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Thread: Wait inside your apartment

  1. #1
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    Last night at around 7pm I was laying down for a nap, with the tv on. I thought I heard some screaming nearby, so I turned down the tv. A moment later, I determined that the lady who lives in the apartment above me was the one screaming "help, call 911" and there was some jostling around up there-my ceiling fan was shaking and I could hear heavy movement. I promptly made the call, and got dressed, then went downstairs to open the front door of my apartment building (it's a "locked" building, 3 stories, central stairwell) to let the police in-they made great time. The screaming had stopped while I was getting some clothes on, shortly after the "call 911" was heard. My gun was on my belt, on the pants I put back on.

    After letting the police in, I'm standing out front smoking, when two of the cops run out the front door and around the building to the right (if you're facing the building). I hear a car starting in the parking lot, on the left, a moment later and direct the officer who returned that way a moment later. Other cop gets in his car and goes racing around the corner. A little while later, a fire engine pulls up for what I assume to be a paramedic call, and they proceed upstairs, I hold the door for them.

    At this point, I'm up on my floor, talking with the neighbor across from me. Her and I were discussing what was going on, and it wasn't a long conversation, just general talk about the building. One of the original responding officers comes back downstairs from the third floor and asks me to go inside my apartment, "that" (with a gesture towards my gun) was making "people" nervous. I asked why, I'm not doing anything wrong, and I'm on my property (ok, it's an apartment, I don't own the outside, etc, beside the point). He just makes his point that they need to keep an eye on everything that's happening nearby due to the incident upstairs, and if I didn't want to they'd send someone to keep an eye on me. My neighbor was apparently disgusted by this point and went inside, so I asked the cop to let me know when they were done so I could talk to my neighbor upstairs, and went inside. I know that the neighbor I was talking to didn't have a problem with it, she's been my neighbor for some time now and we've discussed the matter previously.

    The more I think about it, the more ticked off I get. I'm the one who called, they know I wasn't involved in the incident, I've been nothing but helpful, and I'm on my porch *inside* the building and not in the way. Thoughts? I'm tempted to call and complain, but not sure what exactly to say yet. I'll be calling to get the incident number later on today for reference in a complaint, if I do file one. I'd appreciate any input on the matter either way. Call and complain, let it drop, or something altogether different?

    Edit: Apparently it made the news. http://www.idahopress.com/news/?id=21832

  2. #2
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    Was there anybody else around besides that one neighbor? If not, then the officer was just making up some excuse to try to get you back inside.

    If you decide to complain, you could make the point that this officer seemed willing to draw resources away from fighting crime in order to keep watch on a peaceable person who was calmly exercising his rights.

    If you do complain, I'd be happy to help you with the wording.

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    As the situation already seemed tense, I think you did the right thing not standing your ground on the issue and going back inside. But I certainly would give them a call or write them to tell how you feel about the matter. Personally, I get nervous on phone calls but do great when I have time to put my thoughts into written form.

    Out of curiosity, do you know what happened in the aftermath of the 911 call?

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    I'd send them a letter. Not so much a complaint, but a realignment of reality for them.

    Sacred right, etc. And, ridiculous that police would waste resources watching a citizen who takes enough responsibility to defend himself and others. Makes the 911 call.

    I've decided I very much like Mark Marchifavia's response:

    Cop: "You're making people nervous."

    OCer: "They'll just have to get used to it."
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Considering that there was a BG running around, he had fled but maybe he was not the only one, theLEO and EMT were there investigating I think that it was more of and excuse to get you back into your apartment than anything to do with the gun. I agree that you had every right to be out ther talking with your neighbor but what if there was another BG in the apartment that all of a sudden started running and you were facing the LEO standing outside your apartment with a gun. Thing could have gotten hairy.

    I would say just drop it. Thge people you were making nervous may have been the LEO and EMT's.:? As I said they were investigating a crime scene where the suspect was on the loose. He may have exaggerated but he did want you out of the way in case anything did break loose. In a case like this the last thing the police want is everyone standing around in the open when they are looking for a suspect. Just a thought.

