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Thread: How does "Terror to the Public" play into an anti-gun person just being a jerk?

  1. #1
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    Greetings everyone, I am new to open carry and being a former Marine, feel better about keeping myself and my family safer in todays world. I carry a Glock 23C and when I do carry, I really do not get any kind of looks of despair or shock. A friend of mine who has a permit to cc mentioned that the problem I may run into is that one person, being a man or a woman who sees my gun on my side and suddenly screams out they feel threatened and calls the police. I may be just simply standing in line waiting to pay for a purchase, getting gas or whatever. The point is, I am not doing a thing that would be a threat just by having the gun carried. My question is, am I quilty as far as leos are concerned just by that one person complaining? I live in Greensboro, NC and if anyone could shed any light on this, I would be greateful. If is covered on another posting, I am sorry for repeating the question and if it could be pointed out to me, then thank you very much.

    I support open carry as I believe prevention is just as important as stopping a crime. I look forward to learning as much as I can from this site and this forum. Thank all of you for your inputs, your news and your opinions.

    Semper Fi!

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    Semper Fi from an Air Force brother. Being as I live in the gunshine state (Florida) I can tell you people here just act that way anyway. They have no regard for any others because they are caught up in "their daily life" and expect people to give them anything they want. I was stationed at Shady J for a long time in the 80sand folks there were generally nice and comfortable with everyone else. My son is in Fayetteville now and I see folks there as getting the "it's all about me" syndrome. I usually break the ice by being polite and that folks respond in kind. But of course there are days I wish to rip their little heads off and puke down their neck.:what: I restrain myself though. I learned a lot of self restraint inmy 20 years of service. I can tell you GI's in general are much nicer to deal with because we all knew the "rules of engagement". Even though we didn't agree with someone we still respected the rank or opinion. Civilian's on the other hand are not as versed in those rules and therefore ignorance of the law is their reasoning behind a lot of their antics. Just remember "situational awareness" is the key to a lot of encounters. Now the question of law enforcement I can tell you most of them do not know all the laws. Genarally speaking they know the basics but in certain places in NC. you may get "carded" for your CHP because you are carrying. Even though I believea CHP is not needed for open carry you may be asked for identification so you may be cleared for any "wrong doing". Moderators please correct me if I'm wrong. Unfortunately we as carrying folks need to be morepolite than most to prove our innocence in "going armed to the terror of the public" (GATTTOTP) I'm positive you will find more local information in the North Carolina section of this forum but it is best to make sure you search out NC statutes linked through http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/northcarolina.pdfand other state links. Carrying a weapon daily is a big responsibility and as such we need to educate those who don't think like we do. Ratt402 thank you for your service and againSEMPER FI!



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    Up herein Wisconsin 'Disorderly Conduct" was the typical charge if a LEO didn't like seing someone besides themselves armed. There were a few cases that went to the higher courts and they made a statement that if an uber-sensitive person is bothered, it does not warrant a D-C charge. We also had 3 recent cases where innocent people were arrested for O-C'ing, all three cases got dismissed and property returned after their day in court. We are now waiting for the cleared defendents to file civil suits for their rights being violated. (Take a look in the WI threads for some great info too)

    If I was you, I would take a real close look at your state specific forum, find out what others have had to deal with, and as Eagle Eye mentioned research your state laws and make sure state law preempts any local laws that may try to be more restrictive.

    Carry a digital voice recorder on your person to record any contact with L-E so if a court case does come about you more easliy battle a LEO that is lying while on the stand.

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    Going Armed to the Terror of the Public is a common Law Statute in NC.
    If you do a search for GATTTOP, you can find a number of threads on the topic.

    It has 4 qualifications that must be met for the charge to hold. You may be threatened with it by the uninformed, or even charged with it in a worst case scenario, but it would not hold.

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    Ratt402 wrote:
    ......I may run into is that one person, being a man or a woman who sees my gun on my side and suddenly screams out they feel threatened and calls the police. I may be just simply standing in line waiting to pay for a purchase, getting gas or whatever. The point is, I am not doing a thing that would be a threat just by having the gun carried. My question is, am I quilty as far as leos are concerned just by that one person complaining?
    You aren't doing anything wrong and he cops can't do much about it. But here's the problem and I've dealt with it myself.

