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Thread: Goodbye

  1. #1
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    When I first came to this site I had views on gun control that I now believe were wrong. One good thing has come from me joining these forums. I am a supporter of your goals pertaining to the 2nd amendment.

    I have come to realize that the focus of the community here is to affirm their right to bare arms first, and bash Police, and the justice system, second. Many people here don't fit into this category, but those that don't are OK with the ones that do. My views on most things are drastically different than these people. I am truly sad that so many people are willing to bash Police. It is easy to bash a career that is always in the spotlight. It is not so easy to give praise when praise is do. I would ask that you all have an open mind in the future. Realize that Police Officers are human, just like you. We make mistakes, we make bad decisions, and we do great things, just like anybody else.

    I would also ask that you stare reality in the eye a bit. You are a small community in the scope of things. Your views are not shared by many people. In reality, more people disagree with your views than agree. If the majority of people shared your views, you wouldn't have the uphill battle that you are engaged in right now. When it comes to Police, this is even more true. Most people who are willing to bash Police, like some of you do, are criminals. I'm not calling you all criminals, but some of you share their thoughts. In my career I have found that most law abiding citizens are pro-Police. They don't have bad run ins with Police because they obey the law.

    Everyone here believes that law abiding citizens should be armed if they choose to be.I agree with you 100%. Some people here think that everyone, no matter if they are law abiding, should have the right to be armed. They rationalize this by saying that criminals wont obey the ban anyway. I would like to point out that this type of rationale would have us get rid of all laws. If criminals wont follow the laws anyway, why even try to enforce them, right? Wrong! Laws are made as a deterrent. If people didn't know that they may have to pay for their actions, many law abiding citizens may be tempted to do things that they wouldn't have done otherwise. Some convicted felons and parolees may still Carry concealed, but if there was no against this, many more would.

    When I go home at the end of the day, I always feel proud of myself for being part of such an honorable profession. I have been in situations where life was saved, and situations where life had to be taken. I can say with honesty that I have had a very honorable career. I hope and pray that those of you who command the respect of the younger ones here would be careful at what you preach. When you express anti-Police views, they will do the same. I am not your enemy. The Police aren't your enemy. I am a good man, and I take offense to all the anti-Police propaganda that is taught here.

    Good luck in your cause. I am not going to frequent this site any longer. There is too much disrespect directed towards a very respectful career. I hope that if I am ever in trouble, a law abiding citizen will get my back.



  2. #2
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    As a recently new Emergency Dispatcher for fairly populated county and city, as well as a new resident of a city supporting disarmament, I see first hand the institutionalized discrimination of gun owners on a daily basis. The police aren't the bad guys, the system that tells them they are always right and anyone who isn't reliant on them is persona non grata.

    I'm sorry you feel this way, and that law enforcement is caught in the middle of Rights vs Politics.

    AC

  3. #3
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    Honorable like this? The fact is that some cops are bad and when they are tolerated by the good cops, they become as bad.

    http://www.philly.com/philly/news/20...html?viewAll=y
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    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  4. #4
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    ACEllis wrote:
    law enforcement is caught in the middle of Rights vs Politics.
    Hear your premise, "law enforcement"! They're the toothless tyrant's falsies.

    Remember when they were peace officers? Nope, he deserves everything he perceives from others.

  5. #5
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    A shame that you will not be visiting us anymore. If you ever check up on us though, i'd like you to try to keep something in mind concerning the 'police bashing'.

    It's your shop. You might only be one small wheel on the cog, but it's your shop. The bashing you see on here is a direct result of the harrassment that members have experienced on a personal basis. In the attempt to rectify these situations through the proper avenues, the members here have been stonewalled by people in your shop. When we've taken these things to higher levels, we've been denounced by people in your shop. When we've had all recourse removed from our avenues of redress for grievances, by members of your shop, the result is predictable in the bashing of YOUR shop.

    You may not be directly responsible for any harrassment or later stonewalling, but it's YOUR shop. If you want to see a stop to this bashing, clean up YOUR shop.

    Most all of us on here want nothing more than to be able to work hand in hand with law enforcement in both helping you do your job for the public while you respect our rights and privacy. If that can't be done by members in YOUR shop, that is not OUR fault.

    Clean up YOUR shop and there won't be any reason to bash YOUR shop.

  6. #6
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    Although I slightly agree about your post and that some here are LE bashing, I think that as a whole many of us respect the concept of police, just not the execution of their duties.