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    No further info on the incident yet. I'll go upstairs tomorrow, I've not heard any noise up there yet, so I'm guessing she's not home. I'm hoping she's alright, but as I don't really know her, I'd like to not disturb her too much so she has a chance to recover.

    I didn't go back inside from a choice of "I want to be agreeable", but rather due to my neighbor going back in. Standing in front of my door staring at other doors while being stared at didn't seem enjoyable. If I'd be able to simply continue to mind my own business and talk to my neighbor, I'd have told him to send someone to watch me if he so chose. There was no tension at that point anyhow, since the guy had fled successfully (for a little while, anyhow) and there was nothing going on except for medical assistance in the upstairs apartment.

    Citizen, I like that too, would have used something like that if I'd stayed outside.

    PT111, there was no other badguy, it was a male/female domestic dispute, and at the point where I was asked to go back inside, that was well confirmed. After all, they'd already chased the guy off and had been speaking to her for a good 10 minutes by then. They knew he'd driven off. When the incident was active, I'd been helpful and stayed out from underfoot. Heck, even if the whole thing had restarted somehow, the landing is pretty big, and more than sufficient for them to chase people up and down the stairs without me or my neighbor being in the way. It's not a tiny stairwell, it's large and central to the building...maybe, 12 by 6 or so (I didn't measure, just ballparking). I'm pretty sure it was the firemen/emts that were nervous, but really, that's their problem and not mine. At least it was until they sent the cop down to ask me to go back inside.

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    NightOwl wrote:
    No further info on the incident yet. I'll go upstairs tomorrow, I've not heard any noise up there yet, so I'm guessing she's not home. I'm hoping she's alright, but as I don't really know her, I'd like to not disturb her too much so she has a chance to recover.

    I didn't go back inside from a choice of "I want to be agreeable", but rather due to my neighbor going back in. Standing in front of my door staring at other doors while being stared at didn't seem enjoyable. If I'd be able to simply continue to mind my own business and talk to my neighbor, I'd have told him to send someone to watch me if he so chose. There was no tension at that point anyhow, since the guy had fled successfully (for a little while, anyhow) and there was nothing going on except for medical assistance in the upstairs apartment.

    Citizen, I like that too, would have used something like that if I'd stayed outside.

    PT111, there was no other badguy, it was a male/female domestic dispute, and at the point where I was asked to go back inside, that was well confirmed. After all, they'd already chased the guy off and had been speaking to her for a good 10 minutes by then. They knew he'd driven off. When the incident was active, I'd been helpful and stayed out from underfoot. Heck, even if the whole thing had restarted somehow, the landing is pretty big, and more than sufficient for them to chase people up and down the stairs without me or my neighbor being in the way. It's not a tiny stairwell, it's large and central to the building...maybe, 12 by 6 or so (I didn't measure, just ballparking). I'm pretty sure it was the firemen/emts that were nervous, but really, that's their problem and not mine. At least it was until they sent the cop down to ask me to go back inside.
    We know that now and probably everyone felt that way at the time. I was just bringing that out as every time someone brings up some scenario someone pops up with what about his partner. It's like why does everyone slow down at an accident scene even though it is in the other lane of a divided highway with a concrete median between. I still say just forget about it even though you are PO'd at his actions and I am not condoning them. For what it is worth you did exactly what you needed to do by calling 911 immediately and unlocking the door for them. Maybe instead of telling you to go back inside they should have thanked you but remember that for you it is a rare occurance but for them it is several times a day and most people hinder instead of help. Sometimes they get jaded to everything.

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    the bad guy looks like a bad guy, I wouldn't complain but I would keep a close eye on the case and be extra carefull when he gets released and if he sends friends around for retribution.

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    At least the K-9 dog bit the bastard. I wonder if the LEOs worried about their dogs making people nervous...

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    lol!

