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Thread: I need to work on Kitsap County Code

  1. #1
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    Looks like I need to work on Kitsap County. Their code is in violation of State Law.
    Kitsap County Code
    10.12.080 Firearms in parks.*
    It is unlawful to shoot, fire or explode any firearm, firecracker, fireworks, torpedo or explosive of any kind or to carry any firearm or to shoot or fire any air gun, BB gun, bow and arrow or use any slingshot in any park, except the park director may authorize archery, slinging, fireworks and firing of small bore arms at designated times and places suitable for their use.
    (Ord. 6 (1971) § 8, 1971)

    Edit
    Now, does anyone have a good form letter I could use and who would I contact for a county?

  2. #2
    Regular Member MadHatter66's Avatar
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    Let me know if you need any help...

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    Well, I'm trying to come up with a way to politely tell them to fix their code.

    I figured out who to contact and what the address is, now I'm just trying to write up something nice.

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    Sirpuma

    This has already been addressed last August with our Kitsap OC picnic. They are aware and have not made the change. I have a copy of the email sent to the deputies adising them that the signs are wrong and to NOT take action based on simply OC.

    Ajetpilot had been working on the commissioners for over a year about the sign on the admin building door. If you want a project, PM ajetpilot for additional information.



  5. #5
    Regular Member jbone's Avatar
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    Heres what Isent to Snohomishfor the same:

    Dear Councilmember XXXXX,
    I would like to bring to your attention Snohomish County Code Title 22
    PARK CODE 22.16.090 Weapons and Fireworks, it states "No person shall
    possess or discharge any firearm, bow and arrow, air or gas weapon,
    slingshot, fireworks or explosive in any county park except at times and
    in areas specifically designated by the parks division and posted for
    such use."
    [/i]While County Code 22.16.090 restricting the discharge of firearms is
    consistent with RCW 9.41.300 (2)(a), not allowing the possession
    violates RCW 9.41.290 State Preemption, RCW 9,41.300 (2)(a), individual
    right to bear arms in defense of self and others, and RCW 9.41.060
    exception to allowing lawful outdoor activities.
    I trust the failure to allow possession in county parks by those who
    legally posses and carry firearms under State Law is merely an
    oversight. I ask that Snohomish County Council revise 22.16.090 to fall
    in line with Washington State Codes. Councilmember please provide me with a reasonable time period necessary to enact revision. I appreciate your assistance in this matter and look forward to hearing from.

    Im proudly straight. I'm free to not support Legalization, GLBT, Illegal Aliens, or the Islamization of America.

  6. #6
    Regular Member sempercarry's Avatar
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    Here is the one I used for University Place....

    Dear City Attorney of University Place:

    I would like to bring to the city’s attention University Place Municipal
    Code:15.05.060, section E. Recreational Activities, number (2) Firearms,
    and its violation of Washington State Law. Currently University Place
    Municipal Code 15.05.060 is worded: “No person shall use, carry, or possess
    firearms of any description, or air rifles, spring guns, bow and arrows,
    slings or any other forms of weapons potentially inimical to wildlife and
    dangerous to human safety, or any instrument that can be loaded with and
    fire blank cartridges, or any kind of trapping device. Shooting into park
    areas from beyond park boundaries is forbidden.” University Place Municipal
    Code 15.05.060 is in clear violation of RCW 9.41.290 [State Preemption]:
    “Local laws and ordinances that are inconsistent with, more restrictive
    than, or exceed the requirements of state law shall not be enacted and are
    preempted and repealed, regardless of the nature of the code, charter, or
    home rule status of such city, town, county, or municipality.” This RCW is
    in referance to firearms laws. The whole RCW can be found here
    http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9.41.290 University Place
    Municipal Code 15.05.060 is inconsistent and more restrictive then RCW
    9.41.300 when it states: “No person shall use, carry, or possess firearms
    of any description”. There is no exemption in RCW 9.41.300 that stats a
    city can restrict the right to carry a firearm onto the grounds of a
    public park. Under RCW 9.41.290, University Place Municipal Code 15.05.060
    is preempted and repealed. I would also like to direct your attention to
    the Washington State Attorney General's Opinion AGO 2008 No. 8 which states
    "RCW 9.41.290 preempts a city’s authority to enact local laws that prohibit
    possession of firearms on city property or in city-owned facilities."
    I request that you advise the city council and Manager to remove or revise
    the referenced code in order to prevent and preclude the potential for a
    lawsuit from illegal citation and/or arrest in violation of state law.
    Further, I request that you assist the city law enforcement officials to
    develop a bulletin for officers that will clear up misconceptions caused by
    the preempted code. These ordnances are posted at Cirque park and the
    Grandview Chambers bay walkway. I look forward to hearing back from you
    about this issue.

