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Thread: The CPL must be concealed at all times, lie.

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    Regular Member MarineSgt's Avatar
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    I received my CPL in 2003 and remember that I was always worried about printing or being "made". I think I was worried about being charged with brandishing. I read the open carry info on the forum here and see the AG opinion about brandishing.

    Why is the lie that if you have a CPL it must always be concealed still being told. I talked to a guy two days ago at the Sheriff's office that was getting his CPL for the first time. He was mistaken as well and said he was told in his class that he had to stay concealed.

    MarineSgt
    Someone who can't be trusted to walk free in public with a firearm shouldn't be walking around free.

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    MarineSgt wrote:
    I received my CPL in 2003 and remember that I was always worried about printing or being "made". I think I was worried about being charged with brandishing. I read the open carry info on the forum here and see the AG opinion about brandishing.

    Why is the lie that if you have a CPL it must always be concealed still being told. I talked to a guy two days ago at the Sheriff's office that was getting his CPL for the first time. He was mistaken as well and said he was told in his class that he had to stay concealed.

    MarineSgt
    Many in the concealed carry crowd are worried that we will scare the sheep and they will react with horror and fight to get all guns out-lawed. In fact the opposite is true as 4 of the 6 states that outlaw OC are having petition drives to get OC legalized in their states.

    They also feel that the police will get called every time a gun is seen. We have shown this not to be the case as hundreds of people now OC in Michigan and only a few times have the police been called. Most times it's the Police that see the gun and make contact.


    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    Regular Member Bronson's Avatar
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    MarineSgt wrote:
    Why is the lie that if you have a CPL it must always be concealed still being told.
    Money, always follow the money.

    Bronson
    Those who expect to reap the benefits of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. – Thomas Paine

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    Regular Member Taurus850CIA's Avatar
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    Venator wrote:
    MarineSgt wrote:
    I received my CPL in 2003 and remember that I was always worried about printing or being "made". I think I was worried about being charged with brandishing. I read the open carry info on the forum here and see the AG opinion about brandishing.

    Why is the lie that if you have a CPL it must always be concealed still being told. I talked to a guy two days ago at the Sheriff's office that was getting his CPL for the first time. He was mistaken as well and said he was told in his class that he had to stay concealed.

    MarineSgt
    Many in the concealed carry crowd are worried that we will scare the sheep and they will react with horror and fight to get all guns out-lawed. In fact the opposite is true as 4 of the 6 states that outlaw OC are having petition drives to get OC legalized in their states.

    They also feel that the police will get called every time a gun is seen. We have shown this not to be the case as hundreds of people now OC in Michigan and only a few times have the police been called. Most times it's the Police that see the gun and make contact.

    I am beginning to come to the conclusion that the biggest problem is that people have a strong tendency to believe the first thing they are told on a subject. It takes much, much more time and information to change a persons mind about something after the initial seed has been planted than it took to plant that seed, even if the second thing they are told makes more sense. It is change, and folks resist that.
    "Fault always lies in the same place, my fine babies: with him weak enough to lay blame." - Cort

    Gun control is like trying to reduce Drunk Driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars.

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    Maybe we should work at getting a few firearms instructor's licenses pulled for teaching incorrect information. If they are telling their students that OC is illegal, I am sorry, I do not feel they have any ability to teach anyone anything about firearm laws and regulations.

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    Regular Member Taurus850CIA's Avatar
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    PilotPTK wrote:
    Maybe we should work at getting a few firearms instructor's licenses pulled for teaching incorrect information. If they are telling their students that OC is illegal, I am sorry, I do not feel they have any ability to teach anyone anything about firearm laws and regulations.
    That may be difficult, especially now that the word is spreading. My business partner just took his class. His instructors never said that OC is illegal. They also did not say specifically that it legally must stay concealed, but they IMPLIED that it needs to stay out of sight. It sounds like they may know the score, but they are still teaching their opinion. If the school systems are any indication, teaching opinion is not illegal.
    "Fault always lies in the same place, my fine babies: with him weak enough to lay blame." - Cort

    Gun control is like trying to reduce Drunk Driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars.

    Sentio aliquos togatos contra me conspirare.

    The answer to "1984" is "
    1776"

    With freedom comes much responsibility. It is for this reason so many are loathe to exercise it.

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    Taurus850CIA wrote:
    SNIP
    I am beginning to come to the conclusion that the biggest problem is that people have a strong tendency to believe the first thing they are told on a subject. SNIP
    +1 Taurus. I could go on for a month of Sundays with this statement but I'm going to stop here as I would certainly be banned fromOCDO before I was through.

