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Thread: Arkansas open carry bill fails on committee voice vote

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    http://www.todaysthv.com/news/local/...10&catid=2

    Ark. Panel Rejects Open-Carry Bill

    A House committee has rejected a measure that would have allowed people 21 and older to openly carry handguns in holsters.

    The House Judiciary Committee on Tuesday rejected the proposal by Rep. Mark Martin of Prairie Grove. Martin argued that dozens of states permit the open carry of weapons, and that lawmakers should trust gun owners to use and display the firearms responsibly.

    But members questioned why Martin's bill didn't include a required license or coursework, like the state's concealed-carry license does.

    The bill failed on a voice vote.

    --

    More coverage:





    Ark. panel rejects open-carry bill - FOX16.com
    A House committee has rejected a measure that would have allowed people 21 and older to openly carry handguns in holsters.
    FOX16 Local News - http://www.fox16.com/news/local/


    Under the Dome: Open carry bill fails in House Judiciary
    By Steve Harrelson
    Mark Martin's bill to allow for the open carry of firearms and other weapons failed on a voice vote this morning in House Judiciary. Prior to the vote, the bill was amended to provide for a minimum age of 21. ...
    Under the Dome - http://www.underthedome.com/


    Bill to allow open carrying of firearms fails in committee ...
    By Zack Stovall
    Martin said after the vote he planned to request an interim study on his proposal. Arkansas has some of the most prohibitive gun laws in the nation, he said. “Forty-four states have some form of open carry. Only six do not,” he said. ...
    Arkansas News - http://arkansasnews.com/




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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator Gray Peterson's Avatar
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    Ok, then if the issue with this committee is that they want it to be folded into the currently licensing statute, then let's do it?

    Open carry for the most part is currently banned in Arkansas. Why not fold it into the PTC system and be done with it now.

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    Unfortunate, but not unexpected. I thank Rep. Martin for sticking to principles and not giving in to the licensing requirement.



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    Regular Member AZkopper's Avatar
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    In most cases, especially with 'revolutionary' ideas (like actually following the Constitution), incrementalism is the way to go. The anti's learned that long ago. Perhaps its time we played the same game. As long as the end game is the same (unlicensed open carry), it is good to go. At least AK would have had some form of open carry to start with. 'Sticking to your guns' got them nowhere.

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    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    Does Arkansas have a Constitution that allow people to keep and bear arms. If all the people that signed the petition donated a $100 for a law suit, perhaps that would be the way to go. But again I'm not up onyour state laws.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    Venator wrote:
    Does Arkansas have a Constitution that allow people to keep and bear arms.
    It's quite weak, unfortunately. The Arkansas constitution doesn't guarantee an individual RKBA for self defense.

    Article 2. Declaration of Rights.

    § 5. Right to bear arms.

    The citizens of this State shall have the right to keep and bear arms, for their common defense.




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    KBCraig wrote:
    Venator wrote:
    Does Arkansas have a Constitution that allow people to keep and bear arms.
    It's quite weak, unfortunately. The Arkansas constitution doesn't guarantee an individual RKBA for self defense.

    Article 2. Declaration of Rights.

    § 5. Right to bear arms.

    The citizens of this State shall have the right to keep and bear arms, for their common defense.



    It's stronger than the USA 2nd. It seems clear that individuals have a right to bear arms for their defense. Screw the common defense whatever way you want to spin that term.

    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    I was definitely hoping that this would go through, would be nice if the licensing would make it happen

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    Its a real shame that it did not go to a full vote of the legislature so everyone could see where their reps and senators stood on the bill. Hopefully the fight will continue!

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    I think Arky has a open carry on shotguns and rifles...and as for hand guns the law is ...as long as you are on a journey...from what I understand the Journey Law is your Defense when Open Carry is in question.

    I was also told that the State Game and Fish set gun laws for the state of Arkansas, and that is why you can be charged if you open carry including rifles or shotguns as well as handguns when there is not a Legal season on game/fur bearing animals and you are in and area considered wildlife cover...which was off of the blacktop basically.



