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Thread: ABraCadabra Store

  1. #1
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    Quite the short and sweet'n'sour experience at the ABC store here in Colonial Heights.

    A friend and I went to get some Wild Turkey. While we were discussing who drank the last bottle of tasty beverage, a ABC employee walked up to me and stated "I couldn't have that". My friend thought he was talking about the WT in my hands (lol), but I just confirmed that he was speaking about the firearm. I asked him why and he stated that ABCs don't allow firearms in the store. I then stated to him (not in the nicest most politest way), that Virgina runs ABC therefore making it a public entity and that he could call the cops and that they would come and not be able to do anything. I then continued on to purchase some WT and left.

    He made no attempt to call the PD.

  2. #2
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    Dan Dan Dan, what will we do with you

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    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Dan,

    If you think the cops in Norfolk were a piece of work, wait till you see the cops in Colonial Heights. Things have gotten a little better over the past few years, overall there is still a lot of plan pure racism.

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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    danbus wrote:
    a ABC employee walked up to me and stated "I couldn't have that".

    Dan - you should know by now, you can't stop stupid.
    James Reynolds

    NRA Certified Firearms Instructor - Pistol, Shotgun, Home Firearms Safety, Refuse To Be A Victim
    Concealed Firearms Instructor for Virginia, Florida & Utah permits.
    NRA Certified Chief Range Safety Officer
    Sabre Red Pepper Spray Instructor
    Glock Certified Armorer
    Instructor Bio - http://proactiveshooters.com/about-us/

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    Regular Member altajava's Avatar
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    I have been in every ABC store in Reston/Herndon/Sterling/Ashburn over the past 18 months and have not had oneproblem. I carry a Ruger P90, fullsize andhard to miss. I watch peoples eyes and I know they see it, but I'm just a white man with a gun. Sounds like danbus is going to be a part owner of VAABC as well as Norfolk.

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    Running out of room on the hat?

    "BMWAGAWTBL"

    ...BMWAG And Wild Turkey Bourbon Liquor.

    "Buffy, the African Americanes now have guns and alcohol! We need a law!" :celebrate


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    Regular Member richarcm's Avatar
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    Although a little ballsy, asking an anti to call the cops is always a great response. I've never used it but have always left it on the table as an option. The only problem is you have to pray that the cops will do their job....

    And of course this only applies on PUBLIC property.

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    richarcm wrote:
    SNIP The only problem is you have to pray that the cops will do their job....
    Over in Dan's area, the police have added a new question to their standard Terry Stop procedure:

    First Question: "Are you the guy on the news who won the settlement?"


    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  10. #10
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    According to what the ABC told me, they can only restrict carry if the property owner (VA ABC is the leasee) restricts carry on their property.

    hsmith and I were talking about this in another thread, and this is from the response ABC sent me:

    "I've confirmed through our Chief Administrative Officer and Director of Real Estate that we do not have clauses or amendments to leases that would nullify the rules of private property owners. In other words, if an ABC store has a lease with a private property/shopping center owner that prohibits open/concealed carrying of a legal firearm, as a tenant we are subject to the private property owner's rules."


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    RedKnightt wrote:
    According to what the ABC told me, they can only restrict carry if the property owner (VA ABC is the leasee) restricts carry on their property.

    hsmith and I were talking about this in another thread, and this is from the response ABC sent me:

    "I've confirmed through our Chief Administrative Officer and Director of Real Estate that we do not have clauses or amendments to leases that would nullify the rules of private property owners. In other words, if an ABC store has a lease with a private property/shopping center owner that prohibits open/concealed carrying of a legal firearm, as a tenant we are subject to the private property owner's rules."
    But as a government agency it is argyuable that are prohibited from enforcing private rules such like this against customers as are the police - this is a new twist on the ABC story.

  12. #12
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    Mike wrote:
    RedKnightt wrote:
    According to what the ABC told me, they can only restrict carry if the property owner (VA ABC is the leasee) restricts carry on their property.

    hsmith and I were talking about this in another thread, and this is from the response ABC sent me:

    "I've confirmed through our Chief Administrative Officer and Director of Real Estate that we do not have clauses or amendments to leases that would nullify the rules of private property owners. In other words, if an ABC store has a lease with a private property/shopping center owner that prohibits open/concealed carrying of a legal firearm, as a tenant we are subject to the private property owner's rules."
    But as a government agency it is argyuable that are prohibited from enforcing private rules such like this against customers as are the police - this is a new twist on the ABC story.
    As the Va. ABC is in a position of control (the lessor wants them as a traffic draw) they should always be able to demand their own standard lease terms. That was my experience when dealing with the state as a tenant.

    I would be interested to know if any ABC leases in the state contain such terms - I question that they do except in a very unusual incident.