    You are OCing within the law. No problems. You are friendly and not threatening anyone. Yet some jerkwad feels nervous and calls the police or the manager of the establishment.

    Now remember, you are there spending your dollars just like everyone esle. But the cops show up to investigate and/or the manager is involved.

    Do they kick the nervous nelly out the door and tell them that if they can't face living in the real world they should just stay home? No. More than likely the police or manager will put the burden on you.

    YOU are making that poor guy over there Nervous. It's not his fault. It'sYOURS for displaying your bangstick. Your money is just as green as his but we want to be a good manager and look like we are doing something to give our customers a safe and pleasent shopping experiance.

    So, you mister gunnut, should leave the premises. Yes, we noticed you standing in line with cash in hand paying your bill just like everyone else but you and your gun are just too scary. So please go away so that our other customers can live secure in their minds that nobody will hurt them because as long as they don't ever see a gun, handle a gun or hang around anyone who knows anything about guns they will be safe.

    All it takes is one person, one asshat, who makes just one subtle complaint to have you removed and interfere with what would otherwise be a normal consumer transaction.

    I've often wondered if an effective anti-gun tactic would be to follow an OCer around from place to place and each time the Law Abiding Citizen goes into a place of business the Anti calls management and issues a strong complaint.

    For instance, OCer drops by Radio Shack for a pack of batteries and to check out the new GPS they have on the shelf. Antigun jerk sees the OCer and complaines to the manager. Manager tells OC guy that he'd like him to leave the Radio Shack. OC guy leaves. Antiguy, smirks and having nothing else to do since it's his day off from work, follows the OCer at a distance.

    OCer walks over across the street to a Walgreens for his batteries. A couple of minutes Antigun guy walks in, points out OCguy to a store employee and makes a nervous complaint and says something along the lines of "You let anyone just walk in with a gun? What if he trys to kill all of us? There are kids shopping here." Before OCguy can find the batteries he wants the manager is on the phone with the cops. By the time OCguy is heading for the checkout line the cops are there talking to the manager and OCguy is getting hasseled. OCguy is asked to leave the store because the manager says that he's getting complaints from other customers. OC guy leaves without his batteries. Again. Antiguy smirks. This is getting fun. He'll show this gun nut about displaying a dangerous weapon to the kids and socer moms of this peaceful town.

    OCguy decides to go over to the McDonalds on the corner. He doesn't see Mr Anti watching him from the checkout line at the Walgreens. OCguy is tired, frustrated and now his blood sugar is falling. He places his order and gets his tray and sits down to eat his greasy fast food. Mr Anti enters the McDonalds, orders a coffee and sits across the dinning room. He makes small talk to a senior citizen sitingat the next table, a lovely grey haired lady.It's not a minute later before he points OCguy out to the lady. "That guy has a gun on. I don't see a badge. I don't think he's a cop. He's probably a nutcase. We should tell someone." The lady, now nervously looking around replies witha worried "Oh My." Mr Anti goes up to thecounter, finds the manager and tells him that he and the lady at a nearby table noticed athe guy carrying the gun. It's very scary and the little lady mentioned that she has a heart condition. Could someone please talk tothe guy and get him to leave?The manager looks over a the little old lady who is now visiblily nervous looking at him, at OCguy and back at him. Mr Manager goes over to OCguy and talksto him. OCguys asks if he's done anything wrong and the manager assures him that he's not broken any rules but that "several" of the customers are nervous and he should leave. OCguy gets up, leaves his tray with a half eatten burger and most of his fries and walks out.

    On and on the day goes. A stop by Home Depot and within miuntes he's asked to leave because Mr Anti followedhim to the store and complained to the manager. A trip to the local grocery store to pick up some bread and he can't even make it past the produce section before Mr Anti has an employee asking him to "take the gun outside".

    By the time he heads home, OCguy is no longer a fan of OC. It's been a day of nonstophassles and he's been banned from half the stores in town. Unknown to him, Mr Anti has had a fun filled and productive day. He goes home knowing that he has likely ridsociety of another OCnut and made his world a bitsafer.

    It could hapen.
    President/ Founding Member
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    ^you could be hit by random space debris that made it through the atmosphere as well.

    Basically, never ever, ever going to play out like you described.

