Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 58

Thread: "Warning shot" is NOT a good idea!

  1. #1
    Regular Member MamaLiberty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Newcastle, Wyoming, USA
    Posts
    885

    Post imported post

    I've emphasized for years that if you have time and opportunity to fire a "warning shot," you most likely do NOT have any honest justification to shoot at all. You are justified only by an immediate threat of death or serious bodily harm. It would seem that this person didn't think his cousin was in IMMEDIATE danger of death or he would have shot the person beating him.

    Of course, I think the PA "law" is useless, but this illustrates the problem of a "warning shot" fairly well.

    PA: Idiot judge upholds irrational ban on firing guns
    Penn Live
    β€œA Lancaster ordinance barring people from firing guns has passed its first court test. Lancaster resident Curtis Swinton, who has a permit to legally carry a concealed weapon, was charged after he fired a gun in a restaurant parking lot in December 2007. He told police his cousin was being beaten up and he fired a warning shot to disperse the assailants. No one was injured. Swinton says only the state can make such gun laws and the ordinance bars people from defending themselves. But Lancaster County Judge Joseph Madenspacher this week upheld the ordinance, saying it has enough exceptions to allow people to defend themselves in court.” (04/02/09)

    http://tinyurl.com/d2a3ar
    I will not knowingly initiate force. I am a self owner.

    Let the record show that I did not consent to be governed. I did not consent to any constitution. I did not consent to any president. I did not consent to any law except the natural law of "mala en se." I did not consent to the police. Nor any tax. Nor any prohibition of anything. Nor any regulation or licensing of any kind.

  2. #2
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Las Vegas, Nevada, USA
    Posts
    914

    Post imported post

    MamaLiberty wrote:
    I've emphasized for years that if you have time and opportunity to fire a "warning shot," you most likely do NOT have any honest justification to shoot at all. You are justified only by an immediate threat of death or serious bodily harm. It would seem that this person didn't think his cousin was in IMMEDIATE danger of death or he would have shot the person beating him.

    Of course, I think the PA "law" is useless, but this illustrates the problem of a "warning shot" fairly well.

    PA: Idiot judge upholds irrational ban on firing guns
    Penn Live
    β€œA Lancaster ordinance barring people from firing guns has passed its first court test. Lancaster resident Curtis Swinton, who has a permit to legally carry a concealed weapon, was charged after he fired a gun in a restaurant parking lot in December 2007. He told police his cousin was being beaten up and he fired a warning shot to disperse the assailants. No one was injured. Swinton says only the state can make such gun laws and the ordinance bars people from defending themselves. But Lancaster County Judge Joseph Madenspacher this week upheld the ordinance, saying it has enough exceptions to allow people to defend themselves in court.” (04/02/09)

    http://tinyurl.com/d2a3ar
    I'm only 30 years old, but I have been telling people this most my life. It goes along with supposition that: "if someone is breaking into your house and you shoot them outside, drag them inside the front door." I'm sure just about everyone has heard that from another person.

    Look, If you are legally, morally, and ethically justified in shooting someone, then you are legally, morally, and ethically justified in killing them. DON'T shoot to "warn," to "scare," or to "mame." Shoot them in the knee, you did it on purpose, shoot them anywhere else, and you were not scared enough for your life.You shoot because you have NO other choice and that person would have killed YOU otherwise.

  3. #3
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Ass-land (Ashland) OR, , USA
    Posts
    267

    Post imported post

    Warning shots are very iffy, I will use one and I did last year, and I also did about 15 years ago ( I will tell you about them in one of my # of whacked out installments here

    I will use a warning shot ,"BUT" I am very wary and aware of the right place & situation in which a warning shot is warranted ( which is rare ).

    I know that gunshots are like a dinner bell to police and onlookers, not to mention were in the hell is the bullet going to end up

    As they say "there is a lawyer attached to every bullet that leaves your barrel.

