I got kicked out of Sport Authority on Baseline

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exKommiefornian wrote:

jmelvin wrote:

Whether you be here or there, you should've stopped and spoken with the manager on duty instead of just leaving. The laws of Arizona generally require that a store have obvious (see case law for what is acceptable and not)signage when they bar the carrying of firearms, but there are also provisions that allow for business operators to address you on an individual basis. Register kid likely doesn't have the authority to address your carriage of a firearm (since he is likely not the representative of the store on this matter), but the manager on duty would.

Since you did not stay around to talk to the management directly your best course for the redress of the issue would be to either call the store management and if you do not receive satisfactory redress that way, speak with the corporate customer service group. If the store manager is any bit familiar with Arizona law and customs and respects both then you will likely have your issue taken up to your satisfaction, however the corporate office would be the next appropriate point of contact if no satisfaction is received.

The issue you have had at this particular store is one that people all across the U.S. have on occasion, whether they be in Arizona, Virginia, Indiana or Alaska. Take a look across the whole of this board and you will see many topics posted with similar scenarios and you will also notice that the resolutions for redress are quite similar despite the peculiarities of an individual state (although this may come into play depending on what state you live in).

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I thought that I made myself clear that I am not interested in opinions
from other states! Perhaps I didn't.
This is the "ARIZONA" forum sir.
Not the "Whole Entire United States Forum".
Your comments are not welcome by me or valid unless you are knowledgeable with AZ laws.
You yourself even mention that a individual state has it's own peculiarities.
I don't give a hoot of how it is in other states, no matter how "similar" you claim the laws are, nor will the judge if I do something wrong based on advise coming from somebody who lives in some other state.
I will no longer acknowledge posts from other states with regards to this issue, unless the person is knowledgeable with AZ laws concerning this type of issue. I'm sorry that it seems I'm being an jerk in this matter.
But I'd rather be correct with regards to AZ law.

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Well with that attitude of yours, perhaps you should head on back to Kalyfornya and deal with their guns laws and leave us alone. You certainly bought along a few bad habits from the land of fruits n' nuts.

Citizen has been around this forum MUCH LONGER than you or I. Now I don't always agree with his advice but I'll never publicly insult him.

You need to publicly offer an apology to a few people here before you'll get any friendly AZ gun law advice from me.

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As a fellow Phoenician, I have to say that your attitude isn't going to get any points from me either, and I for one fully welcome participation from everyone on this forum.

That said, two things for you. Every-other pair-of words-in a-sentence shouldn't-be hyphenated. Kommifornia's education system must not be any better than ours here in AZ =( Damn shame.

More on point... that 'kid', who was obviously an employee, does indeed have the legal means to require you to leave your gun in your car. He was a representative of that store, manager or not. At that point your only recourse is to leave your gun in your car and go back in to take it up with a manager, or leave and pursue dialog with the company via phone/email/fax/mail/whatever you want. If you, or anyone else here, thinks that "well he isn't a manager!' is an excuse that will preclude you from being slapped with trespassing charges... well let's just say I will be waiting for your post to let us know how that goes.

Oh, and since your obvious 'reason' for not wanting information from anyone except those in AZ is because you want to be able to rely on it, you need to contact the police and/or an attorney. Only an idiot would take any internet forum advice (including mine above) as 'official' in any way. You apparently want solid, 100%, 'official' information and only the legal system can provide you with that. Even then, gun laws almost never have yes/no answers regardless of the state. You will encounter grey areas even on this subject.

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Thoreau wrote:

More on point... that 'kid', who was obviously an employee, does indeed have the legal means to require you to leave your gun in your car. He was a representative of that store, manager or not. At that point your only recourse is to leave your gun in your car and go back in to take it up with a manager, or leave and pursue dialog with the company via phone/email/fax/mail/whatever you want. If you, or anyone else here, thinks that "well he isn't a manager!' is an excuse that will preclude you from being slapped with trespassing charges... well let's just say I will be waiting for your post to let us know how that goes.

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Thor is dead on about the potential criminal trespass charge and the proper steps to school the youngin.

Also, heres a link to the ARS pertaining that part if you want the exact letter of the law:

http://azleg.gov/FormatDocument.asp?inDoc=/ars/13/01502.htm&Title=13&DocType=ARS

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exKommiefornian wrote:

I thought that I made myself clear that I am not interested in opinions
from other states! Perhaps I didn't.
This is the "ARIZONA" forum sir.
Not the "Whole Entire United States Forum".
Your comments are not welcome by me or valid unless you are knowledgeable with AZ laws.

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Looks like your comments are not welcome by the majority of the forum.

I'm certainly not going to rush to offer any AZ advice to you, except take that attitude back to Kommifornia.

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jmelvin wrote:

exKommie, my suggestions were given to you with respect to Arizona law of which I'm knowledgeable despite not being present there currently. Perhaps you are best served having tucked tail and run awaysince you cannot even take the courteous instruction given to you which you requested. Once you have determined the appropriate course of action for redress of your grievance please come back and school us on just how you go about addressing a large sporting goods company with regard to its firearm carry policies.