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    Yale,

    I'lladmit that your scenarios of the anti-gunner hassling an OC'er seems plausible. However, I believe it depends on the geographical location. Where I live, if someone tried that crap with me, I'm pretty sure that the management would tell the whiney anti to get over themselves.

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    I'm not saying that would actually happen. While I admit that the scenerio I presented is far fetched, there are days when I suspect something similar happening to me but not on such a "planned" scale.
    President/ Founding Member
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    yale wrote:
    Ratt402 wrote:
    ......I may run into is that one person, being a man or a woman who sees my gun on my side and suddenly screams out they feel threatened and calls the police. I may be just simply standing in line waiting to pay for a purchase, getting gas or whatever. The point is, I am not doing a thing that would be a threat just by having the gun carried. My question is, am I quilty as far as leos are concerned just by that one person complaining?
    You aren't doing anything wrong and he cops can't do much about it. But here's the problem and I've dealt with it myself.

    You are OCing within the law. No problems. You are friendly and not threatening anyone. Yet some jerkwad feels nervous and calls the police or the manager of the establishment.

    Now remember, you are there spending your dollars just like everyone esle. But the cops show up to investigate and/or the manager is involved.

    Do they kick the nervous nelly out the door and tell them that if they can't face living in the real world they should just stay home? No. More than likely the police or manager will put the burden on you.

    YOU are making that poor guy over there Nervous. It's not his fault. It'sYOURS for displaying your bangstick. Your money is just as green as his but we want to be a good manager and look like we are doing something to give our customers a safe and pleasent shopping experiance.

    So, you mister gunnut, should leave the premises. Yes, we noticed you standing in line with cash in hand paying your bill just like everyone else but you and your gun are just too scary. So please go away so that our other customers can live secure in their minds that nobody will hurt them because as long as they don't ever see a gun, handle a gun or hang around anyone who knows anything about guns they will be safe.

    All it takes is one person, one asshat, who makes just one subtle complaint to have you removed and interfere with what would otherwise be a normal consumer transaction.

    I've often wondered if an effective anti-gun tactic would be to follow an OCer around from place to place and each time the Law Abiding Citizen goes into a place of business the Anti calls management and issues a strong complaint.

    For instance, OCer drops by Radio Shack for a pack of batteries and to check out the new GPS they have on the shelf. Antigun jerk sees the OCer and complaines to the manager. Manager tells OC guy that he'd like him to leave the Radio Shack. OC guy leaves. Antiguy, smirks and having nothing else to do since it's his day off from work, follows the OCer at a distance.

    OCer walks over across the street to a Walgreens for his batteries. A couple of minutes Antigun guy walks in, points out OCguy to a store employee and makes a nervous complaint and says something along the lines of "You let anyone just walk in with a gun? What if he trys to kill all of us? There are kids shopping here." Before OCguy can find the batteries he wants the manager is on the phone with the cops. By the time OCguy is heading for the checkout line the cops are there talking to the manager and OCguy is getting hasseled. OCguy is asked to leave the store because the manager says that he's getting complaints from other customers. OC guy leaves without his batteries. Again. Antiguy smirks. This is getting fun. He'll show this gun nut about displaying a dangerous weapon to the kids and socer moms of this peaceful town.

    OCguy decides to go over to the McDonalds on the corner. He doesn't see Mr Anti watching him from the checkout line at the Walgreens. OCguy is tired, frustrated and now his blood sugar is falling. He places his order and gets his tray and sits down to eat his greasy fast food. Mr Anti enters the McDonalds, orders a coffee and sits across the dinning room. He makes small talk to a senior citizen sitingat the next table, a lovely grey haired lady.It's not a minute later before he points OCguy out to the lady. "That guy has a gun on. I don't see a badge. I don't think he's a cop. He's probably a nutcase. We should tell someone." The lady, now nervously looking around replies witha worried "Oh My." Mr Anti goes up to thecounter, finds the manager and tells him that he and the lady at a nearby table noticed athe guy carrying the gun. It's very scary and the little lady mentioned that she has a heart condition. Could someone please talk tothe guy and get him to leave?The manager looks over a the little old lady who is now visiblily nervous looking at him, at OCguy and back at him. Mr Manager goes over to OCguy and talksto him. OCguys asks if he's done anything wrong and the manager assures him that he's not broken any rules but that "several" of the customers are nervous and he should leave. OCguy gets up, leaves his tray with a half eatten burger and most of his fries and walks out.