    They are the arm of the government and as such will constantly be bashed. Police were once the pillars of a community and I wish this was still the case. I have encountered some police that are really nice guys until they put on the uniform. Then all of a sudden they become someone else with the power to destroy your life.

    I have also on several occasions wanted to leave the boards, but simply ignore the ignorance sometimes displayed by some of its members. . . The specific situation that comes to mind is when I mentioned that I will protect someones right to burn the American flag. . . I was severely attacked for my statement and originally got mad. There are many opinionated people here and I ignore the ignorant ones. . . I hope you can come back and understand this and simply ignore them.

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    Theseus wrote:
    Although I slightly agree about your post and that some here are LE bashing, I think that as a whole many of us respect the concept of police, just not the execution of their duties.
    I think this sums up the general attitude fairly well. LE has sharp lines drawn around their areas of responsibility/authority, yet they consistently step over those lines and wonder why people don't like them.

  8. #8
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    Yeeecchhh!



    Goodbye threads.....:X

  9. #9
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    I agree with Theseus and his words reflect my own sentiments.

    Sucks he feels that way.

  10. #10
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    ok well it sucks that youre leaving, hopefully youll come back someday. at least we had changed his mind on OC.

  11. #11
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    DKSuddeth wrote:
    It's your shop. You might only be one small wheel on the cog, but it's your shop. The bashing you see on here is a direct result of the harrassment that members have experienced on a personal basis. In the attempt to rectify these situations through the proper avenues, the members here have been stonewalled by people in your shop. When we've taken these things to higher levels, we've been denounced by people in your shop. When we've had all recourse removed from our avenues of redress for grievances, by members of your shop, the result is predictable in the bashing of YOUR shop.

    You may not be directly responsible for any harrassment or later stonewalling, but it's YOUR shop. If you want to see a stop to this bashing, clean up YOUR shop.

    Most all of us on here want nothing more than to be able to work hand in hand with law enforcement in both helping you do your job for the public while you respect our rights and privacy. If that can't be done by members in YOUR shop, that is not OUR fault.

    Clean up YOUR shop and there won't be any reason to bash YOUR shop.
    +1

    Putting on that uniform doesn't give you a Teflon coating. When an officer does something unconstitutional, unethical, or immoral, (s)he deserves the verbal "bashing" (s)he gets. Officers are very stick-together-ish, for many practical reasons. Don't take it personally when we "bash" another person in uniform. We are speaking out about unconstitutional, unethical, and immoral behavior, not against uniforms or authority.

    Stop treading on me, and I'll stop complaining about it.
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    Don't Tread On Me.

  12. #12
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    Best of luck CaCop. All of us have our institutional prejudices. You overcame yours to a much larger degree than many. I appreciate your open mind and ability to reason.

  13. #13
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    i know ive been guilty of bashing cops on these forums in the past. due to recent things in my life i would like to recant those statements and appologize. police arent our enemies; they are just doing their job.

    honestly if any of us were LEO's and saw someone with a gun and didnt know aboutUOCwhat would we think and do? the exact same thing.

    i work with the clovispolice alot with my current job. they are great people and only care about the well being of my city and are working with us to rid the mall i work forof its current problem with being over run with gang members.



  14. #14
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    poothrowingape wrote:
    i know ive been guilty of bashing cops on these forums in the past. due to recent things in my life i would like to recant those statements and appologize. police arent our enemies; they are just doing their job.

    honestly if any of us were LEO's and saw someone with a gun and didnt know aboutUOCwhat would we think and do? the exact same thing.

    [Nope. If no laws are being broken, why would I make unfounded assumptions? In states where open carry is common the police do not harass open carriers. This is the environment we are trying to foster in CA.]

    i work with the clovispolice alot with my current job. they are great people and only care about the well being of my city and are working with us to rid the mall i work forof its current problem with being over run with gang members.

    [How many of those gang members are lawfully openly carrying a firearm? Or do they keep it stuffed down their baggy pants?]

    The comments in blue are mine.

  15. #15
    Regular Member demnogis's Avatar
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    Hopefully, you'll decide to come back.
    Gun control isn't about guns -- it is about control.

  16. #16
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    I wasn't going to comment on this, as it is my habit to ignore posts proclaiming "goodbye" or "farewell"- as they are usually posted as a weather balloonby needy, attention seeking children. I do not believe that is the case with CaCop.

