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Thread: OC Laws

  1. #1
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    Could anyone fill me in on the Utah OC laws? I see on the map its listed as a licensed OC state but when reading some state laws I only see mention of licenses for CC.


    Thanks,
    Gary

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    Without having time to go into a lot of detail or provide a lot of references here goes:

    Utah law prohibits carrying a loaded gun in most public locations UNLESS you have a permit to carry a concealed weapon. Utah law ALSO prohibits carrying a concealed weapon in most public locations unless you have a permit to carry a concealed weapon.

    See 76-10-504 and 76-10-505 at <http://www.le.state.ut.us/UtahCode/section.jsp?code=76-10>.

    Carrying an "unloaded" firearm (as that is defined in 76-10-501) is legal as long as the gun is not concealed.

    There is no law requiring a person carrying a gun pursuant to a permit to actually conceal it. The permit exempts the holder from the law against concealing as well as the law against carrying a loaded gun.

    So with a permit to carry a (concealed) firearm, it is legal in Utah to OC a fully loaded gun. Lacking such a permit, a firearm may be OC'd only if it is "Utah unloaded" (empty chamber, but fully charged magazine is ok).

    Hence Utah is termed a "licensed" OC State as compared to a Gold Star OC State. The license that allows you to legally OC a fully loaded gun is the permit to carry a "concealed" firearm.

    Under current law, this also applies to carry in or on your private vehicle. However, that law has been changed and when it takes effect on May 12, it will be legal to carry a loaded and/or concealed handgun in or on your vehicle without needing a permit. (Long guns will be legal to be concealed, but will have to remain unloaded in your car unless you have a permit.)

    I am not a lawyer. This is not legal advice, and other such disclaimers.

    Charles


    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
    --Marxist.org

    "Communism and Anarchy [are], a necessary complement to one another. "
    --PETER KROPOTKIN, "Anarchism: its philosophy and ideal." 1898.

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    Thanks you, thats what I was looking for.

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    Hey I've got a question for ya, you know how in some stores (Walmart, Smiths, Albertsons ect.) have the bank branches inside the store, what is the law about being near that, or even lets say making a deposit at said branch while OC.
    I know that you are not able to bring a weapon into a bank and all that but this one seems to be a grey area... Just thought i would throw this one up and see if anyone knows. Thanks!



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    Utah does not have any laws against bringing a firearm into a bank. It's just what policy the Bank has so you a perfectly fine to OC there. I OC at my banks ALL the time. ie Wells Fargo, Chase, America1st. All these banks I have visted in different locations thruout the valley. There are some other ones to but you will be fine.



    TJ

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    Sorry i must have been misinformed, i was told by someone that banks, hospitals, churches and schools are places you are not able to bring a weapon to. In that case what about bars? Anyone know of any bars that are OC friendly?

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    it is illegal to carry in a church that doesnt want you to, but not in hospitals.

    Unfortunately, i dont know about the laws surrounding bars.

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    OfficerMatt wrote:
    Sorry i must have been misinformed, i was told by someone that banks, hospitals, churches and schools are places you are not able to bring a weapon to. In that case what about bars? Anyone know of any bars that are OC friendly?

    You can carry OC/CC inbars in Utah. You can even have a drink or two. The level is the same as DUI (.08). Of course this is not recommended but it's up to each individual.


    You can carry in Hospitals, Churches and schools. To carry at schools in Utah you need a Permit. So far as I know the LDS church is the only one that has told BCI (and BCI has added the info on their site) that you cannot carry in their Houses of Worship. If you do and get caught it's an infraction.

    You don't need a Permit to carry in a Church or Hospital.


    I carry everytime I go to bar. I carried tonight

    In Utah you can carry ANYWHERE except I would say where you see a metal detecor ie secured area such as beyond the detectors at the Airport or court houses.

    You can even OC/CC at the airport if you wanted to:celebrate.

    PM me your number and I can call you if you want. That way I can answer all your Q's better.



    TJ






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    utbagpiper wrote:
    So with a permit to carry a (concealed) firearm, it is legal in Utah to OC a fully loaded gun. Lacking such a permit, a firearm may be OC'd only if it is "Utah unloaded" (empty chamber, but fully charged magazine is ok).
    So I could only assume this applies to Out-of-state CWP's that are reciprocal with Utah's, yes??

    Im pretty sure that is the case, but Ive yet to travel out of Idaho with my CWP, so Im not totally sure.

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    That's correct. Utah recognizes any and all CWP's issued by any state, county, or city.

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    UTOC-45-44 wrote:
    To carry at schools in Utah you need a Permit.
    You need to be careful on this one. Under federal law, your permit must be issued by the state where the school is located, so your Idaho permit does not get you around the Gun Free (target rich) School Zones in Utah. However, a Utah permit does.

