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Thread: Scriptures advocate open carry

  1. #1
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    The flaming single actionrevolver angel .

    Peter shot the ear off of the Roman soldier .

    Mohammed's nickel plated 1911s .

    Did Jesus tell the Apostles to carry a weapon and open carry ? Is the word sword used over a thousand times in the scriptures ?

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    Your are correct, if you are alluding to the fact that the Bible is very pro-self defense. Shortly before Peter cut off the ear of that Roman soldier, Jesus told the disciples “He who has no sword should sell his coat and buy one.” Luke 22:36, NIV. The Greek word translated as “sword” in this passage ("machaira") refers to a very short, dagger-like sword that could be concealed, or could be carried openly in a scabbard. Christ’s instruction to his disciples (“sell your coat and buy one”) was far from trivial. People in that time didn’t have closets-full of clothes for every season and occasion as we do today. Further, the disciples generally gave up all that they had to follow Jesus. Kind of like saying, “sell your only car and buy that SIG.”

    Here are two articles about self-defense from a Biblical perspective published in VCDL’s publication, The Defender. One is by Dennis O’Connor and the other by myself.

    http://www.vcdl.org/defender/Vol6Issue1a.pdf page 3

    http://www.vcdl.org/defender/Vol7Issue3f.pdf Page 4

    If you’re seriously looking for an analysis of self-defense and deadly force issues from a Biblical perspective, you can start here. There are many other references and resources.

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    David used a stone to knock Galiath down before David used the Big Guy's own sword to cut off Galiath's head . What if David had a North American Arms 22LR mini ?

    Human beings have always used hand tools . Where is it written that we American law abiding citizensmust bend over a take it up the ??? .

    My sling shot is a great hand tool andhas surgical tubingand another use for lead sinkers .



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    Thisswiss army jacketis illegal in England . Is silverware next ?



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    Regular Member Flintlock's Avatar
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    Christians bearing arms...

    http://www.mouseguns.com/cba.htm
    Peace through superior firepower

    Luke 11:21
    "When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own house, his possessions are undisturbed.

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    Here's a good link about Christianity and self defense:
    http://home.earthlink.net/~ronrhodes/qselfdefense.html

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    markand wrote:
    Your are correct, if you are alluding to the fact that the Bible is very pro-self defense. Shortly before Peter cut off the ear of that Roman soldier, Jesus told the disciples “He who has no sword should sell his coat and buy one.” Luke 22:36, NIV.


    No, what actually happened isimmediate after Peter cut the guy's ear off, Jesus chastised him and told him that those that live by the sword die by the sword.

    Matthew 26:51-54


    51[/suP]And, behold, one of them which were with Jesus stretched out his hand, and drew his sword, and struck a servant of the high priest's, and smote off his ear.
    52[/suP]Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.




    As usual, the Bible can be tailored to mean whatever you want.

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    AWDstylez wrote:
    markand wrote:
    Your are correct, if you are alluding to the fact that the Bible is very pro-self defense. Shortly before Peter cut off the ear of that Roman soldier, Jesus told the disciples “He who has no sword should sell his coat and buy one.” Luke 22:36, NIV.


    No, what actually happened isimmediate after Peter cut the guy's ear off, Jesus chastised him and told him that those that live by the sword die by the sword.

    Matthew 26:51-54


    51[/suP]And, behold, one of them which were with Jesus stretched out his hand, and drew his sword, and struck a servant of the high priest's, and smote off his ear.
    52[/suP]Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.




    As usual, the Bible can be tailored to mean whatever you want.
    As usual styles has no clue what he is talking about, or is deliberately trying to decieve others. If you want to quote the Bible, it's a good idea to know the context of the passage, and use the passage accordingly.

    It is true that Jesus instructed his followers to arm themselves for the purpose of self defense.

    The admonition that He directed at Peter was because of the fact that if they chose to fight at that time, it would only cause a loss oflife for no reason. It was God's plan for Jesus to die on the cross. Escaping, in this case,would only be going against the will of God.

    If Jesus had wanted to escape, He could have pulled it off without the use of any weapons crafted by the hands of man.

    Any book of history can be used by those with less than honorable intentions to say things that aren't true,but only if there is no one to challenge them when they twist the words of historical figures. Just look at the efforts of the anti's to try and paint the 2nd Amendment to say that it protects the right of the states to form the National Guard.

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    Gordie wrote:
    AWDstylez wrote:
    markand wrote:
    Your are correct, if you are alluding to the fact that the Bible is very pro-self defense.* Shortly before Peter cut off the ear of that Roman soldier, Jesus told the disciples “He who has no sword should sell his coat and buy one.”* Luke 22:36, NIV.*
    *

    No, what actually happened is*immediate after Peter cut the guy's ear off, Jesus chastised him and told him that those that live by the sword die by the sword.