    He's not getting released anytime soon, he's in on no-bond, and probably going to be there a while.

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    Your gun is entitled to go wherever you go, certainly on your own property.

    I wouldn't have went inside. Cops are servants, not masters, and they don't give orders.

    Martial law sees orders given for people to go inside.

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    idahoguy84 wrote:
    At least the K-9 dog bit the bastard. I wonder if the LEOs worried about their dogs making people nervous...
    I'm guessing the LEO's were probably more worried about their dogs catching something nasty from biting that scumbag.

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    smoking357 wrote:
    Your gun is entitled to go wherever you go, certainly on your own property.

    I wouldn't have went inside. Cops are servants, not masters, and they don't give orders.

    Martial law sees orders given for people to go inside.
    Indeed, no none is arguing the fact that the OP had every RIGHT to be out there. I also tend to have the initial "you can't tell me what to do" attitude when anyone tells me what to do. And in this case, I'd be right, they can't tell me what to do. It doesn't sound like the cop was trying to be commanding, he simply asked him to go inside for what could be several reasons, some of them quite good. If he was just driving by doing a patrol at the apartment complex I live at, then I most certainly would have a terrible attitude about it. In this situation, there was a little more going on and I think some understanding on our part would be the mature thing to do at the time. There is no shame in "submitting" for the moment and then making your feelings known at a more opportune time.

    PT111 had it right: "remember that for you it is a rare occurance but for them it is several times a day and most people hinder instead of help. Sometimes they get jaded to everything."

    There are times to fight and argue, and there are times to let it go. This is one of those times to have let it go and take it up later if necessary.

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    I wouldn't have let them bully me. In this case it's likely he just wanted to get you inside to eliminate more 'faces' to scan... but it's still not his business telling you what to do unless you're directly interfering... which apparently you were not.

    btw, good on you!

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    IndianaBoy79 wrote:

    There are times to fight and argue, and there are times to let it go. This is one of those times to have let it go and take it up later if necessary.
    There are never times to take orders from a cop when you're doing nothing wrong.

    Backing down emboldens them for the next encroachment.

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    Next time a cop puts his lights on and you don't believe you are breaking the law, do you plan to pull over?

    Where does this animosity come from? I didn't say anyone should just "take orders" laying down. I said it can sometimes be smart to argue about it at a different time, or even go as far as trying to see their view. I don't believe in this case anyone was ordered around so much as he was asked to do something he felt inclined not to. I fully support your right not to comply with a simple request, but you seem to want to say no just because someone made a request in the first place. Where does this attitude come from?

    Edited:
    Nevermind, i see where it comes from in several previous posts. All one has to do is read your history here.

    Your just out looking for a fight. Don't worry, I won't bother the likes of you with my "feelings" again. I'm sure there are several forums out there for you to join that support your anti-government stances on things. The difference between you and others I see with similar views is they want to restore government to its proper place, and they choose their battles carefully. You seem to want a confrontation in any situation. Best of luck.

    BTW, WHERE are you? You seem to want everyone to "man up" but are hiding behind the anonymity the internet offers. Have you ever met an Idaho cop? Sure, we have our occasional mishap, and members I respect will disagree with me that most of them are good apples. Those same people probably wouldn't want to trade our cops for cops from California or elsewhere. Just wondering where you are because that might shed some legitimate light on your feelings.

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    IndianaBoy79 wrote:
    I fully support your right not to comply with a simple request, but you seem to want to say no just because someone made a request in the first place. Where does this attitude come from?
    Lexington.

    Concord.

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    smoking357 wrote:
    IndianaBoy79 wrote:*
    I fully support your right not to comply with a simple request, but you seem to want to say no just because someone made a request in the first place.* Where does this attitude come from?*** *** *** *** *** *** ***
    Lexington.

    Concord.
    This forum gets more and more interesting every day! I love the 1st ammendment!