    ETA: Welcome to OCDO MarineSgt.




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    When I got my CPL in January the instructor clearly stated open carry was legal. He mentioned the risk involved (law problems, etc.). Said the the local PD knows it's legal (he was a deputy) and that it kind of retracts from the point of taking a CPL course.

    He did lein heavily toward CC though, but he was fair on the legal portion.

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    Regular Member MarineSgt's Avatar
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    I have a friend that is a former Grand Rapids police officer and detective. I spoke with him this morning and he knew open carry was legal. He said he has never seen it done before.

    His only concern with regular citizens carrying is the lack of weapons retention training.


    Someone who can't be trusted to walk free in public with a firearm shouldn't be walking around free.

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    Regular Member DanM's Avatar
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    MarineSgt wrote:
    His only concern with regular citizens carrying is the lack of weapons retention training.
    My reply would be, "Show me the evidence that this is a problem, otherwise it's not a real problem."

    That's pretty much my standard response to any speculative statement of a "concern" or a "problem".
    "The principle of self-defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi . . ."--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr

    “He who cannot protect himself or his nearest and dearest or their honor by non-violently facing death, may and ought to do so by violently dealing with the oppressor. He who can do neither of the two is a burden.”--M. K. Gandhi

    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." --M. K. Gandhi

  11. #11
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    MarineSgt wrote:
    I have a friend that is a former Grand Rapids police officer and detective. I spoke with him this morning and he knew open carry was legal. He said he has never seen it done before.

    His only concern with regular citizens carrying is the lack of weapons retention training.

    I think a lot of non-LEOs have weapons retention training, i.e., self trained, military, former LEO, etc. And with todays retention holsters, weaponretention is vastly improved since the days of yore.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  12. #12
    Regular Member Bronson's Avatar
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    MarineSgt wrote:
    His only concern with regular citizens carrying is the lack of weapons retention training.

    I am an aikido instructor. Aikido uses a lot of wrist & joint locks, throws, etc.

    I recently had a part time police officer and graduate of a Michigan police academy come to my class. She was interested in expanding her knowledge of what was taught at the academy. I asked her to show us some of the stuff she had learned and there really wasn't that much. More disturbingly because she doesn't practice it on a regular basis shehad adifficult timeremembering what she had been taught.

    Learning weapons retention techniques andknowing weapons retention techniquesare two completely different things.

    Bronson
    Those who expect to reap the benefits of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. – Thomas Paine

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    I have a real problem with being called a regular citizen, especially by a cop. Like cops are better than us.

    Cops are some of the worse shots, and don't get me started on the corruption in law enforcement.Thats all I got to say about that!

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    Taurus850CIA wrote:
    Venator wrote:
    MarineSgt wrote:
    I received my CPL in 2003 and remember that I was always worried about printing or being "made". I think I was worried about being charged with brandishing. I read the open carry info on the forum here and see the AG opinion about brandishing.

    Why is the lie that if you have a CPL it must always be concealed still being told. I talked to a guy two days ago at the Sheriff's office that was getting his CPL for the first time. He was mistaken as well and said he was told in his class that he had to stay concealed.

    MarineSgt
    Many in the concealed carry crowd are worried that we will scare the sheep and they will react with horror and fight to get all guns out-lawed. In fact the opposite is true as 4 of the 6 states that outlaw OC are having petition drives to get OC legalized in their states.

    They also feel that the police will get called every time a gun is seen. We have shown this not to be the case as hundreds of people now OC in Michigan and only a few times have the police been called. Most times it's the Police that see the gun and make contact.

    I am beginning to come to the conclusion that the biggest problem is that people have a strong tendency to believe the first thing they are told on a subject. It takes much, much more time and information to change a persons mind about something after the initial seed has been planted than it took to plant that seed, even if the second thing they are told makes more sense. It is change, and folks resist that.
    Um Ya think?

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    There was a time when "printing" was a real concern. Basically that went out the window when Michigan went "Shall Issue" instead of being "may issue". However, the fact that Michigan currently has no laws against OC without a permit, and has pre-emption, means that there are no legal concerns about "printing" that can legally be enforced. Which is why some PDD's or DA's fall back on a brandishing charge, which is crap.

    However, Cops do, and always will, HATE Man WithA Gun calls. How would you like driving up on a scene where you don't know the layout, the person reporting, or the person carrying, knowing that it may be a possible ambush? It's not going to put you at ease to say the least. So, if it happens, you should expect them to be somewhat hostile and VERY cautious, which means they may approach you with guns drawn. So, if your carrying concealed, it's still a damn good idea to choose an appropriate method of concealment for what you are wearing.

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