    Sincerely,
    Jonathon


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    Trigger Dr wrote:
    Sirpuma

    This has already been addressed last August with our Kitsap OC picnic. They are aware and have not made the change. I have a copy of the email sent to the deputies adising them that the signs are wrong and to NOT take action based on simply OC.

    Ajetpilot had been working on the commissioners for over a year about the sign on the admin building door. If you want a project, PM ajetpilot for additional information.

    They haven't changed the ordinance either. Their website still shows the law prohibiting firearms from parks.

    I'll send them my letter anyway, perhaps if enough of us do so, they'll fix their ordinance.

  8. #8
    Regular Member Ajetpilot's Avatar
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    I tried for over 18 months. I attended many Commissioner's meetings, spoke on the record, and still could not get them to change the parks code. The lone Republican on the Board of Commissioners was elected to the state legislature, and now there are just a bunch antis on the board. Good luck!

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    That's why I said if we get enough people to pester them, they'll fix it. Perhaps we could also send letters to the AG.

  10. #10
    Regular Member Ajetpilot's Avatar
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    I applaud your desire to change the Kitsap County Parks Code. To get you up to speed, I recommend you read the following threads. These will give you lots of background information.

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum55/6202.html

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum55/6603.html

    This one will tell you all about the picnic we had in Long Lake Park with members of the sheriff's office in attendance. They know that the firearms prohibition is unenforceable:

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum55/11576-1.html

    Again, good luck. If you want company should you decide to attend a Commissioner's meeting, let me know. I'm available almost all the time.

    Bruce

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    Ajetpilot wrote:
    I applaud your desire to change the Kitsap County Parks Code. To get you up to speed, I recommend you read the following threads. These will give you lots of background information.

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum55/6202.html

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum55/6603.html

    This one will tell you all about the picnic we had in Long Lake Park with members of the sheriff's office in attendance. They know that the firearms prohibition is unenforceable:

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum55/11576-1.html

    Again, good luck. If you want company should you decide to attend a Commissioner's meeting, let me know. I'm available almost all the time.

    Bruce
    Awesome, thanks. There's no sense in them having a code that is illegal and unenforceable. They should be made to change it. It's these codes and the legislators that write them that are trying to make it so that the general populous is against gun owners.

    Today I OCed over to Lowe's and the dump. Not even a second look. Felt good after getting tons of looks in Seattle.

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    If I remember correctly Bremerton changed their code to align it with state law awhile back. I'm sure with enough pressure, the county will do the same.

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    Just ignore it until someone gives you trouble. Then BAM! you have their attention.

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    Dr. Fresh wrote:
    Just ignore it until someone gives you trouble. Then BAM! you have their attention.
    If it were me in my area I'd rather not ignore it until. Effectively that gives the county a free bite at the apple (your arrest) as the officer that arrests you gets off for "just following the law" when he deprives you have your civil liberties.

    If you can prove that they (from the top on down to the officers) were on sufficient notice that the regulation/law/rule (whatever it is in your particular jurisdiction) is unlawful you are much more likely to be able to hit them in the pocket book in your civil rights claim.

