Scriptures advocate open carry

Gordie · Mar 30, 2009

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Decoligny wrote:

Legba wrote:

I vaguely remember something about turning the other cheek as well, so I have to side with stylez and aran on this one.

-ljp

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Again, a single phrase taken out of context to prove a particular point of view.

The turning the other cheek reference was in respect to taking abuse for preaching the gospel. A slap on the cheek was considered a grave insult, worse than spitting in someone's face would be today. Jesus told the desciples to take the insults for the sake of the gospel, and to offer the insulter the other cheek as well, thus showing that you were not offended.

This section of scripture has absolutely nothing to do with defending yourself from attacking brigands,thieves, or murderers.

Considering that most people are right handed, being struck on the right cheek implies being backhanded, this is indeed a tremendous insult. During the time of theRoman Empirethis was reserved primarily for disobedient slaves and children,not for equal men.

AWDstylezwrote:

That's all beside the point. You can use Biblical passages to make a point for anything you want. It's been going on for as long as the Bible has existed, and before the Bible existed religious teaching was interpreted to mean whatever the interpreter wanted it to. That's what I'm trying to get across.

Only by those who were trying to deceive others for their own personal gain, and who werearound those who were ignorant to whathad actually been said. This is why the Bible advises all believers to study the Scriptures for themselves to prevent being deceived by charlatans.

Gordie · Mar 30, 2009

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Aran wrote:

You guys are arguing over fairy tales.

If you truly believe this, then why do youbother to get involved in the discussion?

Aran · Mar 30, 2009

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Gordie wrote:

Aran wrote:

You guys are arguing over fairy tales.

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If you truly believe this, then why do youbother to get involved in the discussion?

Just pointing out facts is all.

It's like people who argue Harry Potter, except sadder, because these guys are adults, not 14 year old girls.

AWDstylez · Mar 30, 2009

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Aran wrote:

Gordie wrote:

Aran wrote:

You guys are arguing over fairy tales.

Click to expand...

If you truly believe this, then why do youbother to get involved in the discussion?

Click to expand...

Just pointing out facts is all.

Calling it like you see it: making religion look ridiculous since the beginning of time. :lol:

My favorite thing about Christianity in particular is that you don't even have to argue against it to show how ridiculous it is. You can talk completely within the context of it, giving it the benefit of all being true... and the ridiculousness still shines through. In fact, that's the best way to show people how wrong they are - argue using their own beliefs.

Flintlock · Mar 30, 2009

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Decoligny wrote:

This section of scripture has absolutely nothing to do with defending yourself from attacking brigands,thieves, or murderers.

Maybe not, but this one does...

Luke 11:21

"When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own house, his possessions are undisturbed."

AWDstylez · Mar 31, 2009

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Flintlock wrote:

Decoligny wrote:

This section of scripture has absolutely nothing to do with defending yourself from attacking brigands,thieves, or murderers.

Click to expand...

Maybe not, but this one does...

Luke 11:21

"When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own house, his possessions are undisturbed."

Also taken out of context. He was just using the observation as anexample for something completely unrelated. He wasn't advocating anything, not by a long shot.

Luke 11:

[suP]18[/suP]If Satan also be divided against himself, how shall his kingdom stand? because ye say that I cast out devils through Beelzebub.

19[/suP]And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your sons cast them out? therefore shall they be your judges.
20[/suP]But if I with the finger of God cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you.
21[/suP]When a strong man armed keepeth his palace, his goods are in peace:
22[/suP]But when a stronger than he shall come upon him, and overcome him, he taketh from him all his armour wherein he trusted, and divideth his spoils.
23[/suP]He that is not with me is against me: and he that gathereth not with me scattereth.
24[/suP]When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest; and finding none, he saith, I will return unto my house whence I came out.
25[/suP]And when he cometh, he findeth it swept and garnished.
26[/suP]Then goeth he, and taketh to him seven other spirits more wicked than himself; and they enter in, and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first.

If anything, the unrelated (to the point he was making) implied message within the example is to trust god, not your "armor".