    I do think that CaCop has misunderstood the focus of our frustrations. You see, I don't dislike police and I dont believe that anyone here could honestly say they hated policemen. The problem is that when we voice our frustrations of how police conduct themselves, we do not seperate the bad action from police work in general. I do not think that all police officersare bad, but I do keep in mind that policemen are human, that police work occasionally attracts tyrants, bullies and would be criminals- as such power is attractive to their personalities.

    Because such tyrants, bullies, and criminals exist everywhere, our small community needs the support ofpeace officerswho uphold the Constitution and the tenents of liberty. Whether CaCop returns or not is irrelvantat this point- though I believe we should season our comments so we would not irrevocably withdraw the "Welcome" mat toLEO'sat OCDO's door.
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  17. #17
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    I captured him sneaking back on line right now :PHey CaCop, have you checked out Calguns.net?

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  18. #18
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    cato wrote:
    I captured him sneaking back on line right now :PHey CaCop, have you checked out Calguns.net?

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    Oh Cato, you warm even the subcockles of my heart!

  19. #19
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    I find your reason to abandon a new found common interest of preserving the 2nd a COP out. You mention folks bash your profession (an honorable one at that), the justice system and this forum having those that support these actions. Now I’ve been in the military for 24 years and have been bashed as a member of the Armed Forces by Americans with different views, many of them hold a national political office. Step back and admit that many in your profession bash those outside of their click of lawmen, they speak ill of the justice system when they have spent countless hours staking out and nailing the worst of the worst burger eaters in the neighborhood just to have a pencil neck liberal lawyer put them back on the streets the very next day. Many in your profession would tell you to your face only they should own or carry firearms. Tell me it doesn’t happen… I know it does, I know them from my 26 years now retired LE father.

    If an individual runs and hides when criticism, concern, fear, or anger is thrown in a particular direction with facts, observations, concerns rage or disgust and one can’t process it with out feeling hurt and quitting, than I say there’s more then you admit to your reason for removing yourself from a cause you support.

    Every walk of life has these issues, challenges, people called numb nuts, and another right of freedom to express. I would hope you don’t quite your day job because you soon realize the same type of citizens exist in the department as do in McDonalds, the local retail mall, the military, the saw mill, the Beltway. caCOP we are talking mainstream America here, and yes they post and vent on all kinds of forums. LE are citizens first, I fear to many these days find themselves above citizenship and feel they are more part of the local political system standing taller than their neighbor, more worried if they don’t drink the kool aid they could find themselves a regular citizen again. If you value the 2nd as you say then use that passion to educate those in your circle. I don’t give a rats ass what profession a person represents as long as they represent American’s and the rights we cherish. Lastly, a butt load of folks on here from every walk of life have been bashed and butt hurt, they get over it and return to the common cause, hell I’ve been beat good on my grammar skills and I keep pecking away. Hope to see you back and pecking away soon!
    Im proudly straight. I'm free to not support Legalization, GLBT, Illegal Aliens, or the Islamization of America.

  20. #20
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    I have no desire in bashing LE. I come from a law enforcement family even was going to go into the field.

    Just know that not everyone has had a good experience with the police, so don't take it personal I know its hard not to.

    Imo if you leave you do yourself a disservice.

    BTW exuse my sucky spelling I am typing with a broken finger and I am in typo overload and not a hope in catching them all.


  21. #21
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    cacop leaving is not good for anyone.

    This post is in support of all pollice officers who have to face difficult situtations without knowing when or where.

    We have the right to carry, but officers have the right to be careful and go home at the end of their shift.

    I know both the officers in this incident very well, and have a pending law suit against the Sgt. in this article, but they are both decent individuals.

    I made a comment to Det. O'Brien about his need for marksmanship rehab and he told me the story and there's a very interesting piece of evidence that should open everyones eyes when it's made public.

    I also wonder why the other officers didn't fire when faced with someone pointing a weapon at them in a threatening life or death manner.

    I believe that mistakes were made in this situation by every officer except Det. O'Brien who took the shots when confronted with deadly force!!

    Read for yourself:

    DEFENDANTS: POLICE CHIEF, EIGHT OFFICERS

    Man Convicted In Rocky Hill Gun Incident Sues Police
    By CHRISTINE DEMPSEY | The Hartford Courant
    March 3, 2009

    ROCKY HILL — - A man who was shot at by police after he repeatedly pointed a rifle at officers during an incident in 2007 is suing the town, saying police used excessive force.