Perhaps you should do well to sit down and read through the Arizona Gun Owners Guide by Alan Korwin or familiarize yourself with the Arizona legislature website so you are aware of the laws governing firearms carry within Arizona before you find yourself in a pickle like you did in Sports Authority.

Edit to Add: I dare say that if you are so concerned with surviving a court room scenario and youare not willing to take the suggestions of the common person familiar with Arizona law you'd do well to learn it yourself and hire an attorney intimately familiar with Arizona law to advise you if you plan to OC as open carry leaves no room for mistakes.

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I could not agree more with this statement. We are all here to help and educate each other in this forum. Excommiefornian is acting like a 2 year old IMHO. It doesn't matter what state you are in when receiving the advice jmelvin gave. If some snot nosed clerk gives you crap about your gun, then talk to someone that ACTUALLY MATTERS; the store manager. If that does not produce a satisfactory result, then call corporate. I AM an Arizona resident, and I would give you that same advice regardless of what state I happen to be in. There is no need to be a jerk to someone who is trying to help you. If you don't want help, THEN LEAVE!

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exKommiefornian wrote:

In response the reply of "Citizen"...
It happened on the date of my posting.
Are You a resident of Arizona?
Are You familiar with Arizona Gun Laws pertaining to this situation?
It says that you are from "Va".
If you don't live here, what can YOU contribute to this conversation
other than your opinion?
If you don't live here or know the laws here,
please don't waste my time.
This is the "Arizona" section right?
No offense intended.

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this is the Arizona section, but Citizen does have a valid point. Additionally, you've blown off many others who are from other states but have a strong reputation for knowing this game very well. Most probably know AZ laws every bit as well as we do, I would think you'd appreciate all the information you could get.

If you want an Arizona only board there are some out there, but you're not going to find the wealth of OC info anywhere else. Rather than get a chip on your shoulder, I suggest you show a bit more respect and glean fromthe wisdom of others.

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exKommiefornian wrote:

I was wearing my Glock21 on my side.
The sales boy asked me to step outside a
nd put my gun in my car
because they sell "Live Ammo"!

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I would have shown himmy magazines loaded with "Live Ammo" and asked him what difference it made. Of course I probably would have still been asked to leave, but it would be nice to illustrate the specious reasoning of the misinformed clerk.

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Thoreau wrote:

.....snip..that 'kid', who was obviously an employee, does indeed have the legal means to require you to leave your gun in your car. He was a representative of that store, manager or not....snip...

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That point had me digging into my recent copy of the Arizona Gun Owners Guide which states on page #69: "You cannot enter any public establshment or attend any public event and carry a deadly weapon after the PEOPLE IN CHARGE of the establishment or event make a reasonable request for you to give them custody of the weapon". (Or leave the building/event)

The case law is available further in the guide.

I don't believe some punk sales kid would qualify as a person in charge of the establishment, I mean who in the hell would put him in charge of the store? Of course if the kid refused to summon his manager, instead picked up the phone to call the Police, *I* would quietly then leave the store.

Feel free to jump in with your thoughts......

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GWbiker wrote:

Thoreau wrote:

.....snip..that 'kid', who was obviously an employee, does indeed have the legal means to require you to leave your gun in your car. He was a representative of that store, manager or not....snip...

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That point had me digging into my recent copy of the Arizona Gun Owners Guide which states on page #69: "You cannot enter any public establshment or attend any public event and carry a deadly weapon after the PEOPLE IN CHARGE of the establishment or event make a reasonable request for you to give them custody of the weapon". (Or leave the building/event)

The case law is available further in the guide.

I don't believe some punk sales kid would qualify as a person in charge of the establishment, I mean who in the hell would put him in charge of the store? Of course if the kid refused to summon his manager, instead picked up the phone to call the Police, *I* would quietly then leave the store.

Feel free to jump in with your thoughts......

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This is true GW, but that part of the law is pertaining to non federal public property. The reason why motor vehicles and city court have to provide gun lockers. Sports Authority is private property and the kid is an agent of that property, which is why he can be in that store after hours and we cant.

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GWbiker wrote:

Thoreau wrote:

.....snip..that 'kid', who was obviously an employee, does indeed have the legal means to require you to leave your gun in your car. He was a representative of that store, manager or not....snip...

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That point had me digging into my recent copy of the Arizona Gun Owners Guide which states on page #69: "You cannot enter any public establshment or attend any public event and carry a deadly weapon after the PEOPLE IN CHARGE of the establishment or event make a reasonable request for you to give them custody of the weapon". (Or leave the building/event)

The case law is available further in the guide.

I don't believe some punk sales kid would qualify as a person in charge of the establishment, I mean who in the hell would put him in charge of the store? Of course if the kid refused to summon his manager, instead picked up the phone to call the Police, *I* would quietly then leave the store.