Aran · Mar 31, 2009

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Trust in me, just in me
Shut your eyes and trust in me
You can sleep safe and sound
Knowing I am around

Slip into silent slumber
Sail on a silver mist
Slowly and surely your senses
Will cease to resist

Trust in me, just in me
Shut your eyes and trust in me

Carnivore · Mar 31, 2009

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Styles and Aran I don't intend to argue that any member, should believe in what I believe in, and this might not be the place to argue scripture, but please don't make a joke or poke fun at other peoples religious convictions, thats treading very dangerous ground. Even if one wants to call it fate,things happen for a reasoneveryone needs a higher being to call on in times of need, and when the time comes for any of this Open Carry family to need divine comfort, I do hope and pray it doesn't fall on deaf ears..

This isn't intended to gig either of you, or continue a derrogatory dialog about who is right or who is wrong.. God Bless America!

AWDstylez · Mar 31, 2009

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Carnivore wrote:

Styles and Aran I don't intend to argue that any member, should believe in what I believe in, and this might not be the place to argue scripture, but please don't make a joke or poke fun at other peoples religious convictions, thats treading very dangerous ground.

Quite the contrary, organized religion is the most dangerous ground this world has ever known.

There's a massive difference between personal beliefs in "a higher being," and following an organized cult. I do believe that there is some higher being or force. However, organized religion, Christianity, Judaism, and Islam in particular, absolutely disgust me with their manipulation of people and the pain and suffering they've caused throughout this world's history. Hitler had strong beliefs and faith too, does that mean I have to respect and not criticize them or point out how blatantly harmful and wrong they are?

JT · Mar 31, 2009

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Carnivore wrote:

...but please don't make a joke or poke fun at other peoples religious convictions...

They can't help it. Let them rail.

TheWarrior · Apr 1, 2009

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Decoligny wrote:

Legba wrote:

I vaguely remember something about turning the other cheek as well, so I have to side with stylez and aran on this one.

-ljp

Click to expand...

Again, a single phrase taken out of context to prove a particular point of view.

The turning the other cheek reference was in respect to taking abuse for preaching the gospel. A slap on the cheek was considered a grave insult, worse than spitting in someone's face would be today. Jesus told the desciples to take the insults for the sake of the gospel, and to offer the insulter the other cheek as well, thus showing that you were not offended.

This section of scripture has absolutely nothing to do with defending yourself from attacking brigands,thieves, or murderers.

Also, I always say, "Turn my cheek." and then people are like, "What? I can't do that!" To this I reply, "Exactly my point!"

"Turn the other cheek" refers to yourself (and not in a life-and-death circumstance, either) so this does not cover your family, women and children, etc. We are required by scripture to help them....

Spencer

Edit: I don't see why there's such a debate here...the post is about whether or not Scripture advocates the use of force, not whether or not you believe in it. I think we seriously need to get along; if you don't have anything to contribute to that particular debate, then perhaps you shouldn't be posting. Just my honest 2 cents, no offense to anyone.

Alexcabbie · Apr 3, 2009

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AWDstylez wrote:

markand wrote:

Your are correct, if you are alluding to the fact that the Bible is very pro-self defense. Shortly before Peter cut off the ear of that Roman soldier, Jesus told the disciples “He who has no sword should sell his coat and buy one.” Luke 22:36, NIV.

No, what actually happened isimmediate after Peter cut the guy's ear off, Jesus chastised him and told him that those that live by the sword die by the sword.

Matthew 26:51-54

51[/suP]And, behold, one of them which were with Jesus stretched out his hand, and drew his sword, and struck a servant of the high priest's, and smote off his ear.
52[/suP]Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.

As usual, the Bible can be tailored to mean whatever you want.

No, Styles. The Bible means what it says. And it is very true that they who live by the sword will perish by it. And they will perish by it because they will encounter those who live WITH the Sword - and that is NOT a fine distinction.

Aran · Apr 3, 2009

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The bible also says not to be a crazy-ass nutjob somewhere in it. Guess you didn't read that page.

AWDstylez · Apr 4, 2009

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Alexcabbie wrote:

No, Styles. The Bible means what it says.

