Municipal Building located at E 316 Crawford when he or she knowingly possesses or knowingly has under his or her control a weapon/firearm. This shall apply but not be limited to the perimeter of these premises.
    So just unknowingly carry into city hall...

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    I think I could check this point for you all. I do know that there is a "municipal" court in the city bldg but it would be for minor things if for anything important at all. I am not aware of any lock boxes in the bldg but I will check.

  22. #22
    Regular Member jbone's Avatar
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    I will hold off sending letter until you report on this info .
    Im proudly straight. I'm free to not support Legalization, GLBT, Illegal Aliens, or the Islamization of America.

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    Ispoke with the city clerk of deer park today.uncovered that what you found is what is currently on the books. There is a city council tomorrow night that I will attend. Also, the bldg is used for traffic court, I asked where the gun lockers were located and they said there were none. Will keep you posted on any developmemts on this issue.

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    That's what I'm talking about! Right on:celebrate

  25. #25
    Regular Member jbone's Avatar
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    tacmedic911 wrote:
    Ispoke with the city clerk of deer park today.uncovered that what you found is what is currently on the books. There is a city council tomorrow night that I will attend. Also, the bldg is used for traffic court, I asked where the gun lockers were located and they said there were none. Will keep you posted on any developmemts on this issue.
    My letter is on hold until results of coucil meeting. Do you paln to address the council on this matter?
    Im proudly straight. I'm free to not support Legalization, GLBT, Illegal Aliens, or the Islamization of America.

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