  4. #4
    Regular Member MamaLiberty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Newcastle, Wyoming, USA
    Posts
    885

    Post imported post

    SteveInAshand wrote:
    Warning shots are very iffy, I will use one and I did last year, and I also did about 15 years ago ( I will tell you about them in one of my # of whacked out installments here

    I will use a warning shot ,"BUT" I am very wary and aware of the right place & situation in which a warning shot is warranted ( which is rare ).

    I know that gunshots are like a dinner bell to police and onlookers, not to mention were in the hell is the bullet going to end up

    As they say "there is a lawyer attached to every bullet that leaves your barrel.
    Well, Steve, your last two lines are solid reason why a "warning shot" is ALWAYS a bad idea. You _might_ get away with it, but that doesn't make it either wise or useful. If the presence of your gun is not sufficient to deter an attack, neither is an intentional miss.

    The only legal or moral justification to shoot (outside of target practice) is to STOP an attack that actually threatens your life. And God help you if you injure or kill an innocent bystander.

    And we should never "shoot to kill!" We shoot to STOP the attack. If the attacker dies as a result, he/she has to bear that responsibility. There is a VAST difference between the two.
    I will not knowingly initiate force. I am a self owner.

    Let the record show that I did not consent to be governed. I did not consent to any constitution. I did not consent to any president. I did not consent to any law except the natural law of "mala en se." I did not consent to the police. Nor any tax. Nor any prohibition of anything. Nor any regulation or licensing of any kind.

  5. #5
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Ass-land (Ashland) OR, , USA
    Posts
    267

    Post imported post

    I have to agree with you , you know something I don't "want" to agree lol.

    So my situational logic is NOT recommended for anyone else.


    In my next post I will show you how bouncing a 30-30 round between the boots of one of two illegal alien gang tattoo smugglers who are separating to surround you as you are skinning out a deer all alone in the vast foothills of eastern San Diego county mountains on the boarder worked when jacking a round and yell in STOP did not work.

    There is psychology, spiritual dimension, common sense, spur of the moment judgment , law and intuition involved . I will post it tonight.




  6. #6
    Regular Member MamaLiberty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Newcastle, Wyoming, USA
    Posts
    885

    Post imported post

    SteveInAshand wrote:
    I have to agree with you , you know something I don't "want" to agree lol.

    So my situational logic is NOT recommended for anyone else.

    There is psychology, spiritual dimension, common sense, spur of the moment judgment , law and intuition involved . I will post it tonight.
    Can't wait to read about it...

    Seems you PUT yourself in that kind of situation, however. Why in the world would you go hunting ALONE - not to mention going where something like that could so easily happen?

    The first rule of self defense is to be completely aware of your surroundings and not to go deliberately or unnecessarily into places or situations where you will likely be attacked. At least not without someone to watch your back!
    I will not knowingly initiate force. I am a self owner.

    Let the record show that I did not consent to be governed. I did not consent to any constitution. I did not consent to any president. I did not consent to any law except the natural law of "mala en se." I did not consent to the police. Nor any tax. Nor any prohibition of anything. Nor any regulation or licensing of any kind.

  7. #7
    Regular Member KansasMustang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Herington, Kansas, USA
    Posts
    1,005

    Post imported post

    Warning shots? Hmmm,, in the case of unarmed assailaints beating up one's cousin, I wouldn't offer a guess as to if it'd be justifiable homicide if he'd taken one of them down.
    I have had a situation where I had to prove my willingness to fire. Told a young punk to leave my property and he said he was going in my house no matter what I said. Busted a cap from my .44 mag Henry and he got in his car, quickly. Was it a warning shot,,spose so. Was I justified ? The sherrif said I was. Course I live in the country and it's OK to fire a weapon out here,,anytime.
    ‘‘Laws that forbid the carrying of arms... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.’’ Thomas Jefferson

  8. #8
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    , Nevada, USA
    Posts
    716

    Post imported post

    MamaLiberty wrote:
    Seems you PUT yourself in that kind of situation, however. Why in the world would you go hunting ALONE
    Why not go alone? Some people like the solitude, some may go at a time when other friends may not be able to go with them (during the work week), and some may not have any hunting friends (In Southern California, hunters are not always the mostcommon people.)
    not to mention going where something like that could so easily happen?
    It can happen anywhere, nowhere is safe from the criminal element.