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What's funny is that I've heard 999999 different brands of "Christianity" say that, and yet they all interpret it differently. Hell, even within the same church I've seen large disagreements about meaning and interpretation. The very fact that there are so many different brands and variation of "Christianity" is proof that you can take it to mean whatever you want.

The problem is that, while it does say what it means, everyone WANTS it to mean something different. I've yet to see a form of Christianity that actually takes it literally, really, truly literally. Everyone has something to read into it, and it's the most versitile book in the word because it's so big (and cryptic at times) that you can make it say whatever you want.

Alexcabbie · Apr 4, 2009

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Aran wrote:

The bible also says not to be a crazy-ass nutjob somewhere in it. Guess you didn't read that page.

YOU are calling ME a "crazy-ass nutjob"?? Har dee har har.

JT · Apr 4, 2009

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For those of you who care I'll just add my voice and say that the scriptures do support theliberty of self defense. (An explanation won't be provided unless someone who really cares requests it.) To those of you who don't believe the Bible, it supports your liberty not to believe as well but the vehemence of your unbelief was unnecessary to the point of this thread.

The anti-Christian sentiment that has hijacked this thread has obfuscated the original point, which is that Christians can and should support second amendment rights and be entirely consistent with their faith. It's a pity thatsome unbelievers in this thread cannot be happy to have others with a different world-viewsupport constitutional rights withoutantipathy but as I said before they can't help it.I will say however that despite their comments against my faith I am happy that they support 2nd Amendment rights to any degree. Their support for constitutional rights supports my liberty as well as theirs.Now, back to your regularly unscheduled railing.

Aran · Apr 4, 2009

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Just showing my support for the 1st

Prophet · Apr 4, 2009

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AWDstylez
The problem is that, while it does say what it means, everyone WANTS it to mean something different. I've yet to see a form of Christianity that actually takes it literally, really, truly literally. Everyone has something to read into it, and it's the most versitile book in the word because it's so big (and cryptic at times) that you can make it say whatever you want.

[/quote]

Whats funny is that the same standard can be applied to the second amendment and the way americans view it. You have the antis who think its a state right, OC'ers who think it guarentees Open carry without a license, hunters who think it only guarentees hunting and others who think its a defense from government tyranny.

I have heard gun owners and others argue these points. Does this mean the constitution is something to be dismissed because there isnt a consensus on what it all means? I think it does not.

AWDstylez · Apr 4, 2009

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JT wrote:

the vehemence of your unbelief was unnecessary to the point of this thread.

Ok, let me give you an example.

New threads I'm going to make:

- Harry Potter advocates open carry

- World of War Craft advocates open carry

- Cowing Jumping Moon nursery rhyme advocates open carry

Do you see the problem yet? Your religious beliefs are no more real to me than fairy tails, so a thread about what they advocate is equally irrelevant and I'm exercising my right to tell you so and explain why. I've even gone one step forward in this thread and given you the benefit of a doubt that they ARE real, and showed you how they DON'T advocate anything of the sort, right from the context of your own belief system.

AWDstylez · Apr 4, 2009

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Prophet wrote:

Whats funny is that the same standard can be applied to the second amendment and the way americans view it. You have the antis who think its a state right, OC'ers who think it guarentees Open carry without a license, hunters who think it only guarentees hunting and others who think its a defense from government tyranny.

I have heard gun owners and others argue these points. Does this mean the constitution is something to be dismissed because there isnt a consensus on what it all means? I think it does not.

I'd almost buy that if it wasn't for the fact that the Bible is supposed to be a work of god. You'd think if there was an all-powerful being that wanted people to follow him, and all these people were genuinely seeking the truth, that he'd help to coordinate them all to help them come to the same conclusions about the book he left them.

Proverbs 3:5-6 (King James Version)

5[/suP]Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
6[/suP]In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.

Christians ALL claim to followthe sameliving god that directs them in their daily lives, yet theycan hardly agree on anything. That would indicate to me that they're allfull of @#$%or the god they follow isn't real. I'm more inclined to go with the former, but that doesn't change my point.

The same cannot be said for the constitution. It is a document written by men and people's understanding of it is not directed by any supreme being. That leaves each person's interpretationto be biased by their own agenda .

[/quote]

Scriptures advocate open carry

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