  19. #19
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    IndianaBoy79 wrote:
    Have you ever met an Idaho cop? Sure, we have our occasional mishap, and members I respect will disagree with me that most of them are good apples. Those same people probably wouldn't want to trade our cops for cops from California or elsewhere. Just wondering where you are because that might shed some legitimate light on your feelings.
    In all honesty, I'm very concerned when I do have to interact with Idaho police. Seems like every couple of months there's a police shooting with the officers consistently found to be not guilty of anything via internal investigation. A great example is an incident where a mentally insane man was in the back room of his ex wifes house with a bread knife, and the police were called to remove him, nobody was in the house except for him. IIRC there were 7 officers on scene when they went in and shot him for charging at them with the bread knife. Officers found not guilty of any wrongdoing. That man could have been alive today if they'd tossed in some teargas, had a negotiator come out, shot him with a tazer, or any scenario that involved a little common sense. He was not, at the time, a threat to anybody, he was alone in a back room and not known to be suicidal, though he was certifiably insane. Where was the non-lethal ammunition (bean bags or something), where was the pepper spray and close the door on him for a minute while it takes effect?

    Had I not been concerned for the life of my neighbor, I wouldn't have called, I'd have gone up there to make contact myself, just like I do when people play the music or party too loudly (just to be clear, the sound of it was definately a serious incident and calling the police was what I immediately did, and I'm not regretting that, it was the correct choice due to the evident sounds of hostility and terror from upstairs). Far too many incidents of officers shooting people then sticking together in a not-guilty investigation. That man in the example was murdered by the police, flat out. It could have gone much better had they not wanted to shoot him and had attempted non-lethal force. I understand they all want to go home at the end of the day, but it wasn't a situation of coming around the corner and finding someone charging at you, they knew where he was and that he wasn't a threat until they made him one by going in there with guns drawn instead of non-lethal force. No riot shield? No baton?

    Another quick example is a teenage boy, around 14-15 iirc, with a musket that had a bayonette on it on drugs in his father's front yard, police called by the father. The musket was plugged, and was completely incapable of firing. Officers arrived, and shot the boy. No taser? Pepper spray? Baton? Surely a 14 year old with a non-firing musket w/bayonette can't be THAT much of a threat to the life ofmultiple trainedofficers who were aware of where he was and not suddenly surprised by his appearance. The father was, understandably, crushed, since he contacted the police to avoid anybody getting hurt, and his son was shot to death as a result. Internal investigation found the officers actions to be acceptable, no charges filed.

    Perhaps I express this all a bit too forcefully, as I don't tremble in my boots when I see an Idaho police officer, though I do think that many in this general area are a bit...perhaps bloodthirsty might be an applicable term. Still, I *am* concerned for the life of anyone on the receiving end of an idaho police call, and I think twice before contacting them. Those were only a couple of examples, there are plenty more. I don't recall the exact location of those, but they were somewhere in the area of Caldwell to Boise. In general I'm sure that most of the officers are decent enough folks. They don't bother me, I don't bother them. However, there seems to be a bad element, and they seem to stick together very, very tightly when there's a shooting investigation that inevitably finds the officers to have done the right thing...even when it's clear that they didn't. Calling Idaho police is a scary thing, to me. It shouldn't be that way. It's mighty hard to tell which ones are the bad apples, so it sort of makes the whole barrel suspect, I guess you could say. I just...I just find it to be a very sad, depressing situation when I find myself wondering if the police are going to murder someone if they get called. I certainly hope I'm never in a situation where I need to call them out for more than a loud dog or to take a report again....I don't want to feel like the father of that teenager felt, by calling the police to help and instead costing someone their life.

    Note: To briefly touch on your prior post, IndianaBoy, I'm about 99.9% sure that it was the fire department that was nervous about me being armed, since the police had been on site and interacted with me a few times over the course of the incident without saying anything, and the officer came down after the fire department went up.

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    NightOwl, you remember incorrectly.