    Matthew 26:51-54


    *51[/suP]And, behold, one of them which were with Jesus stretched out his hand, and drew his sword, and struck a servant of the high priest's, and smote off his ear.
    *52[/suP]Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.


    *

    As usual, the Bible can be tailored to mean whatever you want.
    As usual styles has no clue what he is talking about, or is deliberately trying to decieve others.* If you want to quote the Bible, it's a good idea to know the context of the passage, and use the passage accordingly.*

    It is true that Jesus instructed his followers to arm themselves for the purpose of self defense.*

    The admonition that He directed at Peter was because of the fact that if they chose to fight at that time, it would only cause a loss of*life for no reason.* It was God's plan for Jesus to die on the cross.* Escaping, in this case,*would only be going against the will of God.

    If Jesus had wanted to escape, He could have pulled it off without the use of any weapons crafted by the hands of man.

    Any book of history can be used by those with less than honorable intentions to say things that aren't true,*but only if there is no one to challenge them when they twist the words of historical figures.* Just look at the efforts of the anti's to try and paint the 2nd Amendment to say that it protects the right of the states to form the National Guard.
    Right. Jesus wasn't upset that his disciples for trying to defend him, but because he knew that they knew he was supposed to die anyways, so there was no point.

    Also the 'those that live by the sword die by the sword'... Jesus wasn't just talking to Peter...

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    Gordie wrote:
    As usual styles has no clue what he is talking about, or is deliberately trying to decieve others. If you want to quote the Bible, it's a good idea to know the context of the passage, and use the passage accordingly.
    The Bible is an amazing book. If I look hard enough I bet you I can find someone that thinks (and is able to provide support) that passage means you should climb up a tree and bark like a dog.

    Jesus was never a fan of violence as the answer to anything. The references to him telling his disciples to arms themselves seem a bit ironic when you look around and realize that not one of them put up a fight when killed for their beliefs.

    That's all beside the point. You can use Biblical passages to make a point for anything you want. It's been going on for as long as the Bible has existed, and before the Bible existed religious teaching was interpreted to mean whatever the interpreter wanted it to. That's what I'm trying to get across.

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    Excellent!

    This is the only way I can even advocate self-defense. As a Christian I can't do otherwise. I'm glad to see the subject brought up.

    Other than the many times the Israelites were commanded to go to war, if I remember correctly God was called The Lord of Armies in Hebrew somewhere....

    The best analysis I have EVER heard on the biblical use of force, mainly with guns, and also the best analysis EVER on the Constitutional meaning of the 2nd Amendment was the CD "You May Not Take Our Guns" in the 2008 Witherspoon School of Law & Public Policy CD pack. It also discusses why we SHOULD carry guns as men, as Christians (if you are), and why we shouldn't have CCWs and why we can even carry M-16s if we want to.

    I'd highly, HIGHLY recommend it!

    Get it here: https://affiliates.visionforum.com/idevaffiliate.php?id=688_0_3_4"%20target="_blank

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    TheWarrior wrote:
    Excellent!

    This is the only way I can even advocate self-defense. As a Christian I can't do otherwise. I'm glad to see the subject brought up.

    Other than the many times the Israelites were commanded to go to war...

    ...and slaughter, pillage, and rape...

    continue..

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    Jesus is fully capable and willing to use violence. In fact, this is how it's described He returns:

    Revelations 19:11-16 (ESV)

    11Then I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse! The one sitting on it is calledFaithful and True, and in righteousness he judges and makes war. 12 His eyes are like a flame of fire, and on his head are many diadems, and he has a name written that no one knows but himself. 13He is clothed in a robe dipped in blood, and the name by which he is called is The Word of God. 14And the armies of heaven, arrayed in fine linen, white and pure, were following him on white horses. 15 From his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations, and he will rule them with a rod of iron. He will tread the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God the Almighty. 16On his robe and on his thigh he has a name written, King of kings and Lord of lords.




    As well, the terrible deeds done during biblical times were done by imperfect men and women, and not condoned by God.

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    It says right here in the first set of tablets that were destroyed . Just hit rewind to when Charlton Heston comes down Mt. Sinai the first time before he sees the golden calf . :what:



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    You guys are arguing over fairy tales.

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    I vaguely remember something about turning the other cheek as well, so I have to side with stylez and aran on this one.

    -ljp

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    Legba wrote:
    I vaguely remember something about turning the other cheek as well, so I have to side with stylez and aran on this one.