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    Mr. Pyne and TJ are both correct.

    According to Utah law, a permit from any state or county will be valid at any Utah school.

    However, the federal law is blurry on the issue, and the ATF has said that the permit must be issued by the state that the school is located in.

    Also, the federal law only applies to K-12 schools. So an out of state permit should be perfectly valid at non K-12 schools.
    "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." Robert A. Heinlein

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    18 USC 922(q)

    (2)(A) It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to possess a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe is a school zone.

    (B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the possession of a firearm --

    (i) on private property not part of school grounds;

    (ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State of political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;

    (iii) that is --

    (I) not loaded; and

    (II) in a locked container, or a locked firearms rack that is on a motor vehicle;

    ...
    [18 USC 921(a)(25) (25) as used in 18 USC 922(q)]

    (25) The term "school zone" means--

    (A) in, or on the grounds of, a public, parochial or private school; or

    (B) within a distance of 1,000 feet from the grounds of a public, parochial or private school.

    (26) The term "school" means a school which provides elementary or secondary education, as determined under State law.
    Utah law has a much broader definition of school zones to include vocational and post secondary schools:



    76-3-203.2. Definitions -- Use of dangerous weapon in offenses committed on or about school premises -- Enhanced penalties.

    (1) (a) As used in this section and Section 76-10-505.5, "on or about school premises" means any of the following:

    (i) in a public or private elementary, secondary, or on the grounds of any of those schools;

    (ii) in a public or private vocational school or postsecondary institution or on the grounds of any of those schools or institutions;

    (iii) in those portions of any building, park, stadium, or other structure or grounds which are, at the time of the act, being used for an activity sponsored by or through a school or institution under Subsections (1)(a)(i) and (ii);

    (iv) in or on the grounds of a preschool or child-care facility; and (v) within 1,000 feet of any structure, facility, or grounds included in Subsections (1)(a)(i), (ii), (iii), and (iv).

    (b) As used in this section:

    (i) "Dangerous weapon" has the same definition as in Section 76-1-601.

    (ii) "Educator" means any person who is employed by a public school district and who is required to hold a certificate issued by the State Board of Education in order to perform duties of employment.

    (iii) "Within the course of employment" means that an educator is providing services or engaging in conduct required by the educator's employer to perform the duties of employment.

    (2) Any person who, on or about school premises, commits any offense and uses or threatens to use a dangerous weapon, as defined in Section 76-1-601, in the commission of the offense is subject to an enhanced degree of offense as provided in Subsection (4).

    (3) (a) Any person who commits an offense against an educator when the educator is acting within the course of employment is subject to an enhanced degree of offense as provided in Subsection (4).

    (b) As used in Subsection (3)(a), "offense" means:

    (i) an offense under Title 76, Chapter 5, Offenses Against The Person; and

    (ii) an offense under Title 76, Chapter 6, Part 3, Robbery.

    (4) If the trier of fact finds beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant, while on or about school premises, commits any offense and in the commission of the offense uses or threatens to use a dangerous weapon, or that the defendant committed an offense against an educator when the educator was acting within the course of his employment, the enhanced penalty for a:

    (a) class B misdemeanor is a class A misdemeanor;

    (b) class A misdemeanor is a third degree felony;

    (c) third degree felony is a second degree felony; or

    (d) second degree felony is a first degree felony.

    (5) The enhanced penalty for a first degree felony offense of a convicted person:

    (a) is imprisonment for a term of not less than five years and which may be for life, and imposition or execution of the sentence may not be suspended unless the court finds that the interests of justice would be best served and states the specific circumstances justifying the disposition on the record; and

    (b) is subject also to the dangerous weapon enhancement provided in Section 76-3-203.8 except for an offense committed under Subsection (3) that does not involve a firearm.

    (6) The prosecuting attorney, or grand jury if an indictment is returned, shall provide notice upon the information or indictment that the defendant is subject to the enhanced degree of offense or penalty under Subsection (4) or (5).

    (7) In cases where an offense is enhanced pursuant to Subsection (4)(a), (b), (c), or (d), or under Subsection (5)(a) for an offense committed under Subsection (2) that does not involve a firearm, the convicted person is not subject to the dangerous weapon enhancement in Section 76-3-203.8.
    However, Utah law excludes weapons in vehicles from being subject to the school zone restriction:

    76-10-505.5. Possession of a dangerous weapon, firearm, or sawed-off shotgun on or about school premises -- Penalties.

    (1) A person may not possess any dangerous weapon, firearm, or sawed-off shotgun, as those terms are defined in Section 76-10-501, at a place that the person knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is on or about school premises as defined in Subsection 76-3-203.2(1).

    (2) (a) Possession of a dangerous weapon on or about school premises is a class B misdemeanor.