    On and on the day goes. A stop by Home Depot and within miuntes he's asked to leave because Mr Anti followedhim to the store and complained to the manager. A trip to the local grocery store to pick up some bread and he can't even make it past the produce section before Mr Anti has an employee asking him to "take the gun outside".

    By the time he heads home, OCguy is no longer a fan of OC. It's been a day of nonstophassles and he's been banned from half the stores in town. Unknown to him, Mr Anti has had a fun filled and productive day. He goes home knowing that he has likely ridsociety of another OCnut and made his world a bitsafer.

    It could hapen.
    Here's how that scene would play out in Arizona: OC person picks up cellphone and calls 911 and informs dispatcher about ant-gun man following OC person around, harassing him.

    911 dispatcher alerts local Police who arrive on the scene and begin to grill anti gun person:

    Policeman: "What's up..why you following this man around and into each store?"

    Anti-gun person: "He's got a gun. I feel threatened".

    Policeman: "Did he pull the gun out? What's the problem, OC is legal in Arizona".

    Anti-gun person: "No he didn't pull out the gun. Why don't you cops do something - I feel threatened".

    Policeman then looks at weapon and says to OC person: "Say is that a Sig 250, in .40S&W or .45ACP? How do you like it - I've thinking of getting one.

    Policeman and OC person walk some distance away from blubbering anti-gun nut. Both engage into a 20-30 conversation about guns, ammo and the fools from gun control states who wander into Arizona.

    Anti-gun person walks away mumbling to himself, vowing to never again step foot into Arizona.

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    GWbiker wrote:
    Anti-gun person walks away mumbling to himself, vowing to never again step foot into Arizona.
    And we all know how well these liberals are about keeping their word, right?

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    Task Force 16 wrote:
    GWbiker wrote:
    Anti-gun person walks away mumbling to himself, vowing to never again step foot into Arizona.
    And we all know how well these liberals are about keeping their word, right?
    "Zonies" prefer to wish for good things to happen.

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    :celebrateI would like to say thank you to everyone who has replied for taking time to answer my post. I do feel alot better now realizing that chances are on my side for there not to be a problem. Of course, like Yale stated, there may be that one in a million chance for an extreme situation and it will probably never occur, but if it did, then I believe I know what to do. I am trying to read as much from this site as I can to be as knowledgeable as I am able to make myself. Now, I have one more question that I am looking for in here, how do the LEOs feel in general about OCers?

    Once again, I appreciate everyone's input and time, thank you.

    Semper Fi!

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    Itvaries greatly, even within a state or city



    My experiences have all been possitive though.

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    JDriver1.8t wrote:
    Itvaries greatly, even within a state or city



    My experiences have all been possitive though.
    Correct. Ratt402, welcome to the board. You might have a clearer picture of how things will go in your area if you browse the North Carolina forum for awhile.

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    ratt402,

    I don't know that Nc laws, but I do have an anecdote to share. Shortly after I began OC'ing here in TN, I was shopping for Halloween stuff with my family at the local Wally-world. A 'concerned citizen' (read: nippledick nervous nellie) called the cops on me. Three of the local PD showed up to check my permit (yes, a permit is required to carry at all in TN) I took the time to educate them that I was well within my rights to OC, and then the manager got involved. He thanked me for being calm and polite about the whole situation, and told the complainant that he should leave and he was no longer welcome in this walmart due to harassing the othercustomers.

    Apparently this individual was always finding something to call the cops about when someone in walmart was doing something he found repugnant.The incidents that the manager related to me were something about someone carrying a sheathed filet knife while buying fishing tackle, and someone else who had his radio up a little while waiting in the pharmacy drive thru.

    I guess the moral of the story is that the managers know who is just a jerk (and often the police do too) and so if you are calm and reasonable, there really should be no problem.



    Regards,

    Pol

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    Ratt402 wrote:
    Of course, like Yale stated, there may be that one in a million chance for an extreme situation and it will probably never occur, but if it did, then I believe I know what to do.
    I used an extreme exaguration to make a point. The fact is, similar things happen on a smaller scale all the time. I recently posted a thread in my state forum about dineing out at a local pizza resurant and haveing a good time untilONE complaint from a customer resulted in the manager coming to our table and asking me to leave with the gun on my hip.