    Was sent and email a few years back on this from the Ark. State Police...when I questioned the open carry laws here as I had come from Arizona.

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    AZkopper wrote:
    In most cases, especially with 'revolutionary' ideas (like actually following the Constitution), incrementalism is the way to go. The anti's learned that long ago. Perhaps its time we played the same game. As long as the end game is the same (unlicensed open carry), it is good to go. At least AK would have had some form of open carry to start with. 'Sticking to your guns' got them nowhere.
    I agree with you 100%! I see no reason that some form of initial classwork on education for those OCers would present a problem. I mean, police need to get training. They just aren't trained in traffic stops, investigation, handling crowds, etc....... and then just handed a gun and told "Have a big time with it!". LOL!!

    Any type of carry should have some education to go along with it...basically from a legal standpoint. What is, and isn't, legal in the state in which you will be carrying. I learned a lot in my class for the S.C. CWP, and I'm glad I had to take it to get a license. What if I had to dig up all that stuff myself? Where would I have started? Or would I have been one of the unfortunate ones that found out the laws when I was standing in front of the Judge? Not the way I want to learn. LOL!!

    OH, I know I'm from SC, but I hope you didn't mind me butting in on a discussion of what is YOUR State's choice. Hope I didn't offend anybody. Just trying to offer up another way of viewing the subject.



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    GOV5 wrote:
    Any type of carry should have some education to go along with it...
    The key word there is "should". I say the key word shouldn't be "must"!

    The Second Amendment does not say if you are trained, then your right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. In fact, I don't see anywhere in the Constitution where a person must be trained to exercise his God-given rights.

    If you settle for Open Carry with a permit, you are settling for the legislature to always bein able to have control over your rights. If that is the only way Arkansas will pass open carry, so be it; however, it will be over my strong protests! Arkansas legislators should not be able to outlaw any law-abiding citizen from exercising his right to bare arms.

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    I'd suggest finding a few anti-gun legislators that are vulnerable in an election, get with the NRA(they do have some value in this regard)and get them booted out. Go at them hard and make an example of them and see if you can get others to change their opinion.

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    damn. well don't give up, go again. i may visit your state, have in the past. good thing my penn. non-res. will at least allow me to enjoy your state comfortably, if i get there again. oc would have been a sweet option.
    and on that note; i'd rather ask those assembled, than ccdotwhatever. so what's the rules there? no bars, schools, public buildings? what about parks? any comments welcome.

    and a rant to think about: what the hell is the public's problem with oc? they get owly, and nothing happens. like in your state; the legislature guys says; no blah, blah, and no training. c'mon man. alot of the world knows us around starbucks, damn near every apprentice oc-er ends up here. as i did, as you did, to get trained. so odds are the ocer you see is equal to or better on laws than you. anything to be scared of?

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    Notso wrote:
    I'd suggest finding a few anti-gun legislators that are vulnerable in an election, get with the NRA(they do have some value in this regard)and get them booted out. Go at them hard and make an example of them and see if you can get others to change their opinion.
    I'd suggest starting the ACDL, myself.
    Why open carry? Because 1911 > 911.

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    Given that the present HB1051 presently in commitee is virtually the same as the bill proposed by Rep. Mike Martin a year ago, I'm now wondering if open carry bills are being proposed with wording intentionally omitting any requirements which would assuage commitee members' concerns and allow an open carry bill to pass into the house for a vote. Is this a pre-emptive "blocking" tactic to indefinitely put off legalizing open carry in Arkansas? Hmmmmm...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Attaboy View Post
    Given that the present HB1051 presently in commitee is virtually the same as the bill proposed by Rep. Mike Martin a year ago, I'm now wondering if open carry bills are being proposed with wording intentionally omitting any requirements which would assuage commitee members' concerns and allow an open carry bill to pass into the house for a vote. Is this a pre-emptive "blocking" tactic to indefinitely put off legalizing open carry in Arkansas? Hmmmmm...
    Considering HB1051 failed today and that the hearing was basically a sham, it makes me wonder this myself.