    (b) Possession of a firearm or sawed-off shotgun on or about school premises is a class A misdemeanor.

    (3) This section does not apply if:

    (a) the person is authorized to possess a firearm as provided under Section 53-5-704, 53-5-705, 76-10-511, or 76-10-523, or as otherwise authorized by law;

    (b) the possession is approved by the responsible school administrator;

    (c) the item is present or to be used in connection with a lawful, approved activity and is in the possession or under the control of the person responsible for its possession or use; or

    (d) the possession is:

    (i) at the person's place of residence or on the person's property;

    (ii) in any vehicle lawfully under the person's control, other than a vehicle owned by the school or used by the school to transport students; or

    (iii) at the person's place of business which is not located in the areas described in Subsection 76-3-203.2(1)(a)(i), (ii), or (iv).

    (4) This section does not prohibit prosecution of a more serious weapons offense that may occur on or about school premises.
    UCA 53-5-704 is the Concealed Firearm permit issuance statute.


    UCA 76-10-523 is the exemption that recognizes permits issued by other jurisdictions:

    76-10-523. Persons exempt from weapons laws.

    (1) This part and Title 53, Chapter 5, Part 7, Concealed Weapon Act, do not apply to any of the following:

    (a) a United States marshal;

    (b) a federal official required to carry a firearm;

    (c) a peace officer of this or any other jurisdiction;

    (d) a law enforcement official as defined and qualified under Section 53-5-711;

    (e) a judge as defined and qualified under Section 53-5-711;

    (f) a common carrier while engaged in the regular and ordinary transport of firearms as merchandise; or

    (g) a nonresident traveling in or through the state, provided that any firearm is:

    (i) unloaded; and

    (ii) securely encased as defined in Section 76-10-501.

    (2) The provisions of Subsections 76-10-504(1)(a), (1)(b), and Section 76-10-505 do not apply to any person to whom a permit to carry a concealed firearm has been issued:

    (a) pursuant to Section 53-5-704; or

    (b) by another state or county.
    Even though this does not list 76-10-505.5 which is the school zone prohibition 76-10-505.5 does list this section as an exemption.


    Edit: added highlighting in federal statute.

  15. #15
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    UTOC-45-44 wrote:

    You can carry OC/CC inbars in Utah. You can even have a drink or two. The level is the same as DUI (.08). Of course this is not recommended but it's up to each individual.


    You can carry in Hospitals, Churches and schools. To carry at schools in Utah you need a Permit. So far as I know the LDS church is the only one that has told BCI (and BCI has added the info on their site) that you cannot carry in their Houses of Worship. If you do and get caught it's an infraction.

    You don't need a Permit to carry in a Church or Hospital.


    I carry everytime I go to bar. I carried tonight

    In Utah you can carry ANYWHERE except I would say where you see a metal detecor ie secured area such as beyond the detectors at the Airport or court houses.

    You can even OC/CC at the airport if you wanted to:celebrate.



    Just a couple of quick notes:

    1-At this time, the LDS Church is the only church to "give notice" of a gun ban via the BCI website. However, if a church uses other methods to "give notice" they are not required to notify BCI. Other notice includes a sign on the church or personal communication from a church official to you. So, if the pastor or deacon asks you to take your gun outside, not only do good manners require you honor their request, but so too does State law.

    The church gun ban applies ONLY to the interior of "houses of worship." It does not apply to parking lots, etc, so you are perfectly legal to leave a gun in your car parked in a church parking lot, even if a church has banned guns.

    2-Remember that national parks are (again) among the areas off limits under federal laws or rules. And we've got a LOT of national parks and a LOT of total acrerage of national parks here in Utah. We have a modest number of federal military installations that are off limits and some indian reservations that may have different rules if you venture off the main State/federal roads traversing them.

    3-(Responding to others' posters concerns about federal gun free school law): While I never want to be the test case, I'd be surprised to see the feds enforcing the federal gun free school law, and especially not against someone with a permit recognized in the State where the school is located. It is my opinion that having been overturned in Lopez and repassed with nary a change, the real value (to the federal gun haters) of the federal gun free school zone law is that most States will blindly adopt the same or similar laws which are not subject to the Lopez decision. To actually enforce the FGFSZL would be to risk having it overturned and then having a bunch of States drop their State GFSZL. I'd probably avoid OCing in a school zone on a reciprical permit. But neither would I worry too much about route planning or CCing either if one has a permit even if the feds might try to say that permit is not valid for their purposes. I just don't see that being likely in the near future. This is purely my opinion and is NOT legal advice.

    Charles
    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
    --Marxist.org

    "Communism and Anarchy [are], a necessary complement to one another. "
    --PETER KROPOTKIN, "Anarchism: its philosophy and ideal." 1898.

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