    Derek Greenwald's lawsuit was filed last month in Superior Court in Hartford and has since been moved to U.S. District Court. It names Police Chief Michael Custer and eight officers — including a lieutenant and a sergeant — who were at the tense scene on the night of Nov. 9, 2007. They are being sued as individuals and in their official capacities; Greenwald is asking for more than $2,500.

    The lawsuit says police arrested Greenwald without probable cause and says, "At no time did the plaintiff threaten or pose a danger of bodily harm."

    The suit doesn't mention that Greenwald had a gun and that he was arrested and convicted of two counts of criminal attempt to commit assault on an officer. Neither Greenwald's lawyer, A. Paul Spinella, nor Custer could be reached for comment.

    The suit says Greenwald "suffered disabling injuries, including ... post-traumatic stress disorder, depression, loss of dignity, anxiety, loss of professional job, loss of enjoyment of life's activities, emotional distress and psychological pain and suffering."

    The suit accuses Custer of failing to properly monitor and investigate such incidents and to train officers how to respond to situations involving emotionally disturbed people.

    According to a police report, the incident began when a woman called police at 5:41 p.m. to tell them her ex-boyfriend had said he was going to shoot himself. Eight officers responded to Greenwald's house on Farmstead Road, where they found him in his backyard holding a rifle, police said.

    When officers tried to talk to him, "he pointed the rifle at Officers [Joseph] Phelps and [Jon] Lammers," a police report says. He then ran toward a wooded area that separates some backyards on Farmstead Road from an adjoining business, Double A Transportation.

    Officers tried to convince Greenwald to drop the gun, but he refused, pointing it at Phelps and Lammers "several times," the report says. Greenwald ran into the wooded area and kept moving in and out of the tree line, police said. All the while, he pointed the rifle at Phelps and Lammers, police said.

    Greenwald then approached Sgt. Leonard Kulas and Det. Andrew O'Brien, who were on the Double A Transportation property. He was holding the rifle straight out in front of him, the report says, and he began to raise the muzzle end of the gun. The officers aimed their handguns at him and yelled for him to put the rifle down, but he "continued to raise the muzzle of the rifle" toward the officers, the report says.

    O'Brien fired his gun twice and Greenwald dropped to the ground, but he wasn't injured.

    The lawsuit describes a different scenario.

    It says officers "began charging" Greenwald, screaming "in an unintelligible, chaotic fashion." Greenwald was terrified, according to the lawsuit.

    "Because of the darkness, and the blinding flashlight rays trained upon him, the plaintiff could not reasonably identify the men rushing at him as police officers," the suit says.

    While running away, according to the lawsuit, he heard one of the men chasing him yell, "I've got a shot!" to which another responded, "Take it!"

    Then, as he approached Kulas and O'Brien, the suit says, they "failed to adequately identify themselves as police officers."


  22. #22
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    ‘All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing’Edmund Burke...........so true.......


  23. #23
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    pullnshoot25 wrote:
    cato wrote:
    I captured him sneaking back on line right now :PHey CaCop, have you checked out Calguns.net?

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    Oh Cato, you warm even the subcockles of my heart!
    subcockles...lol. You're killing me.

  24. #24
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    Mr. Perulta, I don't see the relevence of that story with his "departure" from these forums. Interesting read as always, but...what am I missing? Are you indicating that he's one of those officers involved and thus tied up with legal proceedings? If not, I don't get it.

  25. #25
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    dizarmyguy wrote:
    ‘All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing’Edmund Burke...........so true.......
    http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Edmund_Burke#Misattributed
    Probable misattribution
    • All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.
      • This is probably the most quoted statement attributed to Burke, and an extraordinary number of variants of it exist, but all without any definite original source. These very extensively used "quotations" may be based on a paraphrase of some of Burke's ideas, but he is not known to have ever declared them in such a manner in any of his writings. It may have been adapted from these lines of Burke's in his Thoughts on the Cause of Present Discontents (1770): "When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle."
    Burke's alleged quote bears a striking resemblance to the narrated theme of Sergei Bondarchuk's Soviet film adaptation of Leo Tolstoy's book "War and Peace", in which the narrator declares "All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing", although since the original is in Russian various translations to English are possible.
    See some of the admirable research done on this matter at these two links: Burkequote & Burkequote2 — as the research at these links points out, there are many variants of this statement, probably because there is no clearly definitive original by Burke, some of them being:


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