    Yata hey


    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  13. #13
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    Just because somehing is said to a non white doesn't apply racism. The people that went right to the race card in this post sound like typical liberals.

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    Mike wrote:
    RedKnightt wrote:
    <snip>
    "I've confirmed through our Chief Administrative Officer and Director of Real Estate that we do not have clauses or amendments to leases that would nullify the rules of private property owners. In other words, if an ABC store has a lease with a private property/shopping center owner that prohibits open/concealed carrying of a legal firearm, as a tenant we are subject to the private property owner's rules."
    But as a government agency it is arguable that are prohibited from enforcing private rules such like this against customers as are the police - this is a new twist on the ABC story.
    I agree that is arguable. I suspect it has simply never been argued before. I've of two minds on this. I don't want the state (or any locality) to use private property rules as a way around preemption, but I'm in favor of the rights of property owners to decide what goes on their own land.

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    Wild Turkey 101 is what I drink! Good stuff.

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    danbus wrote:
    Quite the short and sweet'n'sour experience at the ABC store here in Colonial Heights.

    A friend and I went to get some Wild Turkey. While we were discussing who drank the last bottle of tasty beverage, a ABC employee walked up to me and stated "I couldn't have that".


    And the ABC employee is absolutely right. He (the ABC employee) is forbidden by state policy, from possessing a firearm in the workplace (which has been interpreted as extending to his private vehicle in the parking lot).

    The fella never said a thing about whether or not Dan & friend could or could not carry.

    Dan, perhaps with good reason, is overly sensitive regarding the issue.

    RedKnightt posted:
    According to what the ABC told me, they can only restrict carry if the property owner (VA ABC is the leasee) restricts carry on their property.

    hsmith and I were talking about this in another thread, and this is from the response ABC sent me:

    "I've confirmed through our Chief Administrative Officer and Director of Real Estate that we do not have clauses or amendments to leases that would nullify the rules of private property owners. In other words, if an ABC store has a lease with a private property/shopping center owner that prohibits open/concealed carrying of a legal firearm, as a tenant we are subject to the private property owner's rules."
    which actually is NOT correct. Virginia has a standard set of boilerplate clauses that are required to be in every contract, and one of those clauses is that any clause in the contract that would otherwise require the Commonwealth to violate any statelaw, ordinance or regulation is null and void. (I know I should be citing sources to back up my assertions, but after being retired from state employment where I executed contracts for, among other things,the lease of real estate, I no longer have access to the state computer system(s) where the policy manuals regardingthese matters are easily accessed. I suppose one could submit a FOIA request for a hard copy but I don;t want to spend the $$ just to prove a point. Anybody can go to the Dept. of General Services and ask to see the purchasing manual.) They all are dealt with in the state purchasing system if anybody wants to follow up and look at the manual. Additionally, the Commonwealth is prohibitted from executing contracts that violate state law, ordinance or regulation, so any lease that contained such a provision would become completely null and void with the option of the landlord continuing to rent out the property without the non-permitted clause/policy or terminating the lease per the boilerplate provisions.

    I have no doubt that in fact there are leases which do not meet the actual purchasing manual specs, but I have good reason to believe that if push came to shove the courts could be made to rule on the law.

    I've gone way overboard from where I started - Dan over-reacted because he misunderstood what was being said.

    I still support Dan and his persuit of 2 out of the the 4 letters in BAFTE.

    stay safe.

    skidmark
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

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    RedKnightt wrote:
    I agree that is arguable. I suspect it has simply never been argued before. I've of two minds on this. I don't want the state (or any locality) to use private property rules as a way around preemption, but I'm in favor of the rights of property owners to decide what goes on their own land.
    This was tried in Norfolk with Danbus at Waterside - didn't fly there either though the decision was not in a high enough court to have any real impact.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    GLENGLOCKER wrote:
    Just because somehing is said to a non white doesn't apply racism. The people that went right to the race card in this post sound like typical liberals.
    WHAT?

    KBCraig wrote:
    Running out of room on the hat?

    "BMWAGAWTBL"

    ...BMWAG And Wild Turkey Bourbon Liquor.

    "Buffy, the African Americanes now have guns and alcohol! We need a law!" :celebrate
    This is the only quote here remotely [SARCASTIC smiley] close to what you said GLEN,and this quote was F.U.N.N.Y--->I chuckled......---->:P

    Back to the thread.

    I OPEN carried/carry in ABC on Rosehill Drive on occasion.

    The crew there likes the fact that I'm a good customer and treat me good. They asked me to stick around one day after a purchase because a dreg was obviously casing the joint [sitting in his car with no obvious purpose/looking furtively at the door/had even entered at one point [no purchase] and then returned to his car, yet sat in it for another 10-15 minutes].....