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    Arkansas Code 5-73-120(a) States: ...[w]ith The Intent to Employ it Against Another [Person].

    NO Intent, NO Crime!

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    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KBCraig View Post
    Venator wrote:
    It's quite weak, unfortunately. The Arkansas constitution doesn't guarantee an individual RKBA for self defense.

    Article 2. Declaration of Rights.

    § 5. Right to bear arms.

    The citizens of this State shall have the right to keep and bear arms, for their common defense.
    I don't think that is such a weak statement...maybe not up to Washington state's Article 1 section 24, but better than some other states that allow OC.

    "common defense" does not necessarily preclude your carry for your own personal defense as well as the defense of others. It definately does not have to stupid "milita" statement in it, so that argument is out the window.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Attaboy View Post
    Given that the present HB1051 presently in commitee is virtually the same as the bill proposed by Rep. Mike Martin a year ago, I'm now wondering if open carry bills are being proposed with wording intentionally omitting any requirements which would assuage commitee members' concerns and allow an open carry bill to pass into the house for a vote. Is this a pre-emptive "blocking" tactic to indefinitely put off legalizing open carry in Arkansas? Hmmmmm...
    How about putting the best construction on Mr. Martin and his desire for a constitutional option,

    Remember, the 2A says "shall not be infrnged". The courts have also stated that 'if you license a "right", it is no longer a "right" but a privilage". I am 100% for Mr Matin and his desire...I think he is 100% correct.

    I live in WA, we have unlicensed OC and always have had. Our state constitution specifically states that a person can "bear arms" for his/her own personal self defense, as well as that of the state. It has been held up in our courts, If you wish to license CC, you have to allow OC without a license. The state of Idaho courts say the same, as does Oregon and their state constitutional statements are not as cut and dried as WA is. In fact, ID's constitutional statement is almost identical to OK and IL's wording...go figure.

    Your state consititutionall statement is not that much different than WA's. IMHO: If you took it to court you would have your unlicensed OC without any problems.
    Last edited by hermannr; 03-09-2012 at 04:13 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Attaboy View Post
    Given that the present HB1051 presently in commitee is virtually the same as the bill proposed by Rep. Mike Martin a year ago, I'm now wondering if open carry bills are being proposed with wording intentionally omitting any requirements which would assuage commitee members' concerns and allow an open carry bill to pass into the house for a vote. Is this a pre-emptive "blocking" tactic to indefinitely put off legalizing open carry in Arkansas? Hmmmmm...
    I know over here in OK we were having a similar issue in regards to certain things killing OC for us, only for us it has to do with cops being able to stop OCers and demand ID and the requiring a CWL (soon to be HWL) to OC. Even though it's not ideal, it was our 2A legislators who told us that these things need to stay in the bill or else it would risk not passing and we can work on getting them changed/removed after we have OC.

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    I would suggest amending your right to bear arms amendment with much stronger wording! Get it introduced in the legislature, get it passed and sent to the people for ratification! If you had a constitutional amendment like Ky does, then you could win unlicensed open carry through the courts. We have had unlicensed OC since statehood and haven't had a problem in over 200 years with that right. When we venture into the CHAMBERS of our state Capitol, or into city or county commission meetings, state law requires us to OC, since cc is banned in these places. OC is allowed and can't be prohibited do to our state pre-emption in every state, city, and county owned building, and again, NO PROBLEMS!! Ky's constitutional amendment:


    All men are, by nature, free and equal, and have certain inherent and inalienable rights, among which may be reckoned: The right to bear arms in defense of themselves and of the State, subject to the power of the General Assembly to enact laws to prevent persons from carrying concealed weapons.

    Only concealed weapons can be controlled in my state, and we have no restrictions on openly carried firearms! Local units of government can deny your right to openly bear other deadly weapons besides firearms inside their buildings, but most don't. We can OC any deadly weapon in Ky, and that's the way it should be everywhere!

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