    No I wasn't followed around but the point is, in a resturant with 50 or more diners there was 1 asshat who complained and that was enough.

    You never know when or where it will happen but there may very well be a time when you and your family are out and enjoying a pleasent evening together and somejerk detours your plans by crying to the owner. Add to that all of the places already off limits and we end uptiptoeing around wondering if we will be able to get anything done.

    I understand when someone will tell me, take your business to another place and screw the manager of that other pizza place. But darnit, I LIKED that pizza place. The prices were good and their selection was great. It was a treat that I gave myself from time to time and it pisses me off that I can't sit down and enjoy a dinner at a place I like because some soccermom sitting at a table 50 feet away saw my gun and got upset. I had been there many other times and never had a problem. It's bullfeces and it ticks me off.



    sorry for ranting.....
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    Did you try talking to the manager at all about the situation?

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    The elements of the common law offense of going armed to the terror of the people are:

    Going Armed to the Terror of the Public

    This is a common law offense (272 N.C. 535; 32 N.C. App 495).

    A person guilty of this offense

    (1) arms himself or herself with unusual and dangerous weapons (firearm)

    (2) for the purpose of terrifying others

    (3) and goes about on public highways

    (4) in a manner to cause terror to others.


    In order to be convicted all of the above must be proved in court. In order for the magistrate to issue a warrant there should be probable cause to believe that all the above elements are met.

    As one can see, simply carrying a holstered handgun (which is legal) in no way, shape, or form meets the above elements.


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    IANAL, and nothing below is to be construed as legal advice....

    There are some interesting legal issues related to restaurant, or other businesses, asking you to leave.

    Generally speaking if you have already paid for a service, the use of a facility, food that is not yet eaten, or anything else similar to this, then there is a potential breach of contract if the manager ask you to leave while you are engaged an entirely legal activity like carrying a firearm openly. Especially if you were carrying it openly when the contract was made.

    Facility/Service example:

    You have a gun on your hip, pay for a ticket to a movie, enter the building and are allowed past the usher, take your seat, and then 20 minutes into the movie a security guard asks you to leave. Since they should have known you were armed when you entered the premises, they should have returned your money and asked you to leave no later than when you reached the usher. By not doing so there MAY BE implied consent (this varies in every state based on prior decisions, and the visibility of the weapon at the time you entered will likely have a big impact on this), even if there is a sign on the door saying no firearms. If they ask you to leave, do so, but ask to talk to the manager about the situation as well (though, don't bother if it is a national chain with a known no-gun policy, as the local manager won't have any leeway on the issue anyway). It is then up to them whether they let you do so or not, if they do see if you can talk him into changing the policy (give him your state pamphlet regardless). If they escort you out without returning your ticket fee (movie theaters rarely do this, but other similar businesses might do so), then go ahead and sue them for breach of contract. You have a good case because of the openly carried weapon on the way in.

    Be aware of state law before doing this though, as some states have specific requirements to mark a business as not allowing guns, and if those requirements are all met then you may be guilty of criminal trespass by even trying to enter the building while armed. Most states though you aren't guilty until you refuse to leave after being asked, no matter what signs are posted.


    Restaurant example:

    If the manager of a pizza restaurant asks you to leave after serving you the pizza you ordered he is in breach if he does not also ensure you are able to take the pizza with you. You can take him to court for the value of the uneaten portion of the meal.

    However, if you haven't paid your bill yet you are in an interesting legal position. Staying to pay your bill is now illegal, and yet leaving without paying it is also illegal. I would suggest that if the manager brings boxes for the pizza to your table at the same time he asks you to leave then you should go ahead and get out cash or a credit card and offer to pay. It avoids any possibility of a legal problem. By taking your credit card or cash he implies consent to stay until the transaction is completed. Also offer to come back another time, unarmed (yes, I know, but it might be worth it), to discuss the issue with him so he can be informed of the legal aspects and better prepared for such situations in the future.