    The first rule of self defense is to be completely aware of your surroundings and not to go deliberately or unnecessarily into places or situations where you will likely be attacked. At least not without someone to watch your back!
    The fact that they did not successfully get the jump on him tells me that he was aware of his surroundings.

    As for not going deliberately into places or situations where you will likely be attacked, you must avoid mall parking lots, school campuses, convenience stores, your home, restaurants, sporting events, post offices,crowded cities, and isolated rural areas. All of these places are common areas for coming under attack. Good luck with that.




  9. #9
    Regular Member MamaLiberty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Newcastle, Wyoming, USA
    Posts
    885

    Post imported post

    Why not hunt alone? Well, of course you can. You might also break a leg or be attacked by a bear, lion, etc. If you can deal with that, more power to you, but I would think a rational person would rather have a better chance of coming back in one piece. I've done a lot of hunting, and I wouldn't dream of going alone.

    Yes, there is a potential for criminals anywhere, but there is a big difference between a parking lot in the daytime and a dark alley at midnight. That's what I'm talking about. If one avoids the obvious extreme situation, while maintaining good situational awareness, one can avoid most confrontations.

    As for not going deliberately into places or situations where you will likely be attacked, you must avoid mall parking lots, school campuses, convenience stores, your home, restaurants, sporting events, post offices,crowded cities, and isolated rural areas. All of these places are common areas for coming under attack. Good luck with that.
    Yes, I avoid all of those places very carefully. I live in a remote rural area, in Wyoming, and have far more to fear from a bear than a criminal - but there is always the possibility, so I remain alert and aware. And if I must venture into dangerous territory, I don't go alone.

    I, for one, have already had to shoot a man to save my life. I have no desire to do it again, and will avoid taking chances as much as I can... But if it is necessary, I am armed and ready to shoot. I just don't go looking for it.
    I will not knowingly initiate force. I am a self owner.

    Let the record show that I did not consent to be governed. I did not consent to any constitution. I did not consent to any president. I did not consent to any law except the natural law of "mala en se." I did not consent to the police. Nor any tax. Nor any prohibition of anything. Nor any regulation or licensing of any kind.

  10. #10
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Ass-land (Ashland) OR, , USA
    Posts
    267

    Post imported post

    I'm never alone I am with God .

    No family, no friends who hunt yet God country still calls me to be with him in His woods ya think Im gonna say no when God says mount up boy there is a large deer waiting for ya.

    Were am I going to go deer hunting as a working poor man on the boarder, Wyoming ?, 2 thousand miles away when there is tons of deer right in my back yard 15 min away.

    Mexicans , Chimichangans, Chilulpans , and Nicaraguans be dammed its MY country on MY side of the boarder.

    Why if I were to be put on the stand and asked "Why did you shoot Jose and JoseB ?

    I would say : "I didn't shoot anyone IT shot them", "

    It, it who ? "

    Why God silly ; the intuitive real divine intelligent inner common sence that is lightning fast calm focused and opperates in me thru my autonomic nevous system and is many times faster than my thinking ego based intellect self , He-God moves my hand and gunas he knows ( knew) Mexican A & Mexican B
    ( the decedants ) as they were moving on me and to shoot this time to stop
    ( after my warning shot ) as I could see that I was in obvious eminant fear for my health , nay life as my "inner intuition took over to take action as my fear was stark and real of the threat that the BG's were intending in real time to perpitrate upon me.

    As the prosicution lawyer says "Your honor I move to strike the defendant / wintess testimony and call for a mental health evaluation the defendant is obviously in some sort of religious or psychotic delirium ", lol.