    The high school student was in possession of a WWII Japanese 8mm rilfe with bayonet attached. He charged the single BPD officer from the bushes by his home and stuck the cop through his jacket. According to the Tueller Rule (which has been held up in court) a person within 21 feet with an edged weapon is an immediate and lethal threat. That teen was well within 21 feet and had already attempted to stab the cop after going apesh!t inside of his home. If you would have pulled the trigger it would have been justified and so was that one. Oddly enough the same rule applies to the guy with the bread knife.

    Before you go ragging on our cops do some research about the cases you so poorly cite. You should also look into the use of force continuum that LEOs use.

    I would much rather have Idaho cops than CA or Spokane cops here. They may be found not-guilty in their shootings but that is because they tend to play by the rules around here and are not a corrupt agency like LAPD, Spokane PD or any host of others. If you don't like 'em leave my state.

    Call me a LEO apologist, or whatever you want but before you go calling out people and situations you have very little knowledge of do some research into the cases. You appear to have virtually zero knowledge of police procedure, if you had any you would know the cops did what needed to be done. Of course you seem to have a hard on for stirring up trouble around here. Personally I don't trust you with a firearm with your attitude, but living in Nampa it kinda come with the territory.

  21. #21
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    Vandal wrote:
    NightOwl, you remember incorrectly.

    The high school student was in possession of a WWII Japanese 8mm rilfe with bayonet attached. He charged the single BPD officer from the bushes by his home and stuck the cop through his jacket. According to the Tueller Rule (which has been held up in court) a person within 21 feet with an edged weapon is an immediate and lethal threat. That teen was well within 21 feet and had already attempted to stab the cop after going apesh!t inside of his home. If you would have pulled the trigger it would have been justified and so was that one. Oddly enough the same rule applies to the guy with the bread knife.

    Before you go ragging on our cops do some research about the cases you so poorly cite. You should also look into the use of force continuum that LEOs use.

    I would much rather have Idaho cops than CA or Spokane cops here. They may be found not-guilty in their shootings but that is because they tend to play by the rules around here and are not a corrupt agency like LAPD, Spokane PD or any host of others. If you don't like 'em leave my state.

    Call me a LEO apologist, or whatever you want but before you go calling out people and situations you have very little knowledge of do some research into the cases. You appear to have virtually zero knowledge of police procedure, if you had any you would know the cops did what needed to be done. Of course you seem to have a hard on for stirring up trouble around here. Personally I don't trust you with a firearm with your attitude, but living in Nampa it kinda come with the territory.

    I did recall correctly, you didn't say anything different than what I said, and I did not go "ape@#$%". The cops involved absolutely deserve me "ragging on" them, and they should be charged with murder, at least in the case of the guy with the bread knife. Did the cop know the kid with the bayonette was there in the yard before he showed up? Absolutely,the officerwas informed the teen was in that yard with the rifle and put themselves in proximity to be in danger. Did he have to approach so closely to be in a position to get charged like that? No. Where was the shotgun with non-lethal rounds? Where was the tazer? Few bean bags would have done the trick perhaps, but now we'll never know. The officer went into the situation knowing full well the teen was there and what was going on, and made the choice to put himself in that location. The officer wasn't within 21 feet when he got the call, and he made the choice to put himself close enough to get charged at. Could have have parked his car and stood behind it, firing non-lethal ammo from behind it? Perhaps he could have talked the kid down from behind it, keeping the vehicle in position to prevent himself from getting charged at.

    Do your own research and you'll find that the ombudman and the father both agree that the officer fired without warning. The father and officer disagree as to whether or not the teen was close enough to poke the officer. The father told the dispatcher it was an unloaded rifle, the dispatcher told the officer that it was an "assault rifle" (confirmed by the ombudsman).