    However, if he doesn't bring you a container for you food then I would suggest doing exactly as asked, and leave the premises. If he stops you along the way and asks you to pay first, then say something like, "Please choose whether you wish me to stay or leave. You are apparently trying to force me, a person who has broken absolutely no law to this point, into a position of breaking the law no matter what I do. If I have permission to stay on the premises to pay my bill then I would also like to either complete my meal in peace first, or have my meal boxed up for me to take with me. If I do not have permission to say on the premises any longer then I can't stay to pay my bill."
    At this point he may just ask you to leave without paying, in which case you have been relieved of your debt and he has no legal recourse to have you arrested for theft, go ahead and leave.
    If he asks you to stay and pay the bill and says he will box up the meal, then go ahead and pay. Also offer to return, unarmed, at a time of his choosing to discuss the legal and ethical issues related to openly armed patrons on his premises. Tell him you are not going to try to force him to do anything he isn't comfortable with, but that you would like to help him make as informed a decision about the issue as possible.
    If he asks you to stay and eat before paying, then you have won, but also offer to discuss the legal issues at a time of his choosing with him if he likes.
    If he asks you to pay but refuses to box up the meal then pay the bill, and as you are waiting for your change, or in the process of signing the credit card receipt (because you have then fulfilled your side of the contract, but still have consent to be on the premises) say "I just want to let you know I intend to file a lawsuit against you for breach of contract. I paid for a meal I did not fully receive, if I was disturbing the peace, or engaged in some other illegal act then you would have cause to remove me from the premises without completing our contract. However, I have broken no law and so you have no legal justification for terminating our contract before it is complete." Do not say this earlier or it may be seen as coercion. You also need to make sure you don't threaten him, so don't ASK for anything in exchange. It is a simple statement of intention, with NO conditions attached at all. Do not imply or state outright any method for him to avoid the lawsuit, simply state that is what you are going to do, collect your change or finish signing the receipt, and then leave. Do not linger to make this statement. Definitely do not mention you plan to tell people at Opencarry.org not to eat there.

    You may also notice that the manager seems to be more scared of the complaining customer than happy to be asking you to leave. This may be because the customer has threatened to call the police if the manager does not ask you to leave, and the manager is (justifiably) afraid of there being a big scene in his restaurant. If you get that kind of vibe from him say something like, "I understand that you are getting a lot of pressure from that customer to get me out of here, and you want to avoid a big scene that may impact your business in the future. So I am going to go ahead and leave without making a scene tonight. However, I would appreciate it if you would allow me to return on another occasion and have a frank discussion with you about both the laws regarding the open carry of firearms, and the laws regarding coercion, which is a crime that customer may be guilty of committing against you at this time."

    (In Washington State where I live threatening to do an act which is intended to harm a persons business in order to compel or induce the person to engage in conduct the other has a legal right to abstain from is coercion, and is a gross misdemeanor. Threatening to make a scene at the place of business, such as by calling the police when nothing illegal is taking place, MAY be coercion under this law.)


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    My only negative encounter with a non LEO was my own grandfather. I am a pants on gun on guy. He came over and I knew he tends to be excitable so as Im letting him in I cover up. Well he sees the motion and asks what it is. I tell him its my phone but he persists and he said it was awefully big, was that a gun? I said yes and he actually stepped back outside looking stricken and says WHAT?! wtf why do you have it, I feel threatened, this isnt a bad neighborhood, are you protecting yourself from family, on and on until he says he wont be in the house if im walking all over with a death machine strapped to my hip like some Tombstone cowboy. He then leaves, quick-walking to his car.

    He even called family and asked if I had threatened them and if they felt safe around me, to which of course they said very and they werent intimidated at all. He was flabbergasted.

    My own family sheesh. My uncle hates it but doesnt avoid me because of it.

  21. #21
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    Last time I was at my aunt's near Pittsburgh and my grandmother was there, I was open carrying because my aunt doesn't care, and my grandmother kept grabbing my shirt and pulling it over my holster.

    Then read me a riot act when she finally cornered me to tell me that I was scaring the family and my aunt wanted it gone.

    ... except for the fact that everyone in the house except her has had excited conversations about guns with me, and think the fact that I carry is pretty cool. (Even my uncle's OMGLIBERAL ARTIST father.)

  22. #22
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    Aran wrote:
    Last time I was at my aunt's near Pittsburgh and my grandmother was there, I was open carrying because my aunt doesn't care, and my grandmother kept grabbing my shirt and pulling it over my holster.

    Then read me a riot act when she finally cornered me to tell me that I was scaring the family and my aunt wanted it gone.