    BG [Latino] drove away after observing what was transpiring inside.

  19. #19
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    Heres a stupid question. Can somebody who works for the ABC deny the purchase of alcohol.

    I''ll relate the purchase of a firearm, working in a gun shop an employee could kill a gun sale for any reason the employee doesn't feel nice and fluffy about. Generally this reason was, used if it was a suspected straw purchase, drunk, or if you got a really uneasy feeling because you suspected the invidiual was going to do something, any employee could kill sale.

    Based on these same princeple, can an employee for the ABC kill a liquor sale?

  20. #20
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    rob99vmi04 wrote:
    Heres a stupid question. Can somebody who works for the ABC deny the purchase of alcohol.

    I''ll relate the purchase of a firearm, working in a gun shop an employee could kill a gun sale for any reason the employee doesn't feel nice and fluffy about. Generally this reason was, used if it was a suspected straw purchase, drunk, or if you got a really uneasy feeling because you suspected the invidiual was going to do something, any employee could kill sale.

    Based on these same princeple, can an employee for the ABC kill a liquor sale?
    Most definitely. In fact under some circumstances would be obligated to do so - under age, drunk and I'm sure others.

    Can somebody cite this - no time know.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    RedKnightt wrote:
    "I've confirmed through our Chief Administrative Officer and Director of Real Estate that we do not have clauses or amendments to leases that would nullify the rules of private property owners. In other words, if an ABC store has a lease with a private property/shopping center owner that prohibits open/concealed carrying of a legal firearm, as a tenant we are subject to the private property owner's rules."
    Let's take this"rule" to its logical extension...

    If an ABC store has a lease with a private property/shopping center owner that prohibitsselling alcohol to Jews, as a tenant we are subject to the private property owner's rules.

    If an ABC store has a lease with a private property/shopping center owner that prohibitsselling alcohol to anyone wearing a t-shirt with an anti-American slogan, as a tenant we are subject to the private property owner's rules.

    If an ABC store has a lease with a private property/shopping center owner that prohibitsselling alcohol to anyone on welfare, as a tenant we are subject to the private property owner's rules.

    Anyone think these would fly?



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    Grapeshot wrote:
    rob99vmi04 wrote:
    Heres a stupid question. Can somebody who works for the ABC deny the purchase of alcohol.

    I''ll relate the purchase of a firearm, working in a gun shop an employee could kill a gun sale for any reason the employee doesn't feel nice and fluffy about. Generally this reason was, used if it was a suspected straw purchase, drunk, or if you got a really uneasy feeling because you suspected the invidiual was going to do something, any employee could kill sale.

    Based on these same princeple, can an employee for the ABC kill a liquor sale?
    Most definitely. In fact under some circumstances would be obligated to do so - under age, drunk and I'm sure others.

    Can somebody cite this - no time know.

    Yata hey
    There's always the right to refuse service. I've seen stores (various ones) use that to great effect when they had a problem customer.

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    Having worked for VA ABC myself I can confirm he is correct. HE couldn't carry a firearm while working. Customers though are not barred from carrying in the store.

  24. #24
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    rob99vmi04 wrote:
    Heres a stupid question. Can somebody who works for the ABC deny the purchase of alcohol.

    I''ll relate the purchase of a firearm, working in a gun shop an employee could kill a gun sale for any reason the employee doesn't feel nice and fluffy about. Generally this reason was, used if it was a suspected straw purchase, drunk, or if you got a really uneasy feeling because you suspected the invidiual was going to do something, any employee could kill sale.

    Based on these same princeple, can an employee for the ABC kill a liquor sale?
    Absolutely! I had refused sale of alchohal many times to customers. It's the same thing when I worked in a gun shop. Reasonable suspicioun would cause my spidey sense to go off and the sale was immidiately canceled. Of course they would get upset/curse/threaten, but I was always backed up by my higher ups.

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    danbus wrote:
    Quite the short and sweet'n'sour experience at the ABC store here in Colonial Heights.

    A friend and I went to get some Wild Turkey. While we were discussing who drank the last bottle of tasty beverage, a ABC employee walked up to me and stated "I couldn't have that". My friend thought he was talking about the WT in my hands (lol), but I just confirmed that he was speaking about the firearm. I asked him why and he stated that ABCs don't allow firearms in the store. I then stated to him (not in the nicest most politest way), that Virgina runs ABC therefore making it a public entity and that he could call the cops and that they would come and not be able to do anything. I then continued on to purchase some WT and left.

    He made no attempt to call the PD.
    I've decided that if I ever move to Virginia, i'm doing everything in my power to become Danbus' next best friend.

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