    Take a look for yourself: http://boiseguardian.com/2006/07/13/...budsman-stock/ Alternatively, you can check here, where they state the ombudsman finds that they officer did not follow proper procedure: http://www.fox12boise.com/Global/story.asp?s=5143880 Perhaps you'd prefer to see where the officer says the cuts in his shirt and vest were from the bayonet, but there were no cuts in his fleece jacket that he was wearing over the shirt and vest: http://www.ktvb.com/news/localnews/s...4.610a320.html That's kind of odd how the "stab" missed the outer layer of clothing, don't you think? Oh, wait, I'm wrong...using a magnifying glass and a flashlight they found a tiny, tiny hole in the outer jacket that cut a year after the event (and I quote the coroner here) "one or two threads". From a bayonet stab? Seriously? Yet it made visible holes in the underclothing and didn't injure the officer?

    As for the guy with the bread knife, they again put themselves into the position where he was within 21 feet, he didn't put himself in that position. If you walk up to a person with a knife and shoot them for being too close to you with a knife, that's hardly the fault of the person with the knife. It could have been handled MUCH better, since he wasn't a threat to them until they made him one. He was sequestered in a back bedroom of an empty house...until they went in with guns drawn and shot him down. Ahem, more links: http://www.ktvb.com/news/localnews/s....6aa9f739.htmlwhere it clearly states that everyone was safely out of the house till the officers went into the house with their "plan". Obviously, their plan was insufficient to handle the known situation of a man with a mental disorder who had a knife in an area where he wasn't actively threatening anyone. Could they have worked out a better plan? Perhaps tried talking to him through the closed door, or from the backyard? Why on earth would they enter the room when they didn't need to do so immediately, when they could have taken the time to deal with him in safety?

    Would I be justified in walking up to someone with a knife who I know to be mentally unstable and shooting them down? No, that would be called murder. How about if I talked them into putting down the knife and surrendering while I'm in a safe location, since nobody is currently being threatened? Much better outcome.

    As for my "attitude" I'm not sure where you get the idea that I'm "stirring up trouble" around here. Perhaps a little research into that might be helpful to you as well. I can only assume that you're referring to my disagreement with CaCop, and I will always have a problem with someone saying that their paycheck is more important than my rights, every single time. Other than that, and people stirring up trouble involving me directly, I'm a pretty easygoing guy. So, why are you coming here with incorrect assumptions about the incident (which it seems that I remembered correctly) and claiming that I'm wrong? Before you jump on my case telling me I'm going "ape@#$%" check your own facts and get them straight. Feel free to use the links I provided to help out with that.

    Oh, and if you could show me a link to any police policy indicating that they should shoot people who aren't a threat to anybody, I'd love to read it.

  22. #22
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    BTW - we DO have the undesirable California cops here. Boise Police Department has been posting recruiting notices in L.A. to attract cops to move here. The BPD brass figures they save money by not having to send the L.A. copsto POST because they've already had training down there. Wouldn't be surprised if Caldwell and Nampa PD do the same thing.

    This practice should outrage everyone in the Treasure Valley; we don't need non-residents with no sense of Idaho perspective or attachments to the community they serve enforcing our laws. It certainly explains the militarization in appearance and mindset of LEO's here,and may well have something to do with the spate of officer-involved shootings over the last decade.

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    Nightowl, I've certainly had good and bad experiences with police. I once had a gun to my head while at a friends house that was getting raided. Ended up being the wrong apartment, but I think I remember ******* my pants quite literally. Men dressed in black with black hoods and no badges, lots of barking orders, no knock; I thought we were dead for sure. Surely incompetence due to someone reading the address wrong. They wanted the apartment above us.

    I've had officers assist while my car is broken down, play "counselor" during family disputes (instead of making an arrest when they lawfully could have), search for my lost dog, and some have been great when it comes to showing me their guns, and their secondary pieces, and just talking guns in general.

    I think I've learned by now that everyone is an individual. Most of those individuals have been great people. Some of them not just like anyone else. I tend to defend the individual first and assume that they are innocent. As far as them putting themselves in danger, yes, they did. We hire them to go into danger every day, to go after the really bad people. When they are called to a house, they need to respond. When that person doesn't comply, then it is no one else's fault when they get shot for not dropping a weapon. Its terrible, its sad, but the responsibility lies on the person waving a knife around and making threats. In the case of a mentally ill person, the responsibility lies with their guardians to have prevented this in the first place. Until I see firm evidence of malice, intentional murder, I think I'll assume he did exactly what I would have and acted within the law. Don't you want the same assumption when you fire your weapon in self defense some day?