Feel free to jump in with your thoughts......

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Unfortunately, to my knowledge, the law doesn't add any provision that would allow one to wander around, still armed, to search out and verify the actual 'person in charge.' Anyone who represents the business (from the janitor to the general manager) has more authority within the business than I do, so compared to me, all of them can be the 'person in charge.' I could easily see the law being interpreted that way depending on the judges/officers who get involved...

I should add that while I am entirely FOR our rights to keep, open carry, conceal carry, etc. I still do care quite a bit about public perception of our group. It sucks that we should have to play the PR game, but if we don't we just end up looking like armed assholes and just feed the flames of the anti-gun crowd. That SHOULDN'T matter, but anyone who has been watching the news lately and seen the direction the country has been going over the years knows that just because its in the bill of rights doesn't mean its going to always mean something...

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:?Edit #2: I got my sports stores mixed up. I wrote about Sportsmans Warehouse not Sports Authority. Sorry about that. I am leaving the info in place though for those that might benefit from it.


I have been dealing with Sportsmans Warehousein Mesa for some time now and am aware of their gun policy as of a month back. They do or didhave a sign in the entry way.

If you have a gun that you wish to un holster while in the store you are supposed to turn left as you enter and have it tagged by the Customer Service personel.

Valid reasons for un holstering might be to try it in a new holster or consult with clerks at the gun sales counter.

If you have no reason to un holster you simply enter and go about your business shopping which I have done on numerous occasions.

I will not be in the area for a month or so but any of you in Mesa could easily confirm what I believe to be an acceptable gun policy at (corrected) Sportsmans Warehouse.


Edit #1: The reason customer service tags the gun is to verify it is empty and therefore safe to pull from the holster while in the store. I have no problem with that policy.

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WOW! So I am sitting here at night doing what I usually do...go to the Arizona section of OpenCarry.org to see the latest. When I read all of the prior posts I was truly shocked!

I can understand why someone from Arizona with a question/concern/update posts in the Arizona section..that's obvious. I also understand that there are others located around the country in this forum that may live here part of the year "snowbirds" and or have lived here and know quite a bit about the laws of the area and want to provide feedback.

That being said with all respect to everyone here, we really need to remember we are all brothers, and if someone is trying to help...let's not get upset for no reason, regardless of where they are from. This board does not state "only Arizona people allowed". There are plenty of users I have met on this site that are not in Arizona that have been very helpful.

As Sonora Rebel stated in an earlier post, we do have a local Arizona forum, http://www.arizonadefensegroup.com that is used for local folks, many of the users from this site, such as Sonora Rebel, and Dahwg, manage that site today thus insuring you get feedback from those that are local and can assist or discuss most everything dealing with our 2A and laws of the land.

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If an establishment is posted "no carry", they don't deserve my money (whether I'm OCing or CCing). If they're not posted, and they ask me to leave (due to OCing, and yes, any employee can ask you to leave), I always respond with, "Certainly, I'll be happy to leave, and happy to spend my money elsewhere... Joe", (look at their name tag, and be sure to use their name). Add that you'll be contacting their manager and you'll be sure to mention them, when you explain why you are taking all your future business to one of their competitors. In this day and age, there's nothing a business hates more than losing customers. Above all, be friendly and polite, even if you're dealing with an idiot.

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Sorry for the double post, but when you contact the manager, I've found the best strategy is to inform them that they are actually allowed to post their establishment as,"No Firearms Allowed". This ismost helpful to them, as it solves the problem of their employees having to askOur Kind to leave. But it's far more helpful to us, the gun carrying public, who number in the tens of thousands, many of which who open carry, and many of which who carry concealed, as we know right away (before we even enter the store), to go spend our money elsewhere, since their business does not support our Second Amendment Rights.

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exKommiefornian seems to have 'quit' the OCDO forum unfortunately. 'Not being Mr. Sweetness 'n Light myself at times... I would also have a problem with some register jocky with an anti-gun attitude in an unposted establishment. Hell... I have problems enuff with some sniffy 'metro's' on this forum. But then... I'm not runnin' for Mr. Congeniality either. :uhoh:

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Nothing like this has happened to me, and I agree with you Sonora that it would be quite upsetting for me as well.

Not to bring it up again..but other states have rule on establishments posting "no firearms" on doors at specific spot on front doors...and if it is not posted, you are good to go...if it is not properly posted, you are good to go. This prevents people at a store that are there to work for You, from being a pain in the rear. Being fairly new to Arizona, I wish this was a law here as well.

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My only comment is this: the forum isn't restricted by state of residence. I've lived in a lot of places and, as Navy Lt did, can look up and comment on a statute in any state. If you post, expect responses. That being said, I would have asked to speak to a manager as the kid was no special bailee for ownership of the store. If the manager affirmed it, as is the right under common and statutory law--including in AZ, I would have left, too. This all assumes no signage re this issue at the entrance.