    ... except for the fact that everyone in the house except her has had excited conversations about guns with me, and think the fact that I carry is pretty cool. (Even my uncle's OMGLIBERAL ARTIST father.)
    If someone kept fooling near my pistol it would seriously freak me out, no matter the good intentions!

  23. #23
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    Funny, I just had this conversation with my mom who works with a local PD. She is not anti and owns handguns. But she told me that the PD she works for would arrest me for GATTTOTP if they got a call about it. I brought up all the requirements for them to actually arrest someone then asked her when the last time they arrested someone for it was. She does not particularly like me OCing. Then she mentioned that she had talked to her friend who isa Magistrate in town. I told her I would love to talk to the Magistrate about it. Showed her some of the info I keep in the truck too.

    Basically, they could try to arrest someone for it. If the Magistrate was crazy enough to charge them they would have a heck of a lawsuit I think. Several discussions in the NC section if you look for them. It's not on my short list of worries while carrying.

  24. #24
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    yale wrote:
    I've often wondered if an effective anti-gun tactic would be to follow an OCer around from place to place and each time the Law Abiding Citizen goes into a place of business the Anti calls management and issues a strong complaint.

    For instance, OCer drops by Radio Shack for a pack of batteries and to check out the new GPS they have on the shelf. Antigun jerk sees the OCer and complaines to the manager. Manager tells OC guy that he'd like him to leave the Radio Shack. OC guy leaves. Antiguy, smirks and having nothing else to do since it's his day off from work, follows the OCer at a distance.

    OCer walks over across the street to a Walgreens for his batteries. A couple of minutes Antigun guy walks in, points out OCguy to a store employee and makes a nervous complaint and says something along the lines of "You let anyone just walk in with a gun? What if he trys to kill all of us? There are kids shopping here." Before OCguy can find the batteries he wants the manager is on the phone with the cops. By the time OCguy is heading for the checkout line the cops are there talking to the manager and OCguy is getting hasseled. OCguy is asked to leave the store because the manager says that he's getting complaints from other customers. OC guy leaves without his batteries. Again. Antiguy smirks. This is getting fun. He'll show this gun nut about displaying a dangerous weapon to the kids and socer moms of this peaceful town.

    OCguy decides to go over to the McDonalds on the corner. He doesn't see Mr Anti watching him from the checkout line at the Walgreens. OCguy is tired, frustrated and now his blood sugar is falling. He places his order and gets his tray and sits down to eat his greasy fast food. Mr Anti enters the McDonalds, orders a coffee and sits across the dinning room. He makes small talk to a senior citizen sitingat the next table, a lovely grey haired lady.It's not a minute later before he points OCguy out to the lady. "That guy has a gun on. I don't see a badge. I don't think he's a cop. He's probably a nutcase. We should tell someone." The lady, now nervously looking around replies witha worried "Oh My." Mr Anti goes up to thecounter, finds the manager and tells him that he and the lady at a nearby table noticed athe guy carrying the gun. It's very scary and the little lady mentioned that she has a heart condition. Could someone please talk tothe guy and get him to leave?The manager looks over a the little old lady who is now visiblily nervous looking at him, at OCguy and back at him. Mr Manager goes over to OCguy and talksto him. OCguys asks if he's done anything wrong and the manager assures him that he's not broken any rules but that "several" of the customers are nervous and he should leave. OCguy gets up, leaves his tray with a half eatten burger and most of his fries and walks out.

    On and on the day goes. A stop by Home Depot and within miuntes he's asked to leave because Mr Anti followedhim to the store and complained to the manager. A trip to the local grocery store to pick up some bread and he can't even make it past the produce section before Mr Anti has an employee asking him to "take the gun outside".

    By the time he heads home, OCguy is no longer a fan of OC. It's been a day of nonstophassles and he's been banned from half the stores in town. Unknown to him, Mr Anti has had a fun filled and productive day. He goes home knowing that he has likely ridsociety of another OCnut and made his world a bitsafer.

    It could hapen.
    Yale,

    I believe the scenario you paint above would constitute some form of harassment, depending on your state's laws. The anti is following you around, for no other "legitimate" purpose than to harass you personally. When he makes the complaint, he will have to give his/her name and address, and this will be recorded for reporting purposes. The police and judicial system are not likely to view the anti's behavior as warranted. You would likely be able to file charges against him or her for harassment.

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