    Your not stirring up any trouble with me. Just sharing my analysis of things.

  24. #24
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    I've had good experiences and bad as well. I've had officers be helpful, courteous, polite, and go out of their way...and others who have done things which resulted in me getting a misdemenor conviction for something I didn't do about 15 years ago(well, that and not being as familiar with my rights as I am now, there's no way the same thing would get anywhere, knowing what I know now). I'm not disputing that 99% of officers are decent folks, trying to do the best they can with a crappy job. The problem is the 1% who are feeding on the power trip, or perhaps a bit sadistic in a line of work where they can get into fights legally (in many situations, use of force is required, etc, not trying to say that cops beating on citizens is a legal fight), as well as unjust laws they're required to enforce from time to time, etc.

    I sincerely hope that any police reading this don't feel that I'm bashing on them, as I'm not (well, unless you're in the 1%). I have a lot of respect for the good officers and the dirty job they have to do. I just don't want to be responsible for calling out the 1% who abuse their authority in any way, and it saddens me that I even feel concerned at all when I need to call the police, as a result I deal with most stuff directly myself, when I can.

    Glad to hear you don't feel like I'm stirring up trouble, I certainly didn't intend to and apologize to anyone who feels I came off that way, just voicing my opinion. Anyhow, I still would have liked to have seen the bread knife incident go to trial more than anything, so a jury could have drawn their conclusions rather than just a couple of people making the decision. It clearly won't, but it still bothers me when I consider it. At best, it was a horrible judgement call that resulted in loss of life, and those officers got off very, very easy for that.

    This thread is getting pretty derailed, so getting back on topic. I decided that, though I didn't like the officer telling me that he'd have to post someone to watch me talk to my neighbor if I didn't go inside, it wasn't sufficient to warrant a complaint. He's a decent enough guy, I've talked with him before, and I don't want to put a complaint (valid or not) in his file. I do, however, hope that I have the opportunity to talk to him again and discuss the incident. I think it was a bad call on his part to not tell the firemen to just cope with their own nervousness. The officer and I both knew that I wasn't in the way of the incident at all, and that I was being perfectly helpful otherwise. Perhaps I can convince him to tell the firemen that their nervousness is not my problem in the future.



  25. #25
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    And if the officer doesn't tell the fireman...I'd say at least the officer knows how you feel now and will be prepared for you NOT going back into the house if asked again. At least that way its discussed AFTER the situation is over, and he can expect non-compliance on your part with simple "requests" unless he gives you an "order" the next time you have an encounter.

    I'm fortunate enough to know most of the officers I see by name. I've had 911 called on me twice here in Eagle, and both times the officers drive up to me (I was on foot both time) saw my gun on my hip and asked "Hey, we just got a call bout a man with a gun...were you just down the street that way?" I tell them yes and they said "Ok man, just checking, see ya later!" I'm positive that knowing them on a personal basis removes some of the thinking that I'm a potential threat and it makes my life easier. I wonder how these same officers would react not knowing me. I'd hope they'd be as friendly as they are now, but who knows?

    Actually Nightowl...I would say its more than 1% bad apples. I wouldn't know how to begin to quantify things, but if I did a percentage just based on my own bad/good experiences, I'd say it's closer to 10%. The percentage doesn't matter so much though; whats important is that we stand together for our rights, as peacefully as we can and fight within the system until that is no longer an option. The more we change peoples attitudes about guns and other rights in general, the better our police force will mirror the public attitude. Unfortunately, while we might decrease the number of bad cops out there, we'll never be able to get rid of all of them. A job like that is going to attract certain undesireable types, much like a forum like this will too.

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