    -ljp
    ...doesn't put you in very good company, but whatever....

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    AWDstylez wrote:
    Gordie wrote:
    As usual styles has no clue what he is talking about, or is deliberately trying to decieve others. If you want to quote the Bible, it's a good idea to know the context of the passage, and use the passage accordingly.
    The Bible is an amazing book. If I look hard enough I bet you I can find someone that thinks (and is able to provide support) that passage means you should climb up a tree and bark like a dog.

    Jesus was never a fan of violence as the answer to anything. The references to him telling his disciples to arms themselves seem a bit ironic when you look around and realize that not one of them put up a fight when killed for their beliefs.

    That's all beside the point. You can use Biblical passages to make a point for anything you want. It's been going on for as long as the Bible has existed, and before the Bible existed religious teaching was interpreted to mean whatever the interpreter wanted it to. That's what I'm trying to get across.
    Jesus himself was known to use violence in the appropriate setting.

    John 2:15 And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers' money, and overthrew the tables;



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    Legba wrote:
    I vaguely remember something about turning the other cheek as well, so I have to side with stylez and aran on this one.

    -ljp
    Again, a single phrase taken out of context to prove a particular point of view.

    The turning the other cheek reference was in respect to taking abuse for preaching the gospel. A slap on the cheek was considered a grave insult, worse than spitting in someone's face would be today. Jesus told the desciples to take the insults for the sake of the gospel, and to offer the insulter the other cheek as well, thus showing that you were not offended.

    This section of scripture has absolutely nothing to do with defending yourself from attacking brigands,thieves, or murderers.

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    Decoligny wrote:
    Legba wrote:
    I vaguely remember something about turning the other cheek as well, so I have to side with stylez and aran on this one.

    -ljp
    Again, a single phrase taken out of context to prove a particular point of view.
    That's consistent with stylez' remark (and, by extension, mine) - that decontextualized scripture can be used to support most any point of view. I certainly firmly believe in the right of self-defense, whether or not Jesus or the Buddha or whoever would approve.

    -ljp


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    Decoligny wrote:
    Legba wrote:
    I vaguely remember something about turning the other cheek as well, so I have to side with stylez and aran on this one.

    -ljp
    Again, a single phrase taken out of context to prove a particular point of view.

    The turning the other cheek reference was in respect to taking abuse for preaching the gospel. A slap on the cheek was considered a grave insult, worse than spitting in someone's face would be today. Jesus told the desciples to take the insults for the sake of the gospel, and to offer the insulter the other cheek as well, thus showing that you were not offended.

    This section of scripture has absolutely nothing to do with defending yourself from attacking brigands,thieves, or murderers.
    Considering that most people are right handed, being struck on the right cheek implies being backhanded, this is indeed a tremendous insult. During the time of theRoman Empirethis was reserved primarily for disobedient slaves and children,not for equal men.


    AWDstylezwrote:
    That's all beside the point. You can use Biblical passages to make a point for anything you want. It's been going on for as long as the Bible has existed, and before the Bible existed religious teaching was interpreted to mean whatever the interpreter wanted it to. That's what I'm trying to get across.
    Only by those who were trying to deceive others for their own personal gain, and who werearound those who were ignorant to whathad actually been said. This is why the Bible advises all believers to study the Scriptures for themselves to prevent being deceived by charlatans.

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    Aran wrote:
    You guys are arguing over fairy tales.
    If you truly believe this, then why do youbother to get involved in the discussion?

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    Gordie wrote:
    Aran wrote:
    You guys are arguing over fairy tales.
    If you truly believe this, then why do youbother to get involved in the discussion?
    Just pointing out facts is all.

    It's like people who argue Harry Potter, except sadder, because these guys are adults, not 14 year old girls.

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    Aran wrote:
    Gordie wrote:
    Aran wrote:
    You guys are arguing over fairy tales.
    If you truly believe this, then why do youbother to get involved in the discussion?
    Just pointing out facts is all.


    Calling it like you see it: making religion look ridiculous since the beginning of time.



    My favorite thing about Christianity in particular is that you don't even have to argue against it to show how ridiculous it is. You can talk completely within the context of it, giving it the benefit of all being true... and the ridiculousness still shines through. In fact, that's the best way to show people how wrong they are - argue using their own beliefs.


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    Decoligny wrote:
    This section of scripture has absolutely nothing to do with defending yourself from attacking brigands,thieves, or murderers.
    Maybe not, but this one does...

    Luke 11:21

    "When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own house, his possessions are undisturbed."


    Peace through superior firepower

    Luke 11:21
    "When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own house, his possessions are undisturbed.

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