    P.S minun BS "both" my warning shots worked flawlessly , ( story to follow )

  11. #11
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Eagle River, Alaska, USA
    Posts
    584

    Post imported post

    A little late to this thread but, we live in America we have every right to be here whether its 2am at a 24hour car wash or the back country of Arizona. I'm an Insomniac (at times) and OC on long walks at 2am I don't loose my God given constitutionally protected rights at any given time of day they're always there for me.

    If being out an about and armed by yourself means your looking for trouble then a woman who goes to a frat party is looking to be raped.

  12. #12
    Regular Member MamaLiberty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Newcastle, Wyoming, USA
    Posts
    885

    Post imported post

    FunkTrooper wrote:
    If being out an about and armed by yourself means your looking for trouble then a woman who goes to a frat party is looking to be raped.
    Depends on where you go armed! I'd say that your example was exactly the case, in reality. Why would such a woman think she should be immune from a threat if she willingly goes into such a situation?

    If you go swimming where alligators are known to be, and the place has a reputation for alligator attacks, you should not be surprised if they attack you. Do you usually have urgent business in a dark alley at midnight?

    It is obviously your right to swim with alligators if you wish. I choose to avoid situations where an attack is obviously most likely. Then I only need to deal with the more unlikely sort.

    Do you really spend much time with your dinner fork stuck in a light socket?
    I will not knowingly initiate force. I am a self owner.

    Let the record show that I did not consent to be governed. I did not consent to any constitution. I did not consent to any president. I did not consent to any law except the natural law of "mala en se." I did not consent to the police. Nor any tax. Nor any prohibition of anything. Nor any regulation or licensing of any kind.

  13. #13
    Regular Member MamaLiberty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Newcastle, Wyoming, USA
    Posts
    885

    Post imported post

    Sorry, duplicate post
    I will not knowingly initiate force. I am a self owner.

    Let the record show that I did not consent to be governed. I did not consent to any constitution. I did not consent to any president. I did not consent to any law except the natural law of "mala en se." I did not consent to the police. Nor any tax. Nor any prohibition of anything. Nor any regulation or licensing of any kind.

  14. #14
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    , South Carolina, USA
    Posts
    2,247

    Post imported post

    MamaLiberty wrote:
    FunkTrooper wrote:
    If being out an about and armed by yourself means your looking for trouble then a woman who goes to a frat party is looking to be raped.
    Depends on where you go armed! I'd say that your example was exactly the case, in reality. Why would such a woman think she should be immune from a threat if she willingly goes into such a situation?

    If you go swimming where alligators are known to be, and the place has a reputation for alligator attacks, you should not be surprised if they attack you. Do you usually have urgent business in a dark alley at midnight?

    It is obviously your right to swim with alligators if you wish. I choose to avoid situations where an attack is obviously most likely. Then I only need to deal with the more unlikely sort.

    Do you really spend much time with your dinner fork stuck in a light socket?
    I think you are right on with these examples and one of the problems that we have is that people put themselves in the pond with alligators and then want to kill all the alligators for it. I am not saying that the girl at the frat party deserves to be raped but when she goes to it half naked, starts flirting with every boy at the party making suggestive remarks she should not be shocked that it happens. She could have easily avoided it but rather she encouraged it until the last minute. I have seen it happen with my own eyes (I was not involved in the act) but I could not feel sorry for the girl.

    You walk down the dark alley where 44 robberies have taken place expect to get robbed and if you have a gun expect that you are going to have to use it. Avoidance is the key.


  15. #15
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Hodgenville, Kentucky, USA
    Posts
    1,261

    Post imported post

    Zero dark thirty one nightin the country....I got sideswiped...hit and run. Punks left car and headed to the bushes. I found them and ordered them back to the road. I was ignored until I fired over their head and both surrendered.

    Warning shot? Shot was to let them know I was armed. It worked.