    -adamsesq

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    Regular Member Ajetpilot's Avatar
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    Trigger Dr, I and probably some others on the board have all the email messages from the Under-sheriff, to the supervisors on duty during our OCDO picnic in a Kitsap County park last summer, saying exactly that. The deputies have been told not to enforce the county prohibition against carrying in county parks.

    About two months ago, I chatted with a deputy in a park about another matter. I was OC at the time. He never even mentioned my Kimber.

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    The following is a direct quote from the directive to the Sheriff Deputies.

    "We have received clarification from our prosecutor's office as to out response to complaints regarding this issue in county facilities, specifically county parks." ( emphasis added)

    Facilities would in county include ALL county propertywith the provisions provided by RCW.

    They know, but do not want to comply, It would appear that their prejudice carries more weight than law.

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    I am currently drafting a letter to the commissioners spelling out a few of their errors in thought and judgement. I will post a copy for chop before it is sent.

    Jim

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    Trigger Dr wrote:
    The following is a direct quote from the directive to the Sheriff Deputies.

    "We have received clarification from our prosecutor's office as to out response to complaints regarding this issue in county facilities, specifically county parks." ( emphasis added)

    Facilities would in county include ALL county propertywith the provisions provided by RCW.

    They know, but do not want to comply, It would appear that their prejudice carries more weight than law.
    And what exactly is their response to complaints after the clarification?
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

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    Joerocket, They have not made a response other than ignoring the issue.

    I will quote from the FOIA document. They did not specify "facilities" in this portion of the document. The spelling and punctuation is exactly as written in the FOIA document.

    Info from Claire Bradley for the Prosecutors's Office: I read Jackie's memo from last September wherein she outlined her conclusion that prohibiting firearms in the county parks violates RCW 9.41.290 and .300. I've looked at the Code and done some very cursory research myself.

    I obviously agree with Jackie-- can't arrest for possessing a firearm in the county park. However, certain other Kitsap code provision as well as state and federal laws still apply.

    1. Discharge of any weapon in the park is crime that we will prosecute.

    2.Obviously, these people must comply with all concealed weapons permits and carry the weapons in a manner consistent with state law(s).



  20. #20
    Regular Member FMCDH's Avatar
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    I have been pursuing Bothell's and Lake Forest Park's municipal codes regarding firearms in parks, and although their police departments and the King County Sheriffs know that the MCs are un-enforceable, i have basically been stone walled by both city's attorneys with responses to the effect that they are waiting to see what comes of the Seattle situation.

    I fear there are a lot of cities that are doing exactly the same at the moment. Remind them we are watching and haven't forgotten them, but don't hold your breath for change in this current political climate of "wait and see". :?

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    I think it is really great that city attorney types have the authority to place state law in limbo until they see what a different city does regarding unlawful activity.

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    Well, I got a reply back. It looks like a wait and see thing. I got a letter from Russell D Hauge, Prosecuting Attorney, Kitsap County Prosecuting Attorney's Office. In it he says that the County Council has several revisions of the Parks' Code that are under review but that he agrees with me that the current prohibition of firearms is a violation of state law and unenforceable. When I have more time, perhaps I'll transcribe it here for all to see.

  23. #23
    Regular Member FMCDH's Avatar
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    Trigger Dr wrote:
    I think it is really great that city attorney types have the authority to place state law in limbo until they see what a different city does regarding unlawful activity.
    Yea, just makes you all warm and fuzzy inside that they want to save on the price of a few signs, just in case they might have to put them back up again in a year or so. :quirky

    I am a resident of Kenmore (sandwiched between them) otherwise I would raise hell a bit more, but as it is, they don't HAVE to listen to me because I am not "their citizen". That's pretty much the attitude I have received from both city attorneys.

    At least they fully admit their legal bounds of enforcement on the issue don't exist. Its only one consolation, but its a biggie.

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