  16. #16
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Scottsdale, Arizona, USA
    Posts
    363

    Post imported post

    TheMrMitch wrote:
    Zero dark thirty one nightin the country....I got sideswiped...hit and run. Punks left car and headed to the bushes. I found them and ordered them back to the road. I was ignored until I fired over their head and both surrendered.

    Warning shot? Shot was to let them know I was armed. It worked.
    Just where did your bullet end up? Over their heads, not me,MAYBE into the ground but not into the air over their heads. Was there any kind of a backstop?

  17. #17
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Hodgenville, Kentucky, USA
    Posts
    1,261

    Post imported post

    Yes...shoulda mentioned.....LARGE rise (knob) behind them. Round was never a danger the way I placed it. No houses or anything near.

    No insurance, stolen tags no registration.

  18. #18
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Walton County, Georgia, ,
    Posts
    475

    Post imported post

    Me and my brother were walking along a public highway in Eastern Kentucky (middle of nowhere), about two miles from our house. A dog was getting a little too close for comfort, barking at us and such. It was aggressive, but not an immediate threat. My brother pulls out his pocket pistol and fires a round into a hill just across the road from us (about 20 feet away). Dog gets scared and runs off.

    The justification of this warning shot was that we didn't want to get dog bit and we didn't want to have to shoot someone's dog. Obviously the dog didn't understand what a pistol is or the implications of having one pointed at it means. What else could we have done to avoid those two outcomes?

  19. #19
    Regular Member 1FASTC4's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Tomahawk
    Posts
    510

    Post imported post

    but not an immediate threat

    No justification whatsoever

  20. #20
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Walton County, Georgia, ,
    Posts
    475

    Post imported post

    You didn't answer my question. My non-justified answer ended up with no one hurt and an end to the threat.

  21. #21
    Regular Member Alexcabbie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Alexandria, Virginia, United States
    Posts
    2,290

    Post imported post

    No matter where the shot is placed, you never shoot to kill; but you always shoot to live.

  22. #22
    Regular Member paramedic70002's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Franklin, VA, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    1,448

    Post imported post

    Any warning shots I fire will fall into one of three categories:

    1. Oops I missed. You got lucky that time.
    2. Warning: I will shoot you again if I have to.
    3. Go away big mean animal who won't heed any other deterrent (only if in the proper environment).

    A warning shot just means you have one less round to use if you need it.
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

    Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
    Paramedics With Guns Scare People!

  23. #23
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Whatcom County
    Posts
    17,338

    Post imported post

    What if there was fear that he might hit his cousin who was getting beat up? I think I would justify a warning shot in that case. You wouldn't want to accidently kill who you were trying to protect.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  24. #24
    Regular Member paramedic70002's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Franklin, VA, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    1,448

    Post imported post

    sudden valley gunner wrote:
    What if there was fear that he might hit his cousin who was getting beat up? I think I would justify a warning shot in that case. You wouldn't want to accidently kill who you were trying to protect.
    Well, probably one of them needed some relief.
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

    Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
    Paramedics With Guns Scare People!

  25. #25
    Regular Member Washintonian_For_Liberty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Mercer Island, Washington, USA
    Posts
    922

    Post imported post

    Bravo_Sierra wrote:
    I'm only 30 years old, but I have been telling people this most my life. It goes along with supposition that: "if someone is breaking into your house and you shoot them outside, drag them inside the front door." I'm sure just about everyone has heard that from another person.
    I'm pretty sure they'd be able to tell you shot them outside... that's just silly. If they are threatening you... shoot to kill. It shouldn't matter where they are unless there's no possible way for them to get you. Other than that... if they are coming at you threatening you with bodily harm... kill them. Because you don't know if they might have a knife or not... you don't know if they might have a gun in their waistband... or a iron pipe or something... just kill them if they're coming at you... and if they're in your house... kill them. Of course... be sure to make sure it's not grandma raiding the fridge... but as soon as you ascertain that it's a thief... kill them.
    Associate with men of good quality if you esteem your own reputation; for it is better to be alone than in bad